450 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

James2912 wrote...

See thats why you can't argue with a fanatic they make **** up!

Let's not attack people here.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 05 février 2011 - 04:51 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

Tali is a Quarian.

True.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

Garrus is a Turian.

Also true.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

Shepard is a human.

LOL True. And Mordin is a salarian, Legion is a Geth, etc..... LOL

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

& so are you!!!

hahahahahaha!!!!! :-)

ROFL

[Pacifien]

If this is the state of the discussion right now, I'll deem that any extensive discourse is over and the thread can be locked. This is not a chatroom.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

If this is the state of the discussion right now, I'll deem that any extensive discourse is over and the thread can be locked. This is not a chatroom.

Okay. Sorry. We'll stay on topic from now on.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ah, yes. I wanted to add this, too:

The part I was unsure of was the part where Tali said that the difference between the Quarians taking off their suits on the homeworld and another world is between 60 and 600 (I'm not sure that's the right number). That was an ME2 conversation.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 05 février 2011 - 04:53 .

[Pacifien]

That's a ME2 conversation, when she discovers data on the Alarei about hacking results on geth components and she and Shepard can discuss whether the quarians taking back their homeworld is a good idea. She mentions touching and smelling flowers is something she cannot do as well.

The number never really phased me as the quarians have already been waiting for 300 years. The difference is whether it should be in Tali's lifetime or that of her descendants. As I think a war to reclaim their homeworld is foolish without something akin to Xen's plan, her descendants are gonna have to do.

Modifié par Pacifien, 05 février 2011 - 04:32 .

[V-rex]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Where does it say the Geth are cleaning up the Quarian homeworld so they can return? What source is this from?

It doesn't say that anywhere.

... and you guys actually wonder why so many people hate the Tali fanbase.
 Seriously just dismissing someone's argument and going ahead and making personal insults against them indirectly while adding a little 'smiley face' does not paint your position in a positive light. So much for being 'open minded' huh?
No I don't actually think that the Tali fanbase deserves its bad reputation (in fact I actually feel sorry for them because I, as a Halo fan, know what it is to be bullied because people think bullying you for being a fan of something popular is the 'cool' thing to do), but if you waltz around with this kind of attitude while proudly featuring a Tali love banner beneath you, I can't say it's surprising.

Also James 2912, calling someone a 'fanatic' just because they happen to be disagreeing with you on one point doesn't hold much water, especially if you are ready to actually bring up World War 2 and equate anyone who doesn't agree with your position that they are 'N A Z I S'.
Trying to plant seeds of racist accusations into your oppostion is a pretty low way of trying to argue. Further more labelling anyone who does support the Geth in any way as N A Z I's is kind of a fanatical thing to do.

Also Rameriez, I refuse to believe that you SERIOUSLY don't know where that part about the Geth being the 'caretakers' for the Quarian homeworld comes from. It's from the same place everyone has ever gotten information from the Geth since Mass Effect 2. It's Legion.
When asked about the Quarian/Geth war Legion acknowledges that after the war ended and the Quarians fled, the Geth have been taking care of the planet. While most remain on space stations, others go about rebuilding and maintaining the planet as a seeming memorial to the Quarians lost there and they seem to be anticipating some kind of return.
And frankly, I see no reason not to believe Legion on this. I'm sick of the argument of 'we only have this one Geth's view to go on' as a excuse not to trust him. In Mass Effect 1 all we had was Tali's views to gather a complete understanding of the Quarians, a race that otherwise has the reputation of being untrustworthy thieves and beggars?
I doubt Legion is any more biased about the subject matter than say, Tali. In fact he even seems to acknowledge his own kind's crimes during this war, whereas Tali continuously tries to deny that the Geth were wronged in any way.

As far as 'making stuff up' goes, most of what you are presenting as 'evidence' so far is based on assumptions. Assumptions that the Geth went around devouring the souls of innocent rosy cheeked little Quarian youngsters, or that there was a specific point between when the Geth 'defeated' the Quarian government and when they decided to go all Dr. Evil on the Quarian population which now consisted of not a single fighting force, or army, or local militia, or scientists working on super weapons or anything of that description.

