110 réponses à ce sujet

[implodinggoat]

Evilsod wrote...

I decided to try the Revenant on my last playthrough. Sure its fun to begin with but after a while i just got bored of the endless spray n pray. No way was it accurate enough at mid range to out damage a Vindicator or Mattock, even without AR. Its only real advantage was that it would seem to have an endless supply of ammo whereas you could burn through the Mattock quite easily.

I personally consider the Revenant to be a situational weapon.  If you're taking on any sort of enemy who like to charge your position its magnificent; but against enemies that like to hold back and take cover you're better off with a Vindicator or Mattock.

Granted you can always charge your enemies to get within the Revenant's sweet spot; but if you're doing that you might as well charge a little farther and whip out your shotty.

Schneidend wrote...

Well, it's basically been proven that Mattock beats Revenant in raw DPS when fired at maximum RPMs. I'm not
arguing that. Then again, the Mattock is absurdly overpowered, so I tend to take accounts of its performance with a grain of salt. It's a crutch that takes less effort to use than the Revenant and the Vindicator.

I do agree that the Mattock is overpowered; but not ridiculously so.

I kind of view the Revenant as the baseline of how powerful an Assault Rifle should be (I also don't think that Advanced Training should be used to unlock specific guns, just training for an entire weapon class).  I'm not saying every gun should have as much DPS as a Revenant; but when you consider the combination of accuraccy, recoil, ammo efficiency, and DPS they should all be a viable alternative particularly in a situation which plays to the gun's strengths.

In my opinion the Mattock should have the amount of ammo it picks up per thermal clip reduced by around 20 to 30% while the Vindicator should have its max ammo increased by two clips and the amount of ammo it picks up increased by 20 to 30% that way the Mattock would have its greater power against bullet sponge enemies mitigated by the fact that it truly would be the most ammo thirsty assault rifle while the Vindicator's greater ammo efficiency would once again make it a viable choice since its inability to rapidly down elite enemies like the Mattock would be offset by making it a more efficient gun for dropping numerous low level enemies in cover.

PS:  Likewise I also think all the other guns in the game should be balanced so that no gun is ever rendered obsolete by another gun in the same class.  Every gun should have strengths and weaknesses with the most devestating guns like the Mattock and Revenant being more specialized and balanced by having the most severe drawbacks (ammo in the case of the Mattock, accuraccy in the case of the Revenant) compared to more balanced and less specialized alternatives.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 04 février 2011 - 05:29 .

[padaE]

I think any power that you would max is a waste. So, as has already been said, pick a power with a 3 sec cooldown that can stop enemys is really the only suitable choice I can imagine for a bonus power.

.

I keep concussive shot with 1 point just as a matter of preference, because if you think about it it's not a good choice, as it has a 6 sec cooldown and don't get benefits from upgrades. It's cool though.

.

Just to finish, I would pick Neural Shock with only 1 point on it. With Slam as a second choice.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

lol, this thread has quickly turned into a "how to best use your Assault Rifle" thread.. let's try to get it back on topic - even though really, with the Soldier, I guess it always comes back to what weapons you have.

padaE wrote...

I think any power that you would max is a waste. So, as has already been said, pick a power with a 3 sec cooldown that can stop enemys is really the only suitable choice I can imagine for a bonus power.

IMO, Flashbang Grenade is best at lvl1 and lvl4, so it can be a sometimes-exception to the rule. However, its 6s cooldown means its not ideal as a cqc power for the Soldier (though I think it's workable for engineers / infiltrators).

Stasis, Neural Shock and Slam are all excellent for point-blank, high tempo fighting.

[GMulryan]

implodinggoat wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

The Revenant can be used like the Mattock or Vindicator when necessary if you either fire in bursts (easier, but not as powerful) or control your muzzle climb (harder, deadlier) or are in the midst of an Adrenaline Rush. It doesn't have the long-range effectiveness of those guns, but its mid-range game is just as powerful as the Mattock/Vindicator, if not more so.

Nah dude the Revenant can't compete with the Vindicator at medium range particularly when your enemies are taking cover and at medium range the Mattock is in a completely different league. 

With a Mattock at medium range I can rapidly pulse the trigger and lay down nearly an entire clip of headshots on a Krogan during the course of a single Heightened Adrenaline Rush.  In other words I can take down a Krogan in 1.5 seconds and he'll never stand a chance of getting close enough to even scratch me with his shotgun, the Revenant can't touch that.

