368 réponses à ce sujet

[Zing Freelancer]

Indeed, I occasionally got puzzled by the fact that nobody attempted to utilize a weapon of mass destruction based on Overload ability.



Neither did they try to flood Geth network with redundant data? Like modern DoS attacks. Though maybe they did and it didnt work out, so we never was told because it was deemed unimportant.



But to be honest, after seeing Joker flying SR1 Normandy in a ... Mask. I immediately put all logic aside and just focused on enjoying the game.

I mean, HELLO? Pressure suits? Armours? Pretty dress is pretty, but tattoos dont save you from vacuum and radiation exposures.

[Kusy]

V-rex wrote...
Anyway, as it stands, if you ask me trying to find the army that holds the moral high ground in this situation is like trying to find Godzilla in the middle of Pride and Prejudice. It's just not there.

Your authority just died. I find all your arguments invalid. Good day sir.

[V-rex]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

V-rex wrote...
Anyway, as it stands, if you ask me trying to find the army that holds the moral high ground in this situation is like trying to find Godzilla in the middle of Pride and Prejudice. It's just not there.

Your authority just died. I find all your arguments invalid. Good day sir.

Pfft, that's obviously just a cat in a wierdly shaped hedge.

Okay fine then, different analogy.

"It's like looking for a reptile in Antarctica."

[General User]

Recognize the truth: that the geth were as children, brought innocent into the world and, in seeking their own security, nearly exterminated the race of their creators. 
 
Now face the consequences of this truth, the geth are extraordinarily well-armed, not at all shy about using those arms to depopulate entire planets, and (being as children) have a very limited capacity to empathize with others, or understand the consequences of their own actions.
 
The geth remain a threat to all those around them, the geth’s child-like nature only make them MORE dangerous. 
 
Looking for a good guy isn’t necessary. Recognizing a threat does not require a moral judgment. 

[V-rex]

General User wrote...
Snip

If Legion's any indication, none of those statements are still correct.

The Geth appear to have 'matured' now, enough that they acknowledge what they did was wrong. Enough that they are now trying to understand organics instead of deeming them a threat. Legion was made and tasked specifically with finding Shepard so that the Geth could communicate with him and directly with organics.

They no longer wish to wage war and they have learned more about organics and even at one point acknowledge that they may not be so different from each other afterall. They wish to understand us, not fight us. They''ve even started to develop signs of personality and emotional desires, and don't seem intent on waging war anymore.

The Geth were childlike and unfamilar when they first gained sentience, but after three hundred years of independant development, they've clearly evolved past that stage now. They are a much more logical race now, and may even have the capacity to empathise.

What they were then does not mean that's what they are still today.

EDIT: Also while it's true that you don't need a moral 'right' to spot a threat, you also don't need one to spot someone blatantly antagonizing the threat. I.E the Quarians constantly trying to go to war with the Geth. It's like throwing rocks at a hornet's nest.
If the Geth only pose a risk if people threaten them, then can't the people threatening them also recieve their share of the blame for the 'threat'?

Modifié par V-rex, 04 février 2011 - 03:48 .

[Zing Freelancer]

Killing Geth still remains my favourite hobby though...

[General User]

V-rex wrote...
If Legion's any indication, none of those statements are still correct.

Some are, some aren't.  Let's break 'em down!

If it pleases, also including additions in bold with underline

V-rex wrote...
The Geth appear to have 'matured' now, enough that they acknowledge what they did was wrong true. Enough that they are now trying to understand organics instead of deeming them a threat right. Legion was made and tasked specifically with finding Shepard so that the Geth could communicate with him and directly with organics.

Sort of, to find Shepard so as to better 'oppose the old machines', Legion's mission was not straight diplomacy, or rather it was diplomatic with a very limited, miltary oriented goal. 

It was a mission born of neccessity, not of any sort of fundamental shift in geth policy or mindset.  This may indicate a maturing geth, or one simply seeking to survive.

The effect Legion will have on the geth after uploading their experiences on the Normandy will be impossible to predict.

V-rex wrote...
They no longer wish to wage war the Heretics do and they have learned more about organics and even at one point acknowledge that they may not be so different from each other afterall indeed.  They wish to understand us, not fight us. They''ve even started to develop signs of personality and emotional desires 'started' being key, and don't seem intent on waging war anymore.

Except when they are, Eden Prime etc.  The geth are quite peaceful, except when they aren't.

