368 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

The7Sins wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
Nope, sorry, I can't agree with you at all with that conclusion that it was "mass self-defense". That is just a convenient label to whitewash/justify their genocide. Using that label says that it justifies the murder of children and no, there is ZERO reasoning that can excuse that. Period. None. Whatsoever. At. All.

The Quarians overreacted in trying to deactivate all the Geth, but the Geth went about a systematic genocide of ALL Quarians, and not the military forces/factories/bases of the Quarians. 

Sure there is. The Geth only did to the Quarians what they tried to do to themselves. That makes it justifiable. Also killing Quarian women, children, and other non combatents is a good thing to do (should be done IRL) since it ensure your sides victory that much sooner and helps to ensure there are fewer or no people that can in future generations seek revenge or the return of the hostilities and war. And finally the Geth are machines so we can not try to project our (see: your) morals onto them.

What the Geth did was justified due to what war truely is. Wars IRL honestly should go about it the same way in order to ensure your sides victorey sooner and to make it so once victory is obtained the people that were beaten have souch lowered population and are so weakened they can never hope to ever retaliate in the future and make a return to hostilities for if they do they would then be wiped out. Wiping out everyone when @ war from the soldiers to the women, children, old, disabled, and mentally insanse is something that is perfectly ok in my books. However doing such should only be done in an attempt to end the war ASAP and to permanetly weaken and lower the populations of the opponents not due to forms of racism or other factors like what went on in WW2. That and similar things definetily cross the line. In short it isn't what is done but why and to an extent how that it is done that makes it wrong.

That's not justifiable. For example: When slavery in America was abolished, did the blacks try to enslave and oppress the whites for the years of slavery? No, they didn't. That's actually not a good example, but I think that this example means that the Geth didn't have to do it.

[James2912]

7sins you are one sick puppy, its one thing to support the fictional Geth but its another to start advocating the systematic murder of innocent people in real life.

[Pacifien]

Let's not bring real world sociopolitical examples into this discussion. Reacquaint yourselves with the Site Rules.

[Brohammed]

I think the morning war was bad overall.



In the current timeframe of the game, the Quarians are the bad guys.

[volus4life]

i'm confused here. didn't the quarians tried to eliminate the geth first? if the quarians tried to eliminate any semblance of sentience which the geth had achieved, the quarians basically tried to commit genocide first.



the quarians started the fight, the geth finished it. seems pretty simple to me. given how AI is outlawed or viewed by other organic races, i'm not shocked about the geth's interests in self preservation and defending their space.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

volus4life wrote...

i'm confused here. didn't the quarians tried to eliminate the geth first? if the quarians tried to eliminate any semblance of sentience which the geth had achieved, the quarians basically tried to commit genocide first.

the quarians started the fight, the geth finished it. seems pretty simple to me. given how AI is outlawed or viewed by other organic races, i'm not shocked about the geth's interests in self preservation and defending their space.

The Quarians acted out of self-preservation, too. What they tried to do was unnecessary, but understandable. But it still doesn't give the Geth a right to almost exterminate the Quarians.

[Pro_Consul]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

The Quarians acted out of self-preservation, too. What they tried to do was unnecessary, but understandable. But it still doesn't give the Geth a right to almost exterminate the Quarians.

And you still haven't shown any evidence that the Geth ever even tried to exterminate the Quarians.

[jeweledleah]

Geth didn't almost exterminate the quarians. they let quarians leave and retreated behind the veil. If legion is to be believed, they will even welcome quarians back to their homeworld, provided quarians have learned how to share and will not try to just attack them again.



the biggest problem with AI and why its so feared is that it can be corrupted far easier then organics can be. it takes what weeks of indoctrination to turn organics into slaves. it takes one little virus to change AI.



quarians reacted out of that fear. not that I condone them, I just see where that fear is coming from.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jeweledleah wrote...

Geth didn't almost exterminate the quarians. they let quarians leave and retreated behind the veil. If legion is to be believed, they will even welcome quarians back to their homeworld, provided quarians have learned how to share and will not try to just attack them again.

the biggest problem with AI and why its so feared is that it can be corrupted far easier then organics can be. it takes what weeks of indoctrination to turn organics into slaves. it takes one little virus to change AI.

quarians reacted out of that fear. not that I condone them, I just see where that fear is coming from.

This is what I'm going for.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

The Quarians acted out of self-preservation, too. What they tried to do was unnecessary, but understandable. But it still doesn't give the Geth a right to almost exterminate the Quarians.

And you still haven't shown any evidence that the Geth ever even tried to exterminate the Quarians.

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

[volus4life]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

volus4life wrote...

i'm confused here. didn't the quarians tried to eliminate the geth first? if the quarians tried to eliminate any semblance of sentience which the geth had achieved, the quarians basically tried to commit genocide first.

the quarians started the fight, the geth finished it. seems pretty simple to me. given how AI is outlawed or viewed by other organic races, i'm not shocked about the geth's interests in self preservation and defending their space.