I'm not saying the Revenant isn't a beast of a weapon, it is; but unless you're firing at something as big as the broadside of a barn (YMIRs, Praetorians, etc.) you really need to get in pretty close to make the most of it.

Mattock and vindicator are single target weapons with cover close by, have your Heightened AR up and ready.

The Rev is for aggressive play, move forward at the targets, using AR inbetween. Learn to strafe, move and shoot.

[spirosz]

Flashbang, Neural Shock, Statis. Depends on what you like.

[Evilsod]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

IMO, Flashbang Grenade is best at lvl1 and lvl4, so it can be a sometimes-exception to the rule. However, its 6s cooldown means its not ideal as a cqc power for the Soldier (though I think it's workable for engineers / infiltrators).

Stasis, Neural Shock and Slam are all excellent for point-blank, high tempo fighting.

Stasis is broken so i'll ignore it.

Neural Shock has nowhere near the range of Flashbang Grenade though. Its worth those 3 extra seconds cooldown (NS is 3s recharge isnt it?) for the gigantic 9m radius and long incapacitate duration if you bring teammates to strip protection so it'll have the best effect. If you incapacitate enough you should have no problem killing off the ones who weren't or got knocked into the open before the rest get up even without Adren Rush, and since the enemies have to get up too you should have plenty of time to recharge.

Why would anyone use Slam?

[ryoldschool]

Slam on Soldier - I use slam on soldier on Horizon and Reaper IFF to instant kill ( once you get the armor off ) husks. Neural shock works also, same reason. Outside of that its hard to argue that AR isn't the best use of a cooldown ( I usually take AP ammo for bonus because of this ).

[Praetor Knight]

Evilsod wrote...

Why would anyone use Slam?

I've used it to stagger charging enemies for a moment or disable unprotected enemies as I reload, but that is very situational.

It is also a good power to throw off unprotected enemies when you are on top of the SB Ship and stagger the Shadow Broker, to make that fight go faster.

And with a 3 sec cool down it does not slow down the pace of combat.

[Crackseed]

Started a new soldier playthrough last night and going Heightened AR/Flashbang/Inferno - so far it's been damn fun w/o any deaths despite some aggressive rushing on my part. Flashbang to open and then scooting in and using the Eviscerator after spending some time with the Mattock/Incisor at range to soften up.

Just curious though - which Soldier sub-spec do folks prefer? I pretty much always pick Commando, though the "faster" alignment building and quicker cooldown recharge is always tempting too hah

Modifié par crackseed, 04 février 2011 - 06:44 .

[jwalker]

Evilsod wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

IMO, Flashbang Grenade is best at lvl1 and lvl4, so it can be a sometimes-exception to the rule. However, its 6s cooldown means its not ideal as a cqc power for the Soldier (though I think it's workable for engineers / infiltrators).

Stasis, Neural Shock and Slam are all excellent for point-blank, high tempo fighting.

Stasis is broken so i'll ignore it.

Neural Shock has nowhere near the range of Flashbang Grenade though. Its worth those 3 extra seconds cooldown (NS is 3s recharge isnt it?) for the gigantic 9m radius and long incapacitate duration if you bring teammates to strip protection so it'll have the best effect. If you incapacitate enough you should have no problem killing off the ones who weren't or got knocked into the open before the rest get up even without Adren Rush, and since the enemies have to get up too you should have plenty of time to recharge.

Why would anyone use Slam?

Stasis, as far as I know, is only bugged when it comes to the huge damage boost you have during the brief moment is wearing off. Other than that, it works as intended. It's really easy to avoid that exploit.

Neural Shock with upgrades will be a bit less than 3secs. Flashbang Granades is a combat power so no benefits from upgrades. How long is it on Shepard ? 6 or 9 secs ?

Also, Flashbang Granades are bugged when cast on Harby. They shouldn't render the guy useless for the entire fight, just for a few seconds

If I play Soldier again, I'll take NS.

[Evilsod]

jwalker wrote...

Stasis, as far as I know, is only bugged when it comes to the huge damage boost you have during the brief moment is wearing off. Other than that, it works as intended. It's really easy to avoid that exploit.