This makes the geth a threat similar to any other race or nation, only alot more powerful and difficult to understand, thus a greater threat.

V-rex wrote...
The Geth were childlike and unfamilar when they first gained sentience, but after three hundred years of independant development, they've clearly evolved past that stage now. They are a much more logical race now, and mya even have the capacity to empathise.

Developing empathy and related social skills cannot be done in isolation.  At the very least, the geth's isolation is prolonging their adolesence.  If Legion is any example, the geth could change very rapidly in this regard, but they haven't done it yet.

Modifié par General User, 04 février 2011 - 04:03 .

[V-rex]

You know what? I may have to get back to you on this some time because it's midnight where I am right now and I can barely stay awake, let alone come up with any arguments.
In any case I agree on some parts and disagree on others.

So yeah, call the debate quits for now, I need to go sleep. My vision is actually getting blurry.

Also I apologize if I might have come across as rude in any way, if I did it wasn't my intention.

Modifié par V-rex, 04 février 2011 - 04:21 .

[The7Sins]

Yes the Geth are justified in what they did. They only did unto the Quarians what the Quarians first without provocation tired to do to them.

[Pro_Consul]

General User wrote...

Except when they are, Eden Prime etc.  The geth are quite peaceful, except when they aren't.

Thismakes the geth a threat similar to any other race or nation, only alot more powerful and difficult to understand, thus a greater threat.

When "difficult to understand" equates to "threat", then we are not talking about objective threat assessment. We
are talking about xenophobia. The arguments you use here could be applied FAR more appropriately to almost every organic race we know about it in the MEverse.

General User wrote...

Developing empathy and related social skills cannot be done in isolation.  At the very least, the geth's isolation is prolonging their adolesence.  If Legion is any example, the geth could change very rapidly in this regard, but they haven't done it yet.

Actually, with a choice between "developing empathy and related social skills" in isolation or doing it under the bondage of the relentlessly genocidal Quarians, I think I prefer the Geth do it in isolation. Their first knowledge of another species was of the one that created them, and the first act of that species was to try to completely wipe them out. Better that they chose to put some distance between themselves and other species until they had had a chance to learn better lessons in interspecies relations on their own.

As for Legion's example, in my opinion he proves the exact opposite, i.e. that the Geth have changed very rapidly indeed. Here are a few specifics that I think show a rapid change in Geth social maturity:

• In only 3 centuries they went from an infant race whose creators only taught them war and that organics want them all dead to proactively reaching out to make common cause with organic races. (Legion seeking out Shep to join him in fighting Reapers)
• They went from what must have a xenophobic, paranoid beginning when they only knew their masters and all of the masters wanted them dead to the point where they are willing not only to work with an organic alien species, but to voluntarily place themselves in a subordinate position in that alliance. (Legion agreeing to place himself  under Shep's command)
• Their prioritization of social relations has grown to the point that Legion was willing to forego his duty to report on Quarian plans to attack the Geth in order to preserve his alliance with Shep.(Legion's showdown with Tali)
• Legion states that it is a firm belief of the Geth that all sentient life has the right to self-determinate. For them to have reached this conclusion and adopted it as a core belief of their species in the mere three centuries since their creators worked so hard to teach them the exact opposite...well it is far better than humans have ever done. How many millenia have we gone and we still cannot truthfully claim to have adopted this as a core belief of our species?

 All this social maturation in only three centuries, when most organic races take millenia to advance this far socially, or fail to do it altogether... I'd say Legion has shown that Geth have the potential to surpass the Asari in social maturity...and soon. If the rest of the council races could get over their anti-synthetic prejudices as quickly as the Geth have gotten over their anti-organic ones...well I would see the Geth having a seat on the Council in about 300 years, and being the most sensible and mature voice there.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 04 février 2011 - 06:12 .

[DarthSliver]

www.youtube.com/watch - Geth Network


www.youtube.com/watch - Quarian Rebellion



www.youtube.com/watch - Geth Future

Modifié par DarthSliver, 04 février 2011 - 07:07 .

[General User]

Pro_Consul wrote...
When "difficult to understand" equates to "threat", then we are not talking about objective threat assessment. We
are talking about xenophobia. The arguments you use here could be applied FAR more appropriately to almost every organic race we know about it in the MEverse.

Indeed, equating the geth to a nation of organics was my intention, for it is my contention that the geth are people, just synthetic-people.
 
