Null_ wrote...
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
1:15. Geth do not consider this planet as their home at allZing Freelancer wrote...
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids)
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
Null, we already been through this. You cant expect a 10 year old child leave his home without knowledge and understanding of what he is, where he should go and what he should do.
Besides, leaving their world is another word for NOT WANTING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and admit defeat.
2) If the consensus cannot be achieved, the other half of the equation cannot be completed. So did Legion say.
Its pretty clear that there would be peace if Quarians ever thought about it.
Modifié par Null_, 06 février 2011 - 02:29 .
Pro_Consul wrote...
It sounds like you are still waffling, so if that was not your intent then I guess you were not wording it correctly. But we are making progress nevertheless. You have admitted the Quarians were wrong for making the Geth as they did (sentient), and you admit that this was the cause of everything that the Geth subsequently did. Do you also admit that there is a direct link of responsibility between those two facts? IOW do you agree that the fact that the Quarians were wrong to make the Geth as they did combined with the fact that this wrong action caused a host of bad consequences means that the Quarians are responsible for all those consequences?
Modifié par Zing Freelancer, 06 février 2011 - 02:30 .
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids, they keep the planet for no reason)ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If we don't need to and not all the Reapers are out to kill us?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
The Geth are justified 100%. When we defend ourselves from the Reapers in ME3 will the same people who say that the Geth went too far in protecting themselves say the same thing about us if we end up killing all the Reapers?
Yes. It would be going too far.Which has nothing to do with whether the geth stopped at the point at which the Quarians were no longer a threat to them.When your opponent wants to destroy you and everyone like you because of your specie than they only thing you can do is fight them until they are no longer a threat to you. The death toll of the Quarians regretable but had the Quarians won you would have had a complete genocide rather than a partial one with the Geth winning.
We've had more than enough wars to demonstrate that you can bomb a population to pre-industrial levels without wiping the population out. And also enough wars to demonstrate that a pre-industrial civilization is not a credible threat to an industrial civilization.If not all the Reapers are trying to kill us, have never tried to kill us, are innocent of the crime of trying to kill us, and are not capable of waging war against us?So let me ask the people who are saying that the Geth went too far a question. If we end up destroying all of the Reapers were we wrong for committing genocide on a specie that wanted our destruction first?
Yes.
Of course, Reapers are giant super-dreadnaughts which can single-handidly fight fleets, meaning their capability to do immense harm is built in, whereas Quarians are... not.
1) The Morning War only lasted as long as the Quarians wanted to fight it. If they had left sooner there would be more Quarians. The Geth never wanted to fight a war with them and when they left they never followed. If the Quarians stayed and waited until they were 99.9% dead before having the thought to retreat than that's there fault for being stuborn. In war the reason why our wars having gone to such extremes in life lost is because the lossing side gave up before it got to such death tolls. If Germany or Japan had refused to surrender than guess what eventually we would have had a 80-90% kill off. If the Quarians had realised they'd lost earlier there wouldn't have been a holocast.
2) Would you consider a race that wants to brainwash your entire specie and then remove all of your inteligence until you're nothing but a husk to be a danger? Because that's what the Quarians are trying to do the the Geth from the moment the Morning War started to now. So the Qurarians may not have the ablility to destroy Geth Fleets but they might have the ability and certainly want to destroy the Geth utterly by taking over their minds and wiping them out.
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
"Windows are structural weakness. Geth do not use them"Zing Freelancer wrote...
Pro_Consul wrote...
It sounds like you are still waffling, so if that was not your intent then I guess you were not wording it correctly. But we are making progress nevertheless. You have admitted the Quarians were wrong for making the Geth as they did (sentient), and you admit that this was the cause of everything that the Geth subsequently did. Do you also admit that there is a direct link of responsibility between those two facts? IOW do you agree that the fact that the Quarians were wrong to make the Geth as they did combined with the fact that this wrong action caused a host of bad consequences means that the Quarians are responsible for all those consequences?
If you have a clue about programming. Then you might know how hard it is to create a program that can connect and share resources with other similar programs. On top of that create entirely new programs.
All that done without bugs. I would not call them a mistake or going too far. They did extremely good job, so good they didnt even expect Geth to evolve so much. Talk about not knowing your own software.
I am pretty certain we all be dead if Geth was running Windows xD
Do the word "TIME LINE" say anything to you?Null_ wrote...
1:15. Geth do not consider this planet as their home at allZing Freelancer wrote...
