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[garrus and ashley fool]

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

I don't think Ashley being human is the reason. At least, it isn't one of my reasons. Out of my top six favorites, half of them are human - TIM, Kai Leng, and Zaeed. Zaeed's not even in my game, and he managed to become one of my favorites from youtube videos alone. Kasumi seems to be a character I would like and I think Jack is interesting, even though they aren't favorites of mine. Species has nothing to do with it.

i think it has something to do with it maybe not in your case but for other people they felt she was a boring normal human soilder
and this is a sci fi game they dont want to hear about humans

Of course it's a reason for some people, but I was talking about the majority. I think the main thing that people don't like about characters is their personality, especially personality traits that are annoying to them. That's mostly what I've seen on the forums.

i think that had something to do with her being human and i have seen alot of other reasons but mostly because she is human IMO

That's strange, we must have been reading different threads. Most of the reason's I've seen are those in GuardianAngel470's list. Either way, I don't think it's accurate to say that most of the people who don't like her character only think that way because she's human. That just sounds like it's dismissing all of the reasons why someone might not like her personality or her opinions, even if that wasn't the intent.

we probably were reading diffrent threads but i have to say despite her personality even though i liked it she was very loyal to you which is why i liked her actions more than her words

Modifié par garrus and ashley fool, 02 février 2011 - 06:47 .

[bjdbwea]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Ashley is perhaps the best written human squad member. Miranda is quite deep, and Kasumi is awesome, but Ashley just felt the most realistic, most human. She's just a completely normal soldier, with a happy family, and normal human emotions, both good and bad. I find her to be quite interesting, unlike Jacob - perhaps it's because I like poetry myself.

I completely agree. Furthermore, people should appreciate the great writing for Ashley regardless of whether they actually like or dislike her character for those emotions. I do not think that she's actually racist, but even if she were, it would be unrealistic to assume that such sentiments would not exist a few year years after humanity had actually met the first aliens, and especially after the events that happened in the Mass Effect universe. So the writers did a great job to portray these conflicting views in one of their characters. I for one also happen like the poetry and all the other conversations with her. They, like the conversations with most ME 1 characters, had a depth that I was mostly missing in ME 2.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 02 février 2011 - 07:06 .

[Kim Shepard]

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

we probably were reading diffrent threads but i have to say despite her personality even though i liked it she was very loyal to you which is why i liked her actions more than her words

Every squadmate shows a certain amount of loyalty just by working with Shepard. I don't see her as one of the most loyal after Horizon, or even before. In my opinion, some of her words and actions made it seem like Shepard could have trouble getting her to follow orders and remain civil. Fortunately, she did remain civil with my Shepard who disagreed with her all the time. I understand that a lot of people like those same conversations though. She's just not the type of character I like.

[rma2110]

I love Ashley. She strikes me as on of the best written and complex characters in the ME universe. I don't know why but Ashley just felt more real. She is not ant-alien, just cautious as a good soldier should be. Humans are the new kid on the galactic front and we can't expect the aliens to put human interests over their own. Ashley only said that she believed in a higher power and people act like she's some sort of crazy cultist zealot. Ashley never even specified her religion.



I can see why some people found her questions annoying. I thought is was BioWare trying to get a better feel for my Shepard. I was a little disapointed that it was not the case. If BioWare ever releases a DLC with Ashley or Kaidan then count me in!

[garrus and ashley fool]

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

we probably were reading diffrent threads but i have to say despite her personality even though i liked it she was very loyal to you which is why i liked her actions more than her words

Every squadmate shows a certain amount of loyalty just by working with Shepard. I don't see her as one of the most loyal after Horizon, or even before. In my opinion, some of her words and actions made it seem like Shepard could have trouble getting her to follow orders and remain civil. Fortunately, she did remain civil with my Shepard who disagreed with her all the time. I understand that a lot of people like those same conversations though. She's just not the type of character I like.

yea but she was the most loyal imo she backed up my choices and backed me up with wrex when everybody else was standing around
and i can understand her feelings on horizon he is gone for 2 years didnt talk to her when he got backed or anything and he is working with cerberus and she did send a message saying she was sorry for the way she acted and wanted to sort all that out but it was a good reason to me

Modifié par garrus and ashley fool, 02 février 2011 - 07:44 .