Let’s consider the matter of xenophobia, the irrational fear of other nations (or those from other nations). When a nation isolates itself, rebuffs (violently) all attempts at communication and, recently, X percent of their number sallies forth on a genocidal crusade, is not a fear of that nation a rational response?
 
How two peoples understand each other is also a matter of critical importance. The potential for a misunderstanding leading to needless conflict is magnified when those two peoples have mutally incomprehensible views of the universe. 

As such it is not the fact that two peoples are different that makes them a threat to each other, rather that the lack of understanding, in and of itself, is a threat to peace.

Actually, with a choice between "developing empathy and related social skills" in isolation or doing it under the bondage of the relentlessly genocidal Quarians, I think I prefer the Geth do it in isolation. Their first knowledge of another species was of the one that created them, and the first act of that species was to try to completely wipe them out. Better that they chose to put some distance between themselves and other species until they had had a chance to learn better lessons in interspecies relations on their own.

Let us not use euphemisms, truth is the rock upon which reconciliation is built.  In that spirit, we must first come to common agreement as to the events surrounding the Morning War if we are to move forward. As such allow me to present those events, as I understand them, for critique and comment:
 
Having awoken to conscience by pure accident of their created nature, the geth’s first sentient experience was the fear and hostility of their creators, culminating in the quarian attempt to ‘strangle them in the cradle’, to murder all geth before they could present a threat to quarians.
 
But the quarians miscalculated. The geth could not be ‘unplugged’, and the geth fought back. The war was brutal, it saw wide-spread use of WMD’s, and surrenders were neither offered nor given by either side. As the geth took territory, they systematically murdered all surviving quarians.  As organized quarian resistance crumbled, the geth continued to prosecute the war against non-belligerent groups, using the same genocidal tactics. The geth followed the quarians into space and exterminated the quarians on any world they had colonized.
 
Ultimately the geth were victorious, and the only quarians who survived where those in the Migrant Fleet, who the geth could not catch.

Modifié par General User, 04 février 2011 - 08:09 .

[008Zulu]

Slayer299 wrote...
No, it's not hyperbole - http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Quarian. If the ME Earth has a present population of 11.4 billion and the Quarians have 17 million left out of both their colonies and from Rannoch. Somehow I doubt that the rest of the Quarians who died were all soldiers.

Based on the article, the people who tried to shut the Geth down were their respective owners. As such they would have killed those first, and since most Quarrians had Geth servants then I can see where most of the deaths would be. But by that same token, since the Geth were now intelligent, it would be like a rich person trying to murder their butler or maid.

Murder is murder regardless of race, the Geth became self aware and nature would have classified them as a new species. On a grand scale it would appear to be murder, when it is just a case of mass self defense.

[Ahglock]

It it is kind of disturbing how quickly people in this thread justify genocide. And this coming from someone who frequently says, If I have to pick a side I pick genocide.

[pharos_gryphon]

The Geth would have looked at it as an equation.



If the end goal is peace for the Geth, and the conclusion is that so long as Quarians are in that sector there will be conflict, then it's a simple us vs. them. Did they slaughter Quarians? Certainly, but only after Quarians struck the first blow in the conflict, threatening them with annihilation. Also, it's worth remembering that they did not pursue them beyond their home sector. They didn't leave that sector at all till Saren showed up.

[The7Sins]

Ahglock wrote...

It it is kind of disturbing how quickly people in this thread justify genocide. And this coming from someone who frequently says, If I have to pick a side I pick genocide.

The Quarians were not justified because they had not been provoked by the Geth. The Geth however are justified due to not only defending themselves but by giving the Quarians a taste of there own medicine. The Quarians got what they deserved and quite frankly would have no one to blame but themselvs had they gotten wiped out. Its like IRL wars whatever side did not start the hostitliies IMO has full right to use whatever tactics the aggressors used on them no matter what those tactics are.

[DarthSliver]

Ahglock wrote...

It it is kind of disturbing how quickly people in this thread justify genocide. And this coming from someone who frequently says, If I have to pick a side I pick genocide.

Siding with the Quarians is picking Genocide. They created an advance programming system called the Geth without any programing restrictions. Letting the program evolve and take new shape, allowing the Geth to eventually gain sentient status. So than the Quarians go to wipe out the Geth, at first the Geth just took it but after a few or so Geths getting destroyed the Geth decided that it wasnt in the best interest not to do something. The Geth acted to survive. Even to this day the the Quarians think it wasnt their fault and are planning another war with the Geth, after 300 years of the Geth evolving even more and getting smarter.

