200 réponses à ce sujet

[Blastback]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

When will some of the more hardcore fans get over the fact that most likely you won't play as the warden ever again?

I wouldn't say it's 'likely' that the Warden won't be returning, I'd say it's a certainty. Not only do I think a voiced protagonist is a step-up from the silent Terminator that was the PC, I also think BioWare would never again develop something like Awakening. [Insert threat that I won't be buying.] Considering the popularity of Mass Effect I should think that both BioWare and the suits from EA know quite clearly where they want to take their franchises.

Let's not forget that Dragon Age Origins is Bioware's most succesful game.  While no doubt a fair part of this due to the fact that Origins was released on all three platforms at once, I don't  think it is a sure bet by any means that Mass Effect is truely the more popular franchise.

Also, what part of Awakening was it you hated?  While I agree that it was flawed, it had plenty of potential, and was still good fun.

Mainly the 'undo certain decisions' part, then the fact that one of the companions would have to be left in the dark, depending on which of the three main quests you decided to follow last and then there's the companion approval system, which I think was a big mistake, but hopefully the lessons have been learned.

Of course there are a bunch of other stuff, but those are of the rank of regular stuff I use to criticize in every game.

Okay, for a minute I was wondering if you were critisising the idea of future expansions instead of just DLC.  Scared me.

[Gabriel S.]

Blastback wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

When will some of the more hardcore fans get over the fact that most likely you won't play as the warden ever again?

I wouldn't say it's 'likely' that the Warden won't be returning, I'd say it's a certainty. Not only do I think a voiced protagonist is a step-up from the silent Terminator that was the PC, I also think BioWare would never again develop something like Awakening. [Insert threat that I won't be buying.] Considering the popularity of Mass Effect I should think that both BioWare and the suits from EA know quite clearly where they want to take their franchises.

Let's not forget that Dragon Age Origins is Bioware's most succesful game.  While no doubt a fair part of this due to the fact that Origins was released on all three platforms at once, I don't  think it is a sure bet by any means that Mass Effect is truely the more popular franchise.

Also, what part of Awakening was it you hated?  While I agree that it was flawed, it had plenty of potential, and was still good fun.

Mainly the 'undo certain decisions' part, then the fact that one of the companions would have to be left in the dark, depending on which of the three main quests you decided to follow last and then there's the companion approval system, which I think was a big mistake, but hopefully the lessons have been learned.

Of course there are a bunch of other stuff, but those are of the rank of regular stuff I use to criticize in every game.

Okay, for a minute I was wondering if you were critisising the idea of future expansions instead of just DLC.  Scared me.

:unsure:Umm... actually I'm against both.

*For Dragon Age Origins/Awakening, mind you.
**I've yet to see what the critics say about DA2 DLC.

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 03 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[astreqwerty]

ill miss the (silent)warden because he represents a whole era of rpg gaming..that being said im ready to move onto new ideas and concepts

[Gabriel S.]

astreqwerty wrote...

ill miss the (silent)warden because he represents a whole era of rpg gaming..that being said im ready to move onto new ideas and concepts

Heh, ditto.

[Juggernaught203]

We should just wait for the game to actually release, imho... As long as they aren't going to reduce the game length to Fable proportions and mess up the gameplay itself too much I guess i'm happy enough.
Maybe we'll actually all love DA2, or maybe we'll turn into an angry mob with torches and pitchforks. Can't really tell as long as the game isn't out.

Granted, i'm sceptic myself about the voiced chars (hated it in Fable 3 for example), reduced gear for your party, and the idea that they cut the length of the game myself, but i'll just wait and see. Remember that simplicity isn't always improvement... I'm still contemplating whether i'll actually pre-order the game, or just wait for a demo, or even 'till a week or two after the initial release to see and read the reception/reviews at this point.
All these things are a lot more important to me then whether or not my character from the original game is in it...

[Khayness]

When will other people with different opinions get over tha fact that I have other opinion?

Awesome thread.

[Dayshadow]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Whatever "core fans" (whatever that might mean) were lost was more than made up for by all the new players who become the new "core fans." Sometimes we are going to move in a direction that fans of previous games disagree with, and that's fine.

Translation: "Screw you whinny ****es. We don't need you!"

 I like it.

Modifié par Dayshadow, 03 février 2011 - 02:04 .

[Monica83]

I don't like it a perfect example of lack of respect and a bad example for a serious company

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
But what if the people who like Origins get turned off by all the changes and dont bother to come back for part 3?

What if the people who like Origins love the changes and buy part 3 by the boatload? Either outcome is just as likely based on zero evidence and supposition.

They are alienating alot of their core fans with these moves, if you are on any other game forums other than this one, most people that post dislike the changes and think it looks really bad, those are likely customers that wont come back.

If we go by Mass Effect, the second part was loads more popular than the first. Whatever "core fans" (whatever that might mean) were lost was more than made up for by all the new players who become the new "core fans." Sometimes we are going to move in a direction that fans of previous games disagree with, and that's fine. Our games cannot be everything to everyone. We just hope that maybe, if you don't like this game, you'll try out the next one.