The Quarians acted out of self-preservation, too. What they tried to do was unnecessary, but understandable. But it still doesn't give the Geth a right to almost exterminate the Quarians.

tbh, i think people view this as a double standard. if the quarians had defeated the geth, that would qualify as genocide, but i don't think we gamers would have cared as much, if at all. it'd just be a footnote in history to us. i guess this is supposed to make us wonder whether sentient AI really qualifies as a life form.

as for whether it's right, from a human point of view, i suppose it's not "right" in that a lot of quarians civilians and non-soldiers died. but geth are not human. we can judge them all we want, but the geth are a different "society" that operate by different rules.

[jeweledleah]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

not really.  Geth didn't exactly try to chase quarians down and kill off the last of the species.  they just let them go as soon as they stopped fighting and started running.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

not really.  Geth didn't exactly try to chase quarians down and kill off the last of the species.  they just let them go as soon as they stopped fighting and started running.

Not to be rude, but is there any proof of this?

[jeweledleah]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

not really.  Geth didn't exactly try to chase quarians down and kill off the last of the species.  they just let them go as soon as they stopped fighting and started running.

Not to be rude, but is there any proof of this?

conversation you have with Tali in ME1, when she joins your crew, I forgot if it was the first one, or second one

[Pro_Consul]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

No. Not remotely. I have already posted perfectly plausible ways in which the Quarian population could have been reduced to near extinction, all of which are far more common in the kind of war under discussion and all of which are more in keeping with the available facts than your extermination assertion.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

not really.  Geth didn't exactly try to chase quarians down and kill off the last of the species.  they just let them go as soon as they stopped fighting and started running.

Not to be rude, but is there any proof of this?

conversation you have with Tali in ME1, when she joins your crew, I forgot if it was the first one, or second one

I don't remember that.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

No. Not remotely. I have already posted perfectly plausible ways in which the Quarian population could have been reduced to near extinction, all of which are far more common in the kind of war under discussion and all of which are more in keeping with the available facts than your extermination assertion.

Let's not attack me here.

[jeweledleah]

here's the wiki link - I tried to find exact conversation on youtube but failed I have to downloadxfire one of these days, free version of fraps only gives you 30 seconds of video.



http://masseffect.wi...iki/Morning_War

[Pro_Consul]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

No. Not remotely. I have already posted perfectly plausible ways in which the Quarian population could have been reduced to near extinction, all of which are far more common in the kind of war under discussion and all of which are more in keeping with the available facts than your extermination assertion.

Let's not attack me here.

Ummm, where in there did I attack you? Did you click "quote" on the wrong post or something?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jeweledleah wrote...

here's the wiki link - I tried to find exact conversation on youtube but failed I have to downloadxfire one of these days, free version of fraps only gives you 30 seconds of video.

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Morning_War

That doesn't prove that the Geth didn't fight with the Quarians when they fled their homeworld. They overran their colonies, too.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Billions of Quarians to just 17 million? Isn't that proof?

No. Not remotely. I have already posted perfectly plausible ways in which the Quarian population could have been reduced to near extinction, all of which are far more common in the kind of war under discussion and all of which are more in keeping with the available facts than your extermination assertion.

Let's not attack me here.

Ummm, where in there did I attack you? Did you click "quote" on the wrong post or something?

Misinterpretation, my mistake.

[jeweledleah]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

here's the wiki link - I tried to find exact conversation on youtube but failed I have to downloadxfire one of these days, free version of fraps only gives you 30 seconds of video.

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Morning_War

That doesn't prove that the Geth didn't fight with the Quarians when they fled their homeworld. They overran their colonies, too.

they stopped the moment quarians left the former quarian space.  that doesn't sound like extermination, that sounds like hostile takeover.  if quarians had stopped fighting earlier and retereated when they had more people alive...they would have larger numbers.

[lovgreno]

To OP: From a geth perspective they certanly are justified.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

here's the wiki link - I tried to find exact conversation on youtube but failed I have to downloadxfire one of these days, free version of fraps only gives you 30 seconds of video.

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Morning_War

That doesn't prove that the Geth didn't fight with the Quarians when they fled their homeworld. They overran their colonies, too.

they stopped the moment quarians left the former quarian space.  that doesn't sound like extermination, that sounds like hostile takeover.  if quarians had stopped fighting earlier and retereated when they had more people alive...they would have larger numbers.

Which is what I mean. They stopped attacking when they left the Quarians former terriotory, not immediately after they fled the homeworld.

[jeweledleah]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...


Which is what I mean. They stopped attacking when they left the Quarians former terriotory, not immediately after they fled the homeworld.

but that doesn't equal desire to exterminate the entire species.  Geth didn't pursue remaining quarians past their new borders.  they didn't leave their borders at all before the heretic split.