Neural Shock with upgrades will be a bit less than 3secs. Flashbang Granades is a combat power so no benefits from upgrades. How long is it on Shepard ? 6 or 9 secs ?

Also, Flashbang Granades are bugged when cast on Harby. They shouldn't render the guy useless for the entire fight, just for a few seconds

If I play Soldier again, I'll take NS.

It effects almost every non-super boss enemy in the game. Works regardless of protection. Makes the enemy collapse to the ground and have to get back up. Even without the damage boost bug, its broken. Unless you want to tell me the Adept is perfectly balanced as he is then prove yourself a hypocrite by saying Stasis is fine.

But how often do you need to incapacitate a single enemy? And be in a situation where you can't either shoot it with AR or have squad members CC it. Early game i can see how it would be handy to have a point in as you'd be more vunerable, but once you've got a few upgrades and levels under your belt i'd see more use from a large AoE CC.
Assuming you used either of course.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Evilsod wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

IMO, Flashbang Grenade is best at lvl1 and lvl4, so it can be a sometimes-exception to the rule. However, its 6s cooldown means its not ideal as a cqc power for the Soldier (though I think it's workable for engineers / infiltrators).

Stasis, Neural Shock and Slam are all excellent for point-blank, high tempo fighting.

Stasis is broken so i'll ignore it.

Neural Shock has nowhere near the range of Flashbang Grenade though. Its worth those 3 extra seconds cooldown (NS is 3s recharge isnt it?) for the gigantic 9m radius and long incapacitate duration if you bring teammates to strip protection so it'll have the best effect. If you incapacitate enough you should have no problem killing off the ones who weren't or got knocked into the open before the rest get up even without Adren Rush, and since the enemies have to get up too you should have plenty of time to recharge.

Why would anyone use Slam?

Flashbangs are 'broken' too, in that they go through defenses and completely hose certain enemies. The only 'drawback' is that you have to actually throw a grenade and then wait for it to work. This casting time is perfectly fine at medium range (and medium range closing into short range), but at close range, it is sometimes too slow. Also, the 6s cooldown means that if you are throwing a flashbang, you will not be casting AR in the same engagement. This in no way means that Flashbangs are bad, but it shows why the quick-cooldown, quick-cast powers have an appeal.

Slam is extremely versatile as a 1 point power. It staggers protected enemies, ragdolls unprotected enemies, instakills husks, sets up instant warp combos and combos with squadmates' pull & throw. It ragdolls faster than Stasis and unlike NS, it handles synthetics. Most importantly, it is projectile-less and has a 3s cooldown.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 04 février 2011 - 08:23 .

[jwalker]

Evilsod wrote...

jwalker wrote...

Stasis, as far as I know, is only bugged when it comes to the huge damage boost you have during the brief moment is wearing off. Other than that, it works as intended. It's really easy to avoid that exploit.

Neural Shock with upgrades will be a bit less than 3secs. Flashbang Granades is a combat power so no benefits from upgrades. How long is it on Shepard ? 6 or 9 secs ?

Also, Flashbang Granades are bugged when cast on Harby. They shouldn't render the guy useless for the entire fight, just for a few seconds

If I play Soldier again, I'll take NS.

It effects almost every non-super boss enemy in the game. Works regardless of protection. Makes the enemy collapse to the ground and have to get back up. Even without the damage boost bug, its broken. Unless you want to tell me the Adept is perfectly balanced as he is then prove yourself a hypocrite by saying Stasis is fine.

[..]

Whoa.... easy there, boy....

And there's already one Adept hate thread going. No need to derail this one.

[mokponobi]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Evilsod wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

IMO, Flashbang Grenade is best at lvl1 and lvl4, so it can be a sometimes-exception to the rule. However, its 6s cooldown means its not ideal as a cqc power for the Soldier (though I think it's workable for engineers / infiltrators).

Stasis, Neural Shock and Slam are all excellent for point-blank, high tempo fighting.

Stasis is broken so i'll ignore it.

Neural Shock has nowhere near the range of Flashbang Grenade though. Its worth those 3 extra seconds cooldown (NS is 3s recharge isnt it?) for the gigantic 9m radius and long incapacitate duration if you bring teammates to strip protection so it'll have the best effect. If you incapacitate enough you should have no problem killing off the ones who weren't or got knocked into the open before the rest get up even without Adren Rush, and since the enemies have to get up too you should have plenty of time to recharge.