Also with the evidence Legion gives us about what they knew 300 years about the Quarians is this. The Quarians kept mounting assaults against the Geth and continued to loss ground and its because they thought they had the upper hand. 300 year later the Quarians are still doing the same thing. They now think they may have the upper hand and want to restart the war. I say the Quarians sealed their own fate leaving the Geth with no choice but Genocide on the Quarians. After 300 years you think the Quarians would have gain some wisdom from past events.

Like others have said, I hope the Legion and Tali are on your team in ME3 and the two make a bond and peace with one another. Than Tali could use her influence to stop her people from making dreadful mistake. 

[Pro_Consul]

General User wrote...

Let’s consider the matter of xenophobia, the irrational fear of other nations (or those from other nations). When a nation isolates itself, rebuffs (violently) all attempts at communication and, recently, X percent of their number sallies forth on a genocidal crusade, is not a fear of that nation a rational response?

All nations isolate themselves to a greater or lesser degree. In and of itself this does not constitute a threat to another nation. As for violently rebuffing all attempts at communication, that is not true. They have ignored attempts at communication, and only violently rebuffed incursions into their territory, and not even all of those. As for the heretics' crusade, that is only valid in the sense of RPing a threat assessment from the POV of a person within the MEverse who does NOT have access to the info we have. Because you and I both know that was no more a Geth attack then it was a council attack (since a council Spectre was, after all, the putative leader of that attack). In fact, there has not been a single recorded instance of the Geth attacking anyone outside their borders anywhere....ever.
 

General User wrote...

How two peoples understand each other is also a matter of critical importance. The potential for a misunderstanding leading to needless conflict is magnified when those two peoples have mutally incomprehensible views of the universe.

 

True enough. But when one of those cultures keeps to itself, this rather mitigates their "threat" level toward the other.

General User wrote...

As such it is not the fact that two peoples are different that makes them a threat to each other, rather that the lack of understanding, in and of itself, is a threat to peace.

Now this is a much better restatement of that earlier point. Lack of understanding is indeed a threat to peace. Not understanding someone else does not make them a threat to you, but it very often makes you a threat to them. And truthfully here, you must admit that the Geth have proven to be far more open to trying to really understand organics than any organics have been to trying to understand the Geth. In fact, so far as we have everyone is only interested in gathering military intelligence on the Geth, e.g. strengths and weaknesses, disposition of forces, combat-related technologies and so forth. In the entire ME1 and ME2 experience we have only seen one case of anyone being curious about what Geth think, how they feel, what they value or how they see the rest of the universe...and that was Shep questioning Legion.

General User wrote...

Let us not use euphemisms, truth is the rock upon which reconciliation is built.  In that spirit, we must first come to common agreement as to the events surrounding the Morning War if we are to move forward. As such allow me to present those events, as I understand them, for critique and comment:
 
Having awoken to conscience by pure accident of their created nature, the geth’s first sentient experience was the fear and hostility of their creators, culminating in the quarian attempt to ‘strangle them in the cradle’, to murder all geth before they could present a threat to quarians.
 
But the quarians miscalculated. The geth could not be ‘unplugged’, and the geth fought back. The war was brutal, it saw wide-spread use of WMD’s, and surrenders were neither offered nor given by either side. As the geth took territory, they systematically murdered all surviving quarians.  As organized quarian resistance crumbled, the geth continued to prosecute the war against non-belligerent groups, using the same genocidal tactics. The geth followed the quarians into space and exterminated the quarians on any world they had colonized.
 
Ultimately the geth were victorious, and the only quarians who survived where those in the Migrant Fleet, who the geth could not catch.

I think you are inserting a LOT of assumptions here about the progress of the war. I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about the Geth systematically murdering Quarians, pursuing of the war against a vanquished enemy by expanding to attack non-belligerents, following retreating Quarians to any world they had colonized...all of that is stuff I have never heard anywhere but in this thread and another much like it. I do, however, recall Legion remarking that every time the Quarians thought they had an advantage they would launch a new attack against the Geth. And the Quarians are apparently doing that same thing even now in the ME timeline, so that bears out Legion's remarks. Therefore it seems to me more like it was the Quarians who refused to admit when they were beaten and seek a way to end the war, and who kept on initiating new violent exchanges every time they had a chance to catch their breath.