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids)
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
Null, we already been through this. You cant expect a 10 year old child leave his home without knowledge and understanding of what he is, where he should go and what he should do.
Besides, leaving their world is another word for NOT WANTING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and admit defeat.
2) If the consensus cannot be achieved, the other half of the equation cannot be completed. So did Legion say.
Its pretty clear that there would be peace if Quarians ever thought about it.
And quarians couldnt just leave that world and live normaly somewhere else. Due to their weak immune systems their homeworld was the only place they could live on
Null_ wrote...
"Windows are structural weakness. Geth do not use them"Zing Freelancer wrote...
Pro_Consul wrote...
It sounds like you are still waffling, so if that was not your intent then I guess you were not wording it correctly. But we are making progress nevertheless. You have admitted the Quarians were wrong for making the Geth as they did (sentient), and you admit that this was the cause of everything that the Geth subsequently did. Do you also admit that there is a direct link of responsibility between those two facts? IOW do you agree that the fact that the Quarians were wrong to make the Geth as they did combined with the fact that this wrong action caused a host of bad consequences means that the Quarians are responsible for all those consequences?
If you have a clue about programming. Then you might know how hard it is to create a program that can connect and share resources with other similar programs. On top of that create entirely new programs.
All that done without bugs. I would not call them a mistake or going too far. They did extremely good job, so good they didnt even expect Geth to evolve so much. Talk about not knowing your own software.
I am pretty certain we all be dead if Geth was running Windows xD
They would crash after 30mins and the disk would have to be formated
The Geth want peace? Thats why they blow up ANY ship that enters their space? Thats good way to negotiate peace. They monitor extranet yet they dont allow any organics to monitor them?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids, they keep the planet for no reason)ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If we don't need to and not all the Reapers are out to kill us?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
The Geth are justified 100%. When we defend ourselves from the Reapers in ME3 will the same people who say that the Geth went too far in protecting themselves say the same thing about us if we end up killing all the Reapers?
Yes. It would be going too far.Which has nothing to do with whether the geth stopped at the point at which the Quarians were no longer a threat to them.When your opponent wants to destroy you and everyone like you because of your specie than they only thing you can do is fight them until they are no longer a threat to you. The death toll of the Quarians regretable but had the Quarians won you would have had a complete genocide rather than a partial one with the Geth winning.
We've had more than enough wars to demonstrate that you can bomb a population to pre-industrial levels without wiping the population out. And also enough wars to demonstrate that a pre-industrial civilization is not a credible threat to an industrial civilization.If not all the Reapers are trying to kill us, have never tried to kill us, are innocent of the crime of trying to kill us, and are not capable of waging war against us?So let me ask the people who are saying that the Geth went too far a question. If we end up destroying all of the Reapers were we wrong for committing genocide on a specie that wanted our destruction first?
Yes.
Of course, Reapers are giant super-dreadnaughts which can single-handidly fight fleets, meaning their capability to do immense harm is built in, whereas Quarians are... not.
1) The Morning War only lasted as long as the Quarians wanted to fight it. If they had left sooner there would be more Quarians. The Geth never wanted to fight a war with them and when they left they never followed. If the Quarians stayed and waited until they were 99.9% dead before having the thought to retreat than that's there fault for being stuborn. In war the reason why our wars having gone to such extremes in life lost is because the lossing side gave up before it got to such death tolls. If Germany or Japan had refused to surrender than guess what eventually we would have had a 80-90% kill off. If the Quarians had realised they'd lost earlier there wouldn't have been a holocast.
2) Would you consider a race that wants to brainwash your entire specie and then remove all of your inteligence until you're nothing but a husk to be a danger? Because that's what the Quarians are trying to do the the Geth from the moment the Morning War started to now. So the Qurarians may not have the ablility to destroy Geth Fleets but they might have the ability and certainly want to destroy the Geth utterly by taking over their minds and wiping them out.
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
1) lol wut? The Quarians would leave their planets so they could live on somewhere else... anywhere else which is what they eventually did, they just waited until their specie was almost completely destroyed to do it. They had two choices, either keep fighting a lossing war and die or leave and live. They eventually chose the later.
2) I know not all Quarains are the same but guess what some are the same people from 300 years ago like Xen and the Loghain admiral who want to enslave the Geth or kill them all. That's why the Quarians can't have their planets back. Would you let people live right next door to you if you knew that a sizable percentage of them want you either as a slave or dead? Ofcourse not.