Why would anyone use Slam?

Flashbangs are 'broken' too, in that they go through defenses and completely hose certain enemies. The only 'drawback' is that you have to actually throw a grenade and then wait for it to work. This casting time is perfectly fine at medium range (and medium range closing into short range), but at close range, it is sometimes too slow. Also, the 6s cooldown means that if you are throwing a flashbang, you will not be casting AR in the same engagement. This in no way means that Flashbangs are bad, but it shows why the quick-cooldown, quick-cast powers have an appeal.

Slam is extremely versatile as a 1 point power. It staggers protected enemies, ragdolls unprotected enemies, instakills husks, sets up instant warp combos and combos with squadmates' pull & throw. It ragdolls faster than Stasis and unlike NS, it handles synthetics. Most importantly, it is projectile-less and has a 3s cooldown.

This

Slam has so many good things going for it, that for me, unless I want something completely non-biotic, it has the best usage for reasons stated in the above post.

[Granville8]

I liked using Slam as a one point wonder for my soldier because of the three second timer and the ability to chain off Miranda or Thane's Warp. Now I use stasis as my one point wonder because of the exploit on insanity where enemies can take a horrid amount of damage while on the floor.



Make no mistake though. When I start a mission, I stick Heavy Disruptor Ammo on my Widow, Inferno Ammo on every other weapon (most important, the Mattock) and Squad Cyro Ammo on Thane and Miranda's gear. (Equip them with Tempest machine guns for automatic fire and more freezing -not- the Locust and give Thane an Incisor Sniper Rifle, it does more damage than legion with a Widow.) Then the mission consists of me spamming AR 99.9% of the time.

[Evilsod]

jwalker wrote...


Whoa.... easy there, boy....

And there's already one Adept hate thread going. No need to derail this one.

I think you need to spot the difference between Adept hate and Stasis hate...

Stasis is broken in all the ways the original Adept from ME1 was. Regardless of your opinions on the Adept in ME2, Stasis is a return to the 'bad old ways'.

[implodinggoat]

Evilsod wrote...

I think you need to spot the difference between Adept hate and Stasis hate...

Stasis is broken in all the ways the original Adept from ME1 was. Regardless of your opinions on the Adept in ME2, Stasis is a return to the 'bad old ways'.

Aside from the fact that stasis is buggy against some enemies and the fact that the damage multiplier that renders it an offensive power as well as a crowd control power, what's your problem with it?

Personally I think adding a biotic power which can incapacitate; but not damage enemies with protection is a good concept.  As is the power needs tweaking; but if the damage multiplier were removed and the buggy effects it has on certain enemies were ironed out I think it would be a really good power.

I particularly liked the balance of powers it gave Liara in LOTSB who struck me as having the most entertaining set of powers of any squadmate.   Warp gave her a good utilitarian direct damage power, singularity gave her a powerful crowd control ability with a long cooldown that made her feel like a powerful adept should and stasis gave her a very versatile ability for dealing with shielded enemies.

[Evilsod]

implodinggoat wrote...

Evilsod wrote...

I think you need to spot the difference between Adept hate and Stasis hate...

Stasis is broken in all the ways the original Adept from ME1 was. Regardless of your opinions on the Adept in ME2, Stasis is a return to the 'bad old ways'.

Aside from the fact that stasis is buggy against some enemies and the fact that the damage multiplier that renders it an offensive power as well as a crowd control power, what's your problem with it?

Personally I think adding a biotic power which can incapacitate; but not damage enemies with protection is a good concept.  As is the power needs tweaking; but if the damage multiplier were removed and the buggy effects it has on certain enemies were ironed out I think it would be a really good power.

I particularly liked the balance of powers it gave Liara in LOTSB who struck me as having the most entertaining set of powers of any squadmate.   Warp gave her a good utilitarian direct damage power, singularity gave her a powerful crowd control ability with a long cooldown that made her feel like a powerful adept should and stasis gave her a very versatile ability for dealing with shielded enemies.

The fact that it works against almost anything? The fact you can use it repeatadly against the same target? The fact the enemy then crumbles to the ground like a ragdoll (not exactly a problem vs the bog standard stuff but because it works against stuff like Scions, YMIRs and bosses its a problem)?