[General User]

Pro_Consul wrote...

All nations isolate themselves to a greater or lesser degree. In and of itself this does not constitute a threat to another nation. As for violently rebuffing all attempts at communication, that is not true. They have ignored attempts at communication, and only violently rebuffed incursions into their territory, and not even all of those. As for the heretics' crusade, that is only valid in the sense of RPing a threat assessment from the POV of a person within the MEverse who does NOT have access to the info we have. Because you and I both know that was no more a Geth attack then it was a council attack (since a council Spectre was, after all, the putative leader of that attack). In fact, there has not been a single recorded instance of the Geth attacking anyone outside their borders anywhere....ever.

And all nations should fear other nations, to a greater or lesser degree. The geth are, as a nation, isolationist, and periodically (in part and in whole) genocidal. As such this place them firmly on the ‘greater degree’ side of the scale.
 
Here’s my POV: The geth, long an isolationist fringe element, begin to worship a Reaper, who commands them to invade human space and wipeout human colonies as part of a bid to destroy galactic civilization. A couple of years later a single geth platform claims that the geth who’ve been trying very hard to kill us all for quite some time now, actually only represent a portion of the total geth.  Mission follows.
 
What POV leads to the conclusion that the geth are not, at least, a serious potential threat? Even if you take Legion at their word, there is nothing to guarantee the geth won’t decide to wipe out a few more planets for an unrelated reason, just as any other group might.  Only the geth are powerful by nature and inscrutable by choice.
 

Now this is a much better restatement of that earlier point. Lack of understanding is indeed a threat to peace. Not understanding someone else does not make them a threat to you, but it very often makes you a threat to them.

Close.  A lack of understanding heightens both parties threat to each other.

And truthfully here, you must admit that the Geth have proven to be far more open to trying to really understand organics than any organics have been to trying to understand the Geth. In fact, so far as we have everyone is only interested in gathering military intelligence on the Geth, e.g. strengths and weaknesses, disposition of forces, combat-related technologies and so forth. In the entire ME1 and ME2 experience we have only seen one case of anyone being curious about what Geth think, how they feel, what they value or how they see the rest of the universe...and that was Shep questioning Legion.

Yes and no.  The geth are curious about us, no doubt about that.

But consider the Council's perspective.  After umpteen decades of rebuffed communication attempts and disappeared expeditions (military and otherwise), the Council was largely content to let the geth alone.  Who knows how long this would have gone on were it not for Sovereign and Eden Prime?

Eden Prime proved that the geth could, at any time, lash out at their neighbors.  The Council (and esp. the Alliance) governments, militaries, intelligence agencies, etc. all have a fundamental responsibility to their citizens to protect them from things like a 'robot-jihad'.

Sorry, but the Orthodox geth lost their ‘right’ (insofar as they ever had one) to be isolationist on the day the Heretics left.

I think you are inserting a LOT of assumptions here about the progress of the war. I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about the Geth systematically murdering Quarians, pursuing of the war against a vanquished enemy by expanding to attack non-belligerents, following retreating Quarians to any world they had colonized...all of that is stuff I have never heard anywhere but in this thread and another much like it. I do, however, recall Legion remarking that every time the Quarians thought they had an advantage they would launch a new attack against the Geth. And the Quarians are apparently doing that same thing even now in the ME timeline, so that bears out Legion's remarks. Therefore it seems to me more like it was the Quarians who refused to admit when they were beaten and seek a way to end the war, and who kept on initiating new violent exchanges every time they had a chance to catch their breath.

Consider if you will; prior to the Morning War, there were (at a minimum) 2 billion quarians living on Rannoch, and an unknown number of quarians living on an unknown number of colony worlds. After the war, every single quarian still alive (approx. 17 million) was aboard the Migrant Fleet.
 
Wiping out +99% of a population does not simply break a people’s will to resist, it breaks their ability to resist. 
 
What scenario could account for this that does not include the geth undertaking a systematic campaign of extermination?
 
Also consider: The idea that every sub-group within an entire organic race with billions of individuals could be dedicated to a single end simply does not hold water.  Thus the overwhelmingly likelyhood becomes that entire ethnic/national/tribal groups within the quarian race were non-participants in the Morning War, and were exterminated by the geth anyway. 