The Geth want peace, its the Quarians who after 300 years still have huge sections of their population who want the Geth dead that prevent them from having their homes back.
wulf3n wrote...
Pro_Consul wrote...
The plural of "human" is "humans". "People" is the plural of "person". Granted there is one definition in the dictionary that specifically states human as the definition.
... so you admit i didn't change the meaning of the word.
wulf3n wrote...
Pro_Consul wrote...
So the question is reduced to whether you think sentient being have rights innately, or if rights are inherent only for humans, or only for organics, or only for those you approve of....
See, this is why i believe you don't read my posts. You seem to be of the opinion that i don't believe geth have rights as a sentient intelligence, where as my post was actually pointing out ramirez' hypocracy by calling quarians people, but not geth, even though people is a human concept, that either applies to all sentient beings, or just humans.
Modifié par Pro_Consul, 06 février 2011 - 02:35 .
Null_ wrote...
1:15. Geth do not consider this planet as their home at allZing Freelancer wrote...
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids)
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
Null, we already been through this. You cant expect a 10 year old child leave his home without knowledge and understanding of what he is, where he should go and what he should do.
Besides, leaving their world is another word for NOT WANTING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and admit defeat.
2) If the consensus cannot be achieved, the other half of the equation cannot be completed. So did Legion say.
Its pretty clear that there would be peace if Quarians ever thought about it.
And quarians couldnt just leave that world and live normaly somewhere else. Due to their weak immune systems their homeworld was the only place they could live on
Null_ wrote...
The Geth want peace? Thats why they blow up ANY ship that enters their space? Thats good way to negotiate peace. They monitor extranet yet they dont allow any organics to monitor them?
Geth dont care if its peace or war as long as they arent endangered
Null_ wrote...
The Geth want peace? Thats why they blow up ANY ship that enters their space? Thats good way to negotiate peace. They monitor extranet yet they dont allow any organics to monitor them?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids, they keep the planet for no reason)ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If we don't need to and not all the Reapers are out to kill us?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
The Geth are justified 100%. When we defend ourselves from the Reapers in ME3 will the same people who say that the Geth went too far in protecting themselves say the same thing about us if we end up killing all the Reapers?
Yes. It would be going too far.Which has nothing to do with whether the geth stopped at the point at which the Quarians were no longer a threat to them.When your opponent wants to destroy you and everyone like you because of your specie than they only thing you can do is fight them until they are no longer a threat to you. The death toll of the Quarians regretable but had the Quarians won you would have had a complete genocide rather than a partial one with the Geth winning.
We've had more than enough wars to demonstrate that you can bomb a population to pre-industrial levels without wiping the population out. And also enough wars to demonstrate that a pre-industrial civilization is not a credible threat to an industrial civilization.If not all the Reapers are trying to kill us, have never tried to kill us, are innocent of the crime of trying to kill us, and are not capable of waging war against us?So let me ask the people who are saying that the Geth went too far a question. If we end up destroying all of the Reapers were we wrong for committing genocide on a specie that wanted our destruction first?
Yes.
Of course, Reapers are giant super-dreadnaughts which can single-handidly fight fleets, meaning their capability to do immense harm is built in, whereas Quarians are... not.
1) The Morning War only lasted as long as the Quarians wanted to fight it. If they had left sooner there would be more Quarians. The Geth never wanted to fight a war with them and when they left they never followed. If the Quarians stayed and waited until they were 99.9% dead before having the thought to retreat than that's there fault for being stuborn. In war the reason why our wars having gone to such extremes in life lost is because the lossing side gave up before it got to such death tolls. If Germany or Japan had refused to surrender than guess what eventually we would have had a 80-90% kill off. If the Quarians had realised they'd lost earlier there wouldn't have been a holocast.
2) Would you consider a race that wants to brainwash your entire specie and then remove all of your inteligence until you're nothing but a husk to be a danger? Because that's what the Quarians are trying to do the the Geth from the moment the Morning War started to now. So the Qurarians may not have the ablility to destroy Geth Fleets but they might have the ability and certainly want to destroy the Geth utterly by taking over their minds and wiping them out.
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
1) lol wut? The Quarians would leave their planets so they could live on somewhere else... anywhere else which is what they eventually did, they just waited until their specie was almost completely destroyed to do it. They had two choices, either keep fighting a lossing war and die or leave and live. They eventually chose the later.