[GodWood]

Ash is one of my faves.

[Kim Shepard]

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

we probably were reading diffrent threads but i have to say despite her personality even though i liked it she was very loyal to you which is why i liked her actions more than her words

Every squadmate shows a certain amount of loyalty just by working with Shepard. I don't see her as one of the most loyal after Horizon, or even before. In my opinion, some of her words and actions made it seem like Shepard could have trouble getting her to follow orders and remain civil. Fortunately, she did remain civil with my Shepard who disagreed with her all the time. I understand that a lot of people like those same conversations though. She's just not the type of character I like.

yea but she was the most loyal imo she backed up my choices and backed me up with wrex when everybody else was standing around
and i can understand her feelings on horizon he is gone for 2 years didnt talk to her when he got backed or anything and he is working with cerberus and she did send a message saying she was sorry for the way she acted and wanted to sort all that out but it was a good reason to me

Our opinions are very different here. It's nice that Ashley was watching Shepard's back with Wrex, but I think Shepard was more than capable of stopping, or killing, Wrex if he/she chose to. It makes sense for her to shoot him if Shepard chooses the dialogue that encourages her, but if not, it's one of those cases that seemed to me like Shepard has to worry about her following orders.

About Horizon, I think it might have seemed more like a betrayal to the players who liked working with Cerberus than to those who didn't, but that's just a guess. In my playthroughs, the conversation was with Kaidan, but still had the same effect. A Shepard who doesn't want to work with Cerberus might be more likely to agree with them. I enjoyed having my Shepards work with TIM, so the conversation on Horizon didn't go well.

Also, Shepard didn't talk to Ashley/Kaidan for two years because Shepard was "mostly dead." xD It's a good excuse.

[garrus and ashley fool]

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

we probably were reading diffrent threads but i have to say despite her personality even though i liked it she was very loyal to you which is why i liked her actions more than her words

Every squadmate shows a certain amount of loyalty just by working with Shepard. I don't see her as one of the most loyal after Horizon, or even before. In my opinion, some of her words and actions made it seem like Shepard could have trouble getting her to follow orders and remain civil. Fortunately, she did remain civil with my Shepard who disagreed with her all the time. I understand that a lot of people like those same conversations though. She's just not the type of character I like.

yea but she was the most loyal imo she backed up my choices and backed me up with wrex when everybody else was standing around
and i can understand her feelings on horizon he is gone for 2 years didnt talk to her when he got backed or anything and he is working with cerberus and she did send a message saying she was sorry for the way she acted and wanted to sort all that out but it was a good reason to me

Our opinions are very different here. It's nice that Ashley was watching Shepard's back with Wrex, but I think Shepard was more than capable of stopping, or killing, Wrex if he/she chose to. It makes sense for her to shoot him if Shepard chooses the dialogue that encourages her, but if not, it's one of those cases that seemed to me like Shepard has to worry about her following orders.

About Horizon, I think it might have seemed more like a betrayal to the players who liked working with Cerberus than to those who didn't, but that's just a guess. In my playthroughs, the conversation was with Kaidan, but still had the same effect. A Shepard who doesn't want to work with Cerberus might be more likely to agree with them. I enjoyed having my Shepards work with TIM, so the conversation on Horizon didn't go well.

Also, Shepard didn't talk to Ashley/Kaidan for two years because Shepard was "mostly dead." xD It's a good excuse.

yeah but after he got backed from horizon he didnt go straight to her he did take his time gathering other people on his team he....... should have went to her 1st especially in mine with the whole romance thing

[Kim Shepard]

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

yeah but after he got backed from horizon he didnt go straight to her he did take his time gathering other people on his team he....... should have went to her 1st especially in mine with the whole romance thing

Shepard didn't go after Ashley/Kaidan because they refused to join when Shepard asked them to. They would just refuse again after Horizon because Shepard is still working with Cerberus.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

yeah but after he got backed from horizon he didnt go straight to her he did take his time gathering other people on his team he....... should have went to her 1st especially in mine with the whole romance thing

Shepard didn't go after Ashley/Kaidan because they refused to join when Shepard asked them to. They would just refuse again after Horizon because Shepard is still working with Cerberus.

Keep in mind too that Shepard's on a timeline.  Why waste your time trying to persuade someone you KNOW won't join instead of going after new squadmates you have a chance of persuading?