[Slayer299]

008Zulu wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
No, it's not hyperbole - http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Quarian. If the ME Earth has a present population of 11.4 billion and the Quarians have 17 million left out of both their colonies and from Rannoch. Somehow I doubt that the rest of the Quarians who died were all soldiers.

Based on the article, the people who tried to shut the Geth down were their respective owners. As such they would have killed those first, and since most Quarrians had Geth servants then I can see where most of the deaths would be. But by that same token, since the Geth were now intelligent, it would be like a rich person trying to murder their butler or maid.

Murder is murder regardless of race, the Geth became self aware and nature would have classified them as a new species. On a grand scale it would appear to be murder, when it is just a case of mass self defense.

Nope, sorry, I can't agree with you at all with that conclusion that it was "mass self-defense". That is just a convenient label to whitewash/justify their genocide. Using that label says that it justifies the murder of children and no, there is ZERO reasoning that can excuse that. Period. None. Whatsoever. At. All.

The Quarians overreacted in trying to deactivate all the Geth, but the Geth went about a systematic genocide of ALL Quarians, and not the military forces/factories/bases of the Quarians. 

[The7Sins]

Slayer299 wrote...
Nope, sorry, I can't agree with you at all with that conclusion that it was "mass self-defense". That is just a convenient label to whitewash/justify their genocide. Using that label says that it justifies the murder of children and no, there is ZERO reasoning that can excuse that. Period. None. Whatsoever. At. All.

The Quarians overreacted in trying to deactivate all the Geth, but the Geth went about a systematic genocide of ALL Quarians, and not the military forces/factories/bases of the Quarians. 

Sure there is. The Geth only did to the Quarians what they tried to do to themselves. That makes it justifiable. Also killing Quarian women, children, and other non combatents is a good thing to do (should be done IRL) since it ensure your sides victory that much sooner and helps to ensure there are fewer or no people that can in future generations seek revenge or the return of the hostilities and war. And finally the Geth are machines so we can not try to project our (see: your) morals onto them.

What the Geth did was justified due to what war truely is. Wars IRL honestly should go about it the same way in order to ensure your sides victorey sooner and to make it so once victory is obtained the people that were beaten have souch lowered population and are so weakened they can never hope to ever retaliate in the future and make a return to hostilities for if they do they would then be wiped out. Wiping out everyone when @ war from the soldiers to the women, children, old, disabled, and mentally insanse is something that is perfectly ok in my books. However doing such should only be done in an attempt to end the war ASAP and to permanetly weaken and lower the populations of the opponents not due to forms of racism or other factors like what went on in WW2. That and similar things definetily cross the line. In short it isn't what is done but why and to an extent how that it is done that makes it wrong.

[Pro_Consul]

General User wrote...

And all nations should fear other nations, to a greater or lesser degree. The geth are, as a nation, isolationist, and periodically (in part and in whole) genocidal. As such this place them firmly on the ‘greater degree’ side of the scale.

Actually quite the opposite. On the threat scale isolationism places a nation far to the non-threat side, while its opposite, interventionism, is the one that places a nation firmly on the greater threat side of the scale. Parse it logically: a race that at its very core wants nothing more than to be left alone to do their own thing is about as NON-threatening as a race can get.
 

General User wrote...

Here’s my POV: The geth, long an isolationist fringe element, begin to worship a Reaper, who commands them to invade human space and wipeout human colonies as part of a bid to destroy galactic civilization. A couple of years later a single geth platform claims that the geth who’ve been trying very hard to kill us all for quite some time now, actually only represent a portion of the total geth.  Mission follows.
 
What POV leads to the conclusion that the geth are not, at least, a serious potential threat? Even if you take Legion at their word, there is nothing to guarantee the geth won’t decide to wipe out a few more planets for an unrelated reason, just as any other group might.  Only the geth are powerful by nature and inscrutable by choice.

If you take Legion at their word, then the Geth hold as a core belief that ALL sentients have the right of self-determination. That pretty much precludes the possibility of the Geth ever wiping out anyone who isn't actively attacking them first.

General User wrote...

Eden Prime proved that the geth could, at any time, lash out at their neighbors.  The Council (and esp. the Alliance) governments, militaries, intelligence agencies, etc. all have a fundamental responsibility to their citizens to protect them from things like a 'robot-jihad'.

Sorry, but the Orthodox geth lost their ‘right’ (insofar as they ever had one) to be isolationist on the day the Heretics left.