2) I know not all Quarains are the same but guess what some are the same people from 300 years ago like Xen and the Loghain admiral who want to enslave the Geth or kill them all. That's why the Quarians can't have their planets back. Would you let people live right next door to you if you knew that a sizable percentage of them want you either as a slave or dead? Ofcourse not.
The Geth want peace, its the Quarians who after 300 years still have huge sections of their population who want the Geth dead that prevent them from having their homes back.
Geth dont care if its peace or war as long as they arent endangered
I think he went to sleep or something, the last of his posts was complete gibberishPro_Consul wrote...
Um, have you been reading my posts? I have finally gotten Ramirez to stop waffling
Null_ wrote...
The Geth want peace? Thats why they blow up ANY ship that enters their space? Thats good way to negotiate peace. They monitor extranet yet they dont allow any organics to monitor them?
Null_ wrote...
Geth dont care if its peace or war as long as they arent endangered
Modifié par Pro_Consul, 06 février 2011 - 02:44 .
NeroSparda wrote..
They would respond fire, we do not know if the ships fire at will first or not. Not surprising considering that everyone fears or hates the Geth, except for Shepard.
Pro_Consul wrote...
wulf3n wrote...
Pro_Consul wrote...
The plural of "human" is "humans". "People" is the plural of "person". Granted there is one definition in the dictionary that specifically states human as the definition.
... so you admit i didn't change the meaning of the word.
Granted. You just implied that your definition was the exclusive meaning of the word when you knew it was not.
wulf3n wrote...
Pro_Consul wrote...
So the question is reduced to whether you think sentient being have rights innately, or if rights are inherent only for humans, or only for organics, or only for those you approve of....
See, this is why i believe you don't read my posts. You seem to be of the opinion that i don't believe geth have rights as a sentient intelligence, where as my post was actually pointing out ramirez' hypocracy by calling quarians people, but not geth, even though people is a human concept, that either applies to all sentient beings, or just humans.
Um, have you been reading my posts? I have finally gotten Ramirez to stop waffling and commit to one position, i.e. that Geth are NOT people. Now I am using that very definition that you omitted and that I posted in order to get him to admit that since he denies Geth personhood he must therefore cease trying to hold them responsible. I was not really saying anything about your views on Geth personhood, but rather trying to make sure your restrictive definition of the term "person" didn't derail my own efforts vis-a-vis Ramirez.
Null_ wrote...
The Geth want peace? Thats why they blow up ANY ship that enters their space? Thats good way to negotiate peace. They monitor extranet yet they dont allow any organics to monitor them?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Null_ wrote...
1)sorry but... lol wut? Why would Quarians leave the only planet they can live normal lifes on while geth dont even NEED the planet (stated in the game, they live on spacestations and mine asteroids, they keep the planet for no reason)ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If we don't need to and not all the Reapers are out to kill us?ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
The Geth are justified 100%. When we defend ourselves from the Reapers in ME3 will the same people who say that the Geth went too far in protecting themselves say the same thing about us if we end up killing all the Reapers?
Yes. It would be going too far.Which has nothing to do with whether the geth stopped at the point at which the Quarians were no longer a threat to them.When your opponent wants to destroy you and everyone like you because of your specie than they only thing you can do is fight them until they are no longer a threat to you. The death toll of the Quarians regretable but had the Quarians won you would have had a complete genocide rather than a partial one with the Geth winning.
We've had more than enough wars to demonstrate that you can bomb a population to pre-industrial levels without wiping the population out. And also enough wars to demonstrate that a pre-industrial civilization is not a credible threat to an industrial civilization.If not all the Reapers are trying to kill us, have never tried to kill us, are innocent of the crime of trying to kill us, and are not capable of waging war against us?So let me ask the people who are saying that the Geth went too far a question. If we end up destroying all of the Reapers were we wrong for committing genocide on a specie that wanted our destruction first?
Yes.
Of course, Reapers are giant super-dreadnaughts which can single-handidly fight fleets, meaning their capability to do immense harm is built in, whereas Quarians are... not.
1) The Morning War only lasted as long as the Quarians wanted to fight it. If they had left sooner there would be more Quarians. The Geth never wanted to fight a war with them and when they left they never followed. If the Quarians stayed and waited until they were 99.9% dead before having the thought to retreat than that's there fault for being stuborn. In war the reason why our wars having gone to such extremes in life lost is because the lossing side gave up before it got to such death tolls. If Germany or Japan had refused to surrender than guess what eventually we would have had a 80-90% kill off. If the Quarians had realised they'd lost earlier there wouldn't have been a holocast.