Hell on the collector ship you can use it to instagib both Scions because they stay still while the platform keeps going. You could use it to permanently remove a Scion or YMIR from battle which turns a deadly encounter into a trivial 1 while you deal with the rest of the enemies before turning back to the 'elite' unit.

This isn't about Liara or the Shadow Broker, its about the rest of the game.

[implodinggoat]

Yeah I've never picked Stasis as a bonus power, I just enjoyed using it during LOTSB.

If they fixed it I do think it should still work against anything except for bosses much like the combat drone; but its power does need to be scaled back.

How about this for a fix?

1:  When Stasis wears off enemies don't collapse and they immediately resume attacking you (as in ME1 ) and since they don't collapse they also aren't effected by any damage multiplier.

2:  As opposed to the way you can spam it over and over again its revised for ME3 so that...

At Rank 1: Stasis has a 5 second duration and you can only use it once before an enemy becomes immune.
 
At Rank 2: Stasis can still only be used once before an enemy becomes immune; but duration is 7 seconds.

At Rank 3:  You can use stasis twice on the same enemy before they become immune, once with a duration of 7 seconds and once with a duration of 3 seconds.

At Rank 4 you can choose between...
  
      Enhanced Stasis: Which lets you use it three times on the same enemy once with a duration of 7
      seconds, once with a duration of 5 seconds, and once with a duration of 3 seconds.
Or...     
      Area Stasis: Which has a 3 meter area of effect radius and lets you use it twice on the same enemy once for 7
      seconds and once for 3 seconds.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        PS:  On a side note, I actually think the insant kill effect it has on the Scions in the Collector ship is kind of neat.  Its a unique and different way to use the ability and so long as there are only a few opportunities to exploit the power in that way I don't really think its a gamebreaker and hence the entertainment value of watching a Scion get frozen in place then drop like a stone is worth it.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 05 février 2011 - 01:52 .

[thepiebaker]

rma2110 wrote...

I'm thinking Warp ammo. Heavy. Is disruptor batter? Maybe ai should opt for a shield power like barrier or fortification since the soldier already has disruptor. What say you my more tacticallly minded freinds?

i always role my soldier with GSB, the key for a soldier with the revenant is to lay supressive fire. GSB, barrier, and fortification allows the soldier to do so for longer intervals. i would never have beaten my frist runthrough of overlord, which was on insanity without it since i couldnt find any place to take cover where i wasnt quickly flanked in that final battle

[ezrafetch]

Depends. If you don't spring for an Ammo Power, I'd stick with a 3s power like Slam or Neural Shock. But in general anything with a cooldown of longer than 3s interferes with AR goodness. I only ever use Slam/Neural Shock on Husk levels anyways to insta-kill them. All a Soldier needs is AR and a good set of reflexes. Seriously.

[Kronner]

ezrafetch wrote...

Depends. If you don't spring for an Ammo Power, I'd stick with a 3s power like Slam or Neural Shock. But in general anything with a cooldown of longer than 3s interferes with AR goodness. I only ever use Slam/Neural Shock on Husk levels anyways to insta-kill them. All a Soldier needs is AR and a good set of reflexes. Seriously.

You don't even need good reflexes as a Soldier. Seriously, my grandma could easily play through the game by just spamming AR

Modifié par Kronner, 06 février 2011 - 05:18 .

[SpezXVII]

Kronner wrote...

ezrafetch wrote...

Depends. If you don't spring for an Ammo Power, I'd stick with a 3s power like Slam or Neural Shock. But in general anything with a cooldown of longer than 3s interferes with AR goodness. I only ever use Slam/Neural Shock on Husk levels anyways to insta-kill them. All a Soldier needs is AR and a good set of reflexes. Seriously.

You don't even need good reflexes as a Soldier. Seriously, my grandma could easily play through the game by just spamming AR

You're spot on. If you just spam AR like you should as a Soldier, the time dilation is more than enough to correct for any poor aiming.

[Atmosfear3]

None but if you must, take warp ammo and dump no points into it until you face collector missions. Inferno ammo and Disruptor is all you need for just about the entire game.

[HWM Sarge]

 I'd say go with Flashbang grenade. It's got a huge knockdown area, and instantly kills husks. It's a one point wonder for the soldier or engineer.