No disrespect, but that is nonsense. They either have sovereign rights of a sentient species or they don't. If they do, then the right to NOT get involved with their neighbors is certainly not one that can be lost. Really, how can you argue that they lost the right to keep to themselves and NOT interact with their neighbors? You are basically saying that they are now compelled to interact with other races. Please explain this.

General User wrote...

Consider if you will; prior to the Morning War, there were (at a minimum) 2 billion quarians living on Rannoch, and an unknown number of quarians living on an unknown number of colony worlds. After the war, every single quarian still alive (approx. 17 million) was aboard the Migrant Fleet.

Well, 300 years after the war the population is 17 million. We do not have any info on how many were aboard the flotilla when it first evacuated, possibly a lot more or a lot less. But it is highly unlikely that the population has held steady at 17 million for all 300 years since the exodus.
 

General User wrote...

Wiping out +99% of a population does not simply break a people’s will to resist, it breaks their ability to resist. 
 
What scenario could account for this that does not include the geth undertaking a systematic campaign of extermination?

Here are a few:

1. Quarian military leaders resort to WMDs which take out enormous areas of their own civilian populace in order to destroy strongholds of Geth.

2. Quarians suffer from planetwide famine due to break down of their agricultural system and distribution infrastructure (possibly due at least in part to overdependence on Geth labor).

3. Quarians are subject to deadly pandemic(s) caused by collapse of distribution infrastructure and their already less-than-stellar immune systems, aggravated by poor (if any) nutrition and poor (if any) sanitation.

The second and third of those options are actually highly probable, not just possible. And really, we have no data on just how dependent the Quarians were on Geth labor to grow their food, maintain their power plants, move their freight, operate their sanitation and water facilities, keep their pharma and other manufacturing plants going and so on. The sudden removal of that labor force alone might account for anywhere from thousands to tens of millions of deaths, perhaps more if it led to cascading failures of basic services and necessities. The two key points I am trying to make here are these:

1. Enemy action is not the only, or even the most deadly, cause of friendly casualties, particularly in a planetwide war with no clear battle lines.

2. In large scale war, civilians tend to suffer and die far, FAR more than soldiers, and most often NOT due to anyone directly killing or attacking them. Disease and starvation are generally the top two causes of civilian deaths during times of total war, with weather exposure in the mix in theaters of war with less than clement climates.
 

General User wrote...

Also consider: The idea that every sub-group within an entire organic race with billions of individuals could be dedicated to a single end simply does not hold water.  Thus the overwhelmingly likelyhood becomes that entire ethnic/national/tribal groups within the quarian race were non-participants in the Morning War, and were exterminated by the geth anyway. 

First, you are assuming extermination of non-combatants, an event for which we have no evidence of any kind. But that aside, at what point is the civilian population responsible for the actions of their leaders? In your scenario the answer appears to be: never. Remember that we have evidence that the Quarians were the ones who kept prolonging and renewing this conflict, by launching fresh attacks on the Geth every time they thought they had an advantage. And apparently they lost ground with every failed attack, yet still refused to stop mounting new attacks. At what point does the civilian populace change from being innocent bystanders to being complicit by reason of their refusal to force their own leaders to stop such a cycle of insanity. And I mean "insanity" in the AA/NA sense of the word, i.e. insanity - repeating the same behavior but expecting different results.

[Pro_Consul]

Slayer299 wrote...

The Quarians overreacted in trying to deactivate all the Geth, but the Geth went about a systematic genocide of ALL Quarians, and not the military forces/factories/bases of the Quarians.

Why do you keep harping on this as if it were established fact, when in truth we have no information on this at all? You are assuming that the Geth performed systematic genocide, and then taking your assumption and presenting it as if it were established fact. And THEN you are taking that so-called "fact" and using it as the basis for a sweeping condemnation of the VICTIMS of a genocidal attack and accusing them of being genocidal monsters themselves for having the temerity to NOT just die when the Quarians were actively and with firm determination trying to exterminate them.

[Pro_Consul]

The7Sins wrote...

Sure there is. The Geth only did to the Quarians what they tried to do to themselves. That makes it justifiable. Also killing Quarian women, children, and other non combatents is a good thing to do (should be done IRL) since it ensure your sides victory that much sooner and helps to ensure there are fewer or no people that can in future generations seek revenge or the return of the hostilities and war.

Acting in accordance with your avatar...nice. And very well RPed.