I hope you are right, but its doubtful they will go back to the Origins style of game.

that is likey, since another Origins type game would take a long time to produce and very expensive.

All I got out of this was proof from the proverbial horse's mouth that you guys are chasing money/the X-bro crowd.

Thank you. Thank you for making a "spiritual successor" to my favourite game series, and then completely dumping me and people like me with the sequel (and, from the sounds of your comment, all sequels to come).

I guess it was good while it lasted. I don't own any consoles, and have no plans to, so it looks like my options for games keeps getting slimmer. Dragon Age was the first Bioware game I bought since Neverwinter Nights, and might be my last (unless some amazing reviews and footage comes out for DA2 showing that it isn't the turd it looks to be so far).

Oh, screw you too.

[Monica83]

im with you brother

[GreenSoda]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

All I got out of this was proof from the proverbial horse's mouth that you guys are chasing money/the X-bro crowd.

Thank you. Thank you for making a "spiritual successor" to my favourite game series, and then completely dumping me and people like me with the sequel (and, from the sounds of your comment, all sequels to come).

I guess it was good while it lasted. I don't own any consoles, and have no plans to, so it looks like my options for games keeps getting slimmer. Dragon Age was the first Bioware game I bought since Neverwinter Nights, and might be my last (unless some amazing reviews and footage comes out for DA2 showing that it isn't the turd it looks to be so far).

Oh, screw you too.

Making money is their job. DA:O obviously didn't hit the right ratio between time/resources invested and money earned. You can't really blame them to adapt to the market. If we the costumers don't value long and epic RPGs it's not all together surprising that BW goes for the cheaper to make shorter and easy to digest mainstream RPGs for it's sequels.

It's really just as much our fault as it is theirs. I'm just hoping they'll get ME3 out the door before they feel the need to include multiplayer in all of their future games to further cater to the short-attention-span-modern gamer.

Modifié par GreenSoda, 03 février 2011 - 03:18 .

[Monica83]

Ok Green but there are some manners to bring changes and this manner is the bad one.. They don't only change the direction of the game they also ****** off their old fun something like:



Hey thank you to made we rich now you can go home we don't need you....



This is a nice example of bad acting and its horrible to see it done by a past serious company like bioware just watch the chaos they maded with the fake demo release..



But im not surprise after all i know how EA act i just whaited and see and my concerns are become truth

The funny thing is they think to be different..

[LdyShayna]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I hope you are right, but its doubtful they will go back to the Origins style of game.

that is likey, since another Origins type game would take a long time to produce and very expensive.

Oh.  Well.  Thanks for letting us know.

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, I think I'm probably about as hardcore as Brockololly, and I'd also say what I want to happen is the polar opposite of what he does.

So I don't think "hardcore fans" really gets at the heart of the issue.

I'd echo that sentiment. But this goes back to labelling and dividing the fanbase, etc.

[upsettingshorts]

I'm confused by the anger. Bioware's not a charity, it does not make games for a specific group of people. It makes games. Some people buy them, some don't. That's how it works and it's how it's always worked.

If DA2 isn't your kind of game, fine, don't buy it. But the rage that they somehow owed you your kind of game and not producing it is a personal/unprofessional slap in the face is... weird. 
 
Edit:  Stan Woo didn't say anything in this thread that doesn't come off to me as self-evident.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 février 2011 - 03:44 .

[In Exile]

Il Divo wrote...
I think this is my exact issue too. The Calling, as a final dlc, was such a great idea. The lore behind it was solid, Bioware gets to close off the story of our Warden conclusively, with minimal design costs (since you are just killing darkspawn), and with maximum fan satisfaction (probably). It would have been a perfect ending dlc,  especially since our final fate was implied by Alistair.

No, it would be a terrible ending, because **** the Wardens as an order. My PC wouldn't actually bother following their orders or their tradition. If there was going to be some toxic death by darkspawn taint, my PC would be off dying like  a sick person and not caring about their order. But the thing with DLC like that is that it ''happens'' in game whether or not you play it, so it becomes part of the official timeline of the character.

This is why just removing the Warden is a good idea. Shepard you can keep bringing back because Shepard never beat his enemy, the reapers. But after the reapers... my Shepard's motivation isn't your Shepard's motivation, and this is where Bioware starts to break characters.

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I'm confused by the anger. Bioware's not a charity, it does not make games for a specific group of people. It makes games. Some people buy them, some don't. That's how it works and it's how it's always worked.

If DA2 isn't your kind of game, fine, don't buy it. But the rage that they somehow owed you your kind of game and not producing it is a personal/unprofessional slap in the face is... weird. 


Edit:  Stan Woo didn't say anything in this thread that
doesn't come off to me as self-evident.

Bioware was also never a niche company. They always aimed to get the greatest sales possible given the restrictions of what they worked under, but back when BG came out RPGs weren't niche (IMO that was reserved for genres like flight sims).