That instead literally any sembelence to a fighting force that would continue to oppose the Geth just vanished, leaving behind only terrified unorganized civilians. If you ask me, I think it is more than percievable that the Quarians were fighting tooth and nail and claw, presumably they would have been trying just as hard to wipe out the Geth. According to Legion whenever the Quarians thought they had an upper hand they would continue to fight, also according to Legion 98% of all Quarian/Geth conflicts were instigated by the Quarians.
I mean if the fact that the tiny number of survivng Quarians with weakened immune systems, aged weapons and generally useless fleet are still eager to go to war then, even with such ridiculous odds against them. I find it hard to believe that three hundred years ago back when there were still billions that the same wouldn't apply.

I'm not going to call this fact but I will say that there is at least a very good chance of that. Plus considering Legion is built with actual recorded memories of the events in question (at one point pulling up an audio log of the first time a Quarian panicked at the Geth being sentient) I would consider his recount of events to possibly be more reliable. For all we know the Quarians might be making it sound worse than it is, after all when you lost that badly and are filled with that much resentment you'd be amazed at how far people are ready to leap through mental hoops to convince themselves that they were the moral upper hand.

Rather than both sides being on equal par for the:
"Who is the biggest dick?"
Competetion for which I still think they are. Both sides committed crimes and both sides have wronged the other, no one owns the moral high ground. Geth were being just as much dicks as were the Quarians. Okay?
If both sides would stop being dicks to each other then this galaxy could breathe a sigh of relief.
From what it sounds like, the Geth have stopped conflicts with the Quarians and are no longer interested in war. But they won't make any kind of move until they are sure that the Quarians want to make peace as well.

So if you ask me, while dickishness surrounds both sides like a Herculean slab of throbbing German sausage. I'd still call the Geth slighty less dickish then the Quarians.

Hence, to bring this back on topic, is why I would side with the Geth in the event of a genocidal war instigated by the Quarians. In addition to the Quarians having no chance nor real moral justification for waging a war, I don't want to make the galactic superpower with endless supplies of soldiers and super advanced technology to have reason to look upon me as its enemy.

As for whether or not it was the Geth attacking the Quarians, then I would probably side with the Quarians because whatever risk the Geth pose to the Quarians is equal to any it could pose anyone else. It all depends on who is the instigator. I just feel it would be more likely to be the Quarians instigating at this point. If Admiral Xen is any indication at least.

Modifié par V-rex, 05 février 2011 - 04:40 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

That's a ME2 conversation, when she discovers data on the Alarei about hacking results on geth components and she and Shepard can discuss whether the quarians taking back their homeworld is a good idea. She mentions touching and smelling flowers is something she cannot do as well.

The number never really phased me as the quarians have already been waiting for 300 years. The difference is whether it should be in Tali's lifetime or that of her descendants. As I think a war to reclaim their homeworld is foolish without something akin to Xen's plan, her descendants are gonna have to do.

Where am I at today? I'm a little off. Also, a war with the Geth isn't a great idea. But I'd rather the Quarians win because I find the Geth to be more threatening and rewriting the heretics (if that's what you did) just furhter increases the strenght and threat level.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

V-rex wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Where does it say the Geth are cleaning up the Quarian homeworld so they can return? What source is this from?

It doesn't say that anywhere.

... and you guys actually wonder why so many people hate the Tali fanbase.
 Seriously just dismissing someone's argument and going ahead and making personal insults against them indirectly while adding a little 'smiley face' does not paint your position in a positive light. So much for being 'open minded' huh?
No I don't actually think that the Tali fanbase deserves its bad reputation, but if you waltz around with this kind of attitude while proudly featuring a Tali love banner beneath you, I can't say it's surprising.

Also James 2912, calling someone a 'fanatic' just because they happen to be disagreeing with you on one point doesn't hold much water, especially if you are ready to actually bring up World War 2 and equate anyone who doesn't agree with your position that they are 'N A Z I S'.
Trying to plant seeds of racist accusations into your oppostion is a pretty low way of trying to argue.

Also Rameriez, I refuse to believe that you SERIOUSLY don't know where that part about the Geth being the 'caretakers' for the Quarian homeworld comes from. It's from the same place everyone has ever gotten information from the Geth since Mass Effect 2. It's Legion.
When asked about the Quarian/Geth war Legion acknowledges that after the war ended and the Quarians fled, the Geth have been taking care of the planet. While most remain on space stations, others go about rebuilding and maintaining the planet as a seeming memorial to the Quarians lost there and they seem to be anticipating some kind of return.
And frankly, I see no reason not to believe Legion on this. I'm sick of the argument of 'we only have this one Geth's view to go on' as a excuse not to trust him. In Mass Effect 1 all we had was Tali's views to gather a complete understanding of the Quarians, a race that otherwise has the reputation of being untrustworthy thieves and beggars?
I doubt Legion is any more biased about the subject matter than say, Tali. In fact he even seems to acknowledge his own kind's crimes during this war, whereas Tali continuously tries to deny that the Geth were wronged in any way.