I happen to like Ash a lot, but I also like that she's a polarizing character.  The mark of a good character is one that people feel strongly about (on the character's own merits, not due to bad writing like...say...a certain set of scintillating undead ).  Everyone has an opinion on Ash.  That's a good thing.

[V-rex]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

She's prejudiced against aliens; she says it's against the Council, yet doesn't even trust Wrex or Tali, who are non-Council..

Actually at one point she expresses a desire to see improved relations between humans and Quarians due to Tali assisting them in going after Saren. I.e that some humans blame the Quarians about the Geth attack on Eden Prime and she's hoping that if people can see how Tali is helping to stop them, it'll change their minds on the Quarians.
It's a far cry from being 'anti alien' if you ask me.

As it stands, NO Ashley is NOT anti-alien. She never expresses genuine hatred, nor any idealogy of humans being the superior race. In fact at one point she says the total opposite of this. She's not a supremacist, she's a realist. She doesn't buy that the Council races will look out for humanities interests above their own, and that while humanity should turn them down as allies or mistreat them, they shouldn't bet everything on the aliens helping them out. Instead be prepared to go it alone just in case.
To me, this is the point of view from a cynical realist, not a member of the KKK like everyone else seems to deem her as. It honestly shocks me that the second Ashley expresses a genuine concern about alien foreign nationals aboard the Alliance Warship SSV Normandy, everyone calls her a skinhead wetdream.

Besides, of course, Ashley has reason for thinking the way she does. Lack of personal experience and very bad family history regarding the First Contact War that's haunted her career her whole life has lead her to having a very cynical outlook on life. Something of which, Shepard can convince her to change her mind about.
But even then she still happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team on Virmire and refuses to associate with Terra Firma who, by comparison, are actually genuienly racist and xenophobic.

So yes, basically the insane and crazy religious fundamental alien hating nutjob that everyone sees in Ashley is basically just of their own invention. They put dots together that weren't there or buried so deep that it was pointless even covering them up in the first place. I've spent literally months trying to convince people otherwise but it's to no avail. Ashley is a textbook victim of 'Ron the Death Eater'.
Some people will deny that there is a fire, even when their clothes are burning.

In any case, yes, I love Ashley. A genuine example of a strong and flawed and humanized character and if only people had given her more attention, instead of just harshly dismissing her, then maybe they'd see that.
Still, it's funny, we complain about the lack of flawed characters in video games then complain that the actual flawed characters aren't likeable.

Also as a side note, Wrex is awesome. I love having him on the team and he's a greatly popular character for a good reason. That said, I still understand why Ashley pulled the trigger. You don't have to be a 'racist' to see that Wrex was pointing the gun at Shepard and has just refused to negotiate, with that in mind it's safe to assume what might have come next had Ashley not stepped in.
Shepard had lowered his gun, Wrex clearly had the drop on him. One pulling of the tirgger and Shepard would have been no more. Hence, when negotiations failed , Ashley stepped in. Yes it was rash but it was also something I can't fault a soldier for doing.

Modifié par V-rex, 02 février 2011 - 09:13 .

[V-rex]

Double Post.

[garrus and ashley fool]

Kim Shepard wrote...

garrus and ashley fool wrote...

yeah but after he got backed from horizon he didnt go straight to her he did take his time gathering other people on his team he....... should have went to her 1st especially in mine with the whole romance thing

Shepard didn't go after Ashley/Kaidan because they refused to join when Shepard asked them to. They would just refuse again after Horizon because Shepard is still working with Cerberus.

yes but still he did not go after them when he found out that he was ok and ashley is a very loyal character she had loyalties to the alliance before shepard or anybody its hard to leave that behind especially since it is cerberus

[lawp79]

I agree with whatever V-rex says in regards to Ashley, his understanding of her character and writing is far more eloquent than I could ever wish to be.

[lawp79]

ooops double post

Modifié par lawp79, 02 février 2011 - 10:11 .

[garrus and ashley fool]

lawp79 wrote...

I agree with whatever V-rex says in regards to Ashley, his understanding of her character and writing is far more eloquent than I could ever wish to be.

i as well agreed with him and realizing ashley made a good choice on virmire despite him liking wrex