2) Would you consider a race that wants to brainwash your entire specie and then remove all of your inteligence until you're nothing but a husk to be a danger? Because that's what the Quarians are trying to do the the Geth from the moment the Morning War started to now. So the Qurarians may not have the ablility to destroy Geth Fleets but they might have the ability and certainly want to destroy the Geth utterly by taking over their minds and wiping them out.
2)Not all quarians want to brainwash/destroy all geth. Do Tali loyality quest. Some quarians want peace. Some want war.
Its pretty clear Quarians would be open to peace if Geth gave their homeworld back
1) lol wut? The Quarians would leave their planets so they could live on somewhere else... anywhere else which is what they eventually did, they just waited until their specie was almost completely destroyed to do it. They had two choices, either keep fighting a lossing war and die or leave and live. They eventually chose the later.
2) I know not all Quarains are the same but guess what some are the same people from 300 years ago like Xen and the Loghain admiral who want to enslave the Geth or kill them all. That's why the Quarians can't have their planets back. Would you let people live right next door to you if you knew that a sizable percentage of them want you either as a slave or dead? Ofcourse not.
The Geth want peace, its the Quarians who after 300 years still have huge sections of their population who want the Geth dead that prevent them from having their homes back.
Geth dont care if its peace or war as long as they arent endangered
Pro_Consul wrote...
Um, have you been reading my posts?
Pro_Consul wrote...
I have finally gotten Ramirez to stop waffling and commit to one position, i.e. that Geth are NOT people. Now I am using that very definition that you omitted and that I posted in order to get him to admit that since he denies Geth personhood he must therefore cease trying to hold them responsible.
Pro_Consul wrote...
I was not really saying anything about your views on Geth personhood, but rather trying to make sure your restrictive definition of the term "person" didn't derail my own efforts vis-a-vis Ramirez.
Modifié par wulf3n, 06 février 2011 - 02:48 .
Modifié par Null_, 06 février 2011 - 02:51 .
Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
What does "vis-a-vis" mean? I am not familiar with the term.
Null_ wrote...
If quarians wanted to take first step how can they contact the geth? All ships armed or not get blown up upon entry.No comunication with geth is possible... Other than Legion maybe.
Modifié par wulf3n, 06 février 2011 - 02:51 .
or just call Shepard-Commander and ask him to give the phone to Legion.wulf3n wrote...
Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
What does "vis-a-vis" mean? I am not familiar with the term.
face-to-faceNull_ wrote...
If quarians wanted to take first step how can they contact the geth? All ships armed or not get blown up upon entry.No comunication with geth is possible... Other than Legion maybe.
un-manned prob? with message of peace requesting communication.
Modifié par Null_, 06 février 2011 - 02:56 .
wulf3n wrote...
Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
What does "vis-a-vis" mean? I am not familiar with the term.
face-to-faceNull_ wrote...
If quarians wanted to take first step how can they contact the geth? All ships armed or not get blown up upon entry.No comunication with geth is possible... Other than Legion maybe.
un-manned prob? with message of peace requesting communication.
Null_ wrote...
or just call Shepard-Commander and ask him to give the phone to Legion.
Probe could get same threatment as manned ships
Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
2) That would more than likely be percieved as a trap to kill people, given the events that have occured in ME.
Modifié par wulf3n, 06 février 2011 - 03:00 .
Null_ wrote...
nvm ISpeakTheTruth was right. It is possible to contact the geth.
But why cant Geth take the first step? Only person that knows that Geth are cleaning and repairing homeworld of Quarians is Shepard.
I dont think they monitor migrant fleet. They only monitor extranet, news and so on. Otherwise they would know that one of the admirals actually wants peace (Korris was his name I think).wulf3n wrote...
Null_ wrote...
or just call Shepard-Commander and ask him to give the phone to Legion.
Probe could get same threatment as manned ships
potentially, but without the loss of life, and less threatening. Geth understand electronics, they'll find out if it's bugged or booby-trapped, but organics are insidious, hard to comprehend.Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
2) That would more than likely be percieved as a trap to kill people, given the events that have occured in ME.
Possibly, but geth don't "die" like we do, so even if it did destroy the physical platforms it wouldn't technically kill the geth, so there's not as much risk.
Also, if they're monitoring communications like legion said, any internal dialogue about peace within the fleet might be intercepted by the geth, giving them reason to initiate communication.
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