As far as 'making stuff up' goes, most of what you are presenting as 'evidence' so far is based on assumptions. Assumptions that the Geth went around devouring the souls of innocent rosy cheeked little Quarian youngsters, or that there was a specific point between when the Geth 'defeated' the Quarian government and when they decided to go all Dr. Evil on the Quarian population which now consisted of not a single fighting force, or army, or local militia, or scientists working on super weapons or anything of that description.

That instead literally any sembelence to a fighting force that would continue to oppose the Geth just vanished, leaving behind only terrified unorganized civilians. If you ask me, I think it is more than percievable that the Quarians were fighting tooth and nail and claw, presumably they would have been trying just as hard to wipe out the Geth. According to Legion whenever the Quarians thought they had an upper hand they would continue to fight, also according to Legion 98% of all Quarian/Geth conflicts were instigated by the Quarians.
I mean if the fact that the tiny number of survivng Quarians with weakened immune systems, aged weapons and generally useless fleet are still eager to go to war then, even with such ridiculous odds against them. I find it hard to believe that three hundred years ago back when there were still billions that the same wouldn't apply.

I'm not going to call this fact but I will say that there is at least a very good chance of that. Plus considering Legion is built with actual recorded memories of the events in question (at one point pulling up an audio log of the first time a Quarian panicked at the Geth being sentient) I would consider his recount of events to possibly be more reliable. For all we know the Quarians might be making it sound worse than it is, after all when you lost that badly and are filled with that much resentment you'd be amazed at how far people are ready to leap through mental hoops to convince themselves that they were the moral upper hand.

Rather than both sides being on equal par for the:
"Who is the biggest dick?"
Competetion for which I still think they are. Both sides committed crimes and both sides have wronged the other, no one owns the moral high ground. Geth were being just as much dicks as were the Quarians. Okay?
If both sides would stop being dicks to each other then this galaxy could breathe a sigh of relief.
From what it sounds like, the Geth have stopped conflicts with the Quarians and are no longer interested in war. But they won't make any kind of move until they are sure that the Quarians want to make peace as well.

So if you ask me, while dickishness surrounds both sides like a Herculean slab of throbbing German sausage. I'd still call the Geth slighty less dickish then the Quarians.

Hence, to bring this back on topic, is why I would side with the Geth in the event of a genocidal war instigated by the Quarians. In addition to the Quarians having no chance nor real moral justification for waging a war, I don't want to make the galactic superpower with endless supplies of soldiers and super advanced technology to have reason to look upon me as its enemy.

As for whether or not it was the Geth attacking the Quarians, then I would probably side with the Quarians because whatever risk the Geth pose to the Quarians is equal to any it could pose anyone else. It all depends on who is the instigator. I just feel it would be more likely to be the Quarians instigating at this point. If Admiral Xen is any indication at least.

1) I didn't attack anybody

2) That's not what was meant. What was meant was the Geth taking care of it so the Quarians could have it back if there was peace.

[V-rex]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

1) I didn't attack anybody

Okay, maybe not directly. But neither did you call James out on calling that other user a 'fanatic' and when he said 'fanatics lie' you said 'LOL'. That can easily be attributed to insulting someone, whether you meant to or not.

2) That's not what was meant. What was meant was the Geth taking care of it so the Quarians could have it back if there was peace.

Which is what Legion said the Geth are doing. In addition to having it serve as a memorial the Geth seem to be preparing it for the 'eventuality' of their return.

Modifié par V-rex, 05 février 2011 - 04:46 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

V-rex wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

1) I didn't attack anybody

Okay, maybe not directly. But neither did you call James out on calling that other user a 'fanatic' and when he said 'fanatics lie' you said 'LOL'. That can easily be attributed to insulting someone, whether you meant to or not.

2) That's not what was meant. What was meant was the Geth taking care of it so the Quarians could have it back if there was peace.

Which is what Legion said the Geth are doing. In addition to having it serve as a memorial the Geth seem to be preparing it for the 'eventuality' of their return.

1) I see what you mean and I will change my previous posts.