I think people want to feel special, and so you hear the ''you'll faill without me!'' line that gets bandied about. It isn't changing features that will kill a company, but making a crap game.

Modifié par In Exile, 03 février 2011 - 03:50 .

[WilliamShatner]

Stanley Woo wrote...


If we go by Mass Effect, the second part was loads more popular than the first. Whatever "core fans" (whatever that might mean) were lost was more than made up for by all the new players who become the new "core fans." Sometimes we are going to move in a direction that fans of previous games disagree with, and that's fine. Our games cannot be everything to everyone. We just hope that maybe, if you don't like this game, you'll try out the next one.

You can keep telling youself that but it won't become true.

Example,  At the time Batman Forever was far more popular with the mainstream than Batman Returns at the expense of the "hardcore fans".  Now look at the franchise.

Time makes fools of us all.

Except me.  I've got time's number.

[upsettingshorts]

Batman Forever and Batman and Robin were also terrible.

Batman Begins is wildly different than Batman Returns, yet both are commercial and critical successes.

It's like In Exile says, changing up the features doesn't kill a company. Making crap games does.

Some people are going to prefer DAO or even older games to DA2. Other people are goin to prefer DA2. As long as the latter number is greater than or equal to the former, then that's all Woo is saying. The fact that the former number may have people in it who go so far as to claim that, objectively, the changes made in DA2 make it a bad game, that's just the kind of egoism that's typical of the BSN.

[David Gaider]

WilliamShatner wrote...
You can keep telling youself that but it won't become true.

Example,  At the time Batman Forever was far more popular with the mainstream than Batman Returns at the expense of the "hardcore fans".  Now look at the franchise.

Time makes fools of us all.

Except me.  I've got time's number.

So... let's see. DAO was Batman Returns in this scenario? And DA2 is Batman Forever? We put nipples on the batsuit?

Sometimes fans can be myopic idiots. Sometimes creators can also be myopic idiots, but really... at the end of the day it's our risk to take, not yours.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
 The fact that the former number may have people in it who go so far as to claim that, objectively, the changes made in DA2 make it a bad game, that's just the kind of egoism that's typical of the BSN.

But... there's so many people right here who dislike the changes! How can you argue with the fact that a whole bunch of people who loved DAO enough to hang out on its forums day in and day out, and all the DA2 fans who don't necessarily exist yet and thus their stupid opinions don't count, doesn't qualify as objective observation of the clear reaction that is awaiting a game most people haven't seen yet? I mean, look at the forums prior to DAO's release. That was pure presentience, right there.

Modifié par David Gaider, 03 février 2011 - 03:56 .

[In Exile]

WilliamShatner wrote...

You can keep telling youself that but it won't become true.

Example,  At the time Batman Forever was far more popular with the mainstream than Batman Returns at the expense of the "hardcore fans".  Now look at the franchise.

Time makes fools of us all.

Except me.  I've got time's number.

Yeah  - Batman and Robin happened, and that movie was a special kind of crap. Like I said: it isn't the ''hardcore'' fan that is going to alter where a product is going, but the quality of it.

[JediHealerCosmin]

David Gaider wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
You can keep telling youself that but it won't become true.

Example,  At the time Batman Forever was far more popular with the mainstream than Batman Returns at the expense of the "hardcore fans".  Now look at the franchise.

Time makes fools of us all.

Except me.  I've got time's number.

So... let's see. DAO was Batman Returns in this scenario? And DA2 is Batman Forever? We put nipples on the batsuit?

Sometimes fans can be myopic idiots. Sometimes creators can also be myopic idiots, but really... at the end of the day it's our risk to take, not yours.

Well we all know what horrible movie followed in the series so let's not go too deep into this comparison 

[upsettingshorts]

David Gaider wrote...

So... let's see. DAO was Batman Returns in this scenario? And DA2 is Batman Forever? We put nipples on the batsuit?

Nipples on the Batsuit is Batman and Robin I think.

You made Val Kilmer Batman.  Love the casting of Nicole Kidman as the love interest though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 février 2011 - 03:54 .

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

, but really... at the end of the day it's our risk to take, not yours.

Throw caution to the wind, run head-long into danger and sod the consequences. I can respect that.

Modifié par FieryDove, 03 février 2011 - 03:55 .

[LdyShayna]

In Exile wrote...
I think people want to feel special, and so you hear the ''you'll faill without me!'' line that gets bandied about. It isn't changing features that will kill a company, but making a crap game.

Please.  It's because people are frustrated that the types of games they like - games that sold millions of copies and made BioWare a well known name in gaming - are suddenly not being made.  At all.  And apparently never again.  They are shifting to make entirely different types of games and it's utterly frustrating.  And the only , ONLY acceptable argument to make (as has been made clear repeatedly) is whether that will make them finacially successful or not, so OF COURSE people are going to focus on whether or not this is a wise move and and try to claim their position as the one that makes sense in pursuing for financial success.

I'm done, though.  Even if I do buy more of their games on a lark, it's clear that I'm part of an audience they are fine with leaving behind.  So...yeah.  Whatever.