2) Not to be rude, but can I get some confirmation on this?

[James2912]

I didn't call you a n a z i. I called the Geth space n a z is. And you are fanatical in your defense of the Geth look how much you have written on the topic!

[V-rex]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Snip

I can't find a direct quote but here it is from the Mass Effect wiki:

"Legion likens this behavior to the human tendency to establish
cemeteries and memorials to commemorate dead persons and tragic events.
However, since geth do not "die" in any traditional sense (upon the
destruction of a geth platform, its programs are simply transmitted to
the nearest available platform) and so have no real losses to mourn from
the Morning War, Legion posits that they instead clean and maintain the
quarian worlds out of respect for their quarian creators who died in
the conflict and in preparation for the eventuality of their return."

[wulf3n]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
 But I'd rather the Quarians win because I find the Geth to be more threatening and rewriting the heretics (if that's what you did) just furhter increases the strenght and threat level.

I find the quarians more threatening. A massive fleet of genocidal nomads, with no remorse for past crimes. Sure the geth attacked us, but i feel they had a pretty good excuse. "The pinnacle of our evolution, and practically a god, told us to do it", i mean how would humans react if god came to earth, told us all we had to do to get into heaven is kill a few people we don't even like. compare that to the quarian ideology of"Holy S**T we created a sentient being that won't be satisfied as our slaves so we better destroy them all to be safe" and "They're evil because we tried to destroy them and they fought back, i hope they all die"

Modifié par wulf3n, 05 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

V-rex wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Snip

I can't find a direct quote but here it is from the Mass Effect wiki:

"Legion likens this behavior to the human tendency to establish
cemeteries and memorials to commemorate dead persons and tragic events.
However, since geth do not "die" in any traditional sense (upon the
destruction of a geth platform, its programs are simply transmitted to
the nearest available platform) and so have no real losses to mourn from
the Morning War, Legion posits that they instead clean and maintain the
quarian worlds out of respect for their quarian creators who died in
the conflict and in preparation for the eventuality of their return."

I will take that as legitimate proof. But on the other hand, it still doesn't mean they are not a bigger threat.

[James2912]

wulf3n wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
 But I'd rather the Quarians win because I find the Geth to be more threatening and rewriting the heretics (if that's what you did) just furhter increases the strenght and threat level.

I find the quarians more threatening. A massive fleet of genocidal nomads, with no remorse for past crimes. Sure the geth attacked us, but i feel they had a pretty good excuse. "The pinnacle of our evolution, and practically a god, told us to do it" compared to "Holy S**T we created a sentient being that won't be satisfied as our slaves so we better destroy them all to be safe" and "They're evil because we tried to destroy them and they fought back, i hope they all die"

Uhm the Quarians tried to kill a bunch of computers, not real living beings. while the Geth have the power and resources to possibly to destroy humanity and have no problem destroying whole worlds of  biological life forms. The quarians are space bums they are no threat.

[wulf3n]

James2912 wrote...
Uhm the Quarians tried to kill a bunch of computers, not real living beings. while the Geth have the power and resources to possibly to destroy humanity and have no problem destroying whole worlds of  biological life forms. The quarians are space bums they are no threat.

I didn't say "living" i said sentient.

And the quarians have the largest fleet in the galaxy even with a large number of ships being cargo and living quarters they still have the most dangerous fleet in the galaxy, not to mention having the desperation of a wounded animal. How long will it be before they can no longer afford to mooch resources of weak systems to survive, what do you think they will do when the only planets they can get food from are council planets, do you think they will just let themselves die?

Modifié par wulf3n, 05 février 2011 - 05:06 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

wulf3n wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
 But I'd rather the Quarians win because I find the Geth to be more threatening and rewriting the heretics (if that's what you did) just furhter increases the strenght and threat level.

I find the quarians more threatening. A massive fleet of genocidal nomads, with no remorse for past crimes. Sure the geth attacked us, but i feel they had a pretty good excuse. "The pinnacle of our evolution, and practically a god, told us to do it" compared to "Holy S**T we created a sentient being that won't be satisfied as our slaves so we better destroy them all to be safe" and "They're evil because we tried to destroy them and they fought back, i hope they all die"

I misspelled some words (dammit). The Geth are the most advanced sentient species besides the Reapers. The Quarians are not. They are also less likely to threaten the galaxy because the other races have:

1) Better equipped soldiers
2) Better tech
3)Superior numbers