450 réponses à ce sujet

[shatteredstar56]

Spideywebs wrote...

 Though the Geth are millions of years behind in evolution, the reapers could have had very similar beginnings. Legion told my Shepard that they did not want to join the "old machines" because they wanted to reach their societal objective by themselves, without the reapers' aid. That doesn't mean that the Geth won't eventually share some similarities with the reapers after millions of years of evolution (if they live that long, and if up to me they wouldn't). Eventually they will need more resources as they grow and become more complex, and I doubt they would compromise with organics to obtain these.

Agreed, they haven't negotiated with anyone before now, it's doubtful they will when it's easier for them to just take, as they have been for years and years.

It's hard to imagine machines evolving, though, since organic races do that naturally through billions of years and changing circumstances.  The machines would just have to build on themselves.

[xedgorex]

The geth don't even want to be on the Quarian homeworld, they're just keeping it clean. So why do you keep pointing out that they have to fight over it. I'm positive that the Geth would gladly give it back if the Quarians would promise not to nuke the hell out of their space station.

[Spideywebs]

Yeah, when I say "evolving", I mean that they will build on themselves to make themselves more powerful and efficient. It makes sense to me that the reapers started off virtually the same as the Geth, and eventually turned into the galactic scourge that they are today.

shatteredstar56 wrote...

Spideywebs wrote...

 Though the Geth are millions of years behind in evolution, the reapers could have had very similar beginnings. Legion told my Shepard that they did not want to join the "old machines" because they wanted to reach their societal objective by themselves, without the reapers' aid. That doesn't mean that the Geth won't eventually share some similarities with the reapers after millions of years of evolution (if they live that long, and if up to me they wouldn't). Eventually they will need more resources as they grow and become more complex, and I doubt they would compromise with organics to obtain these.

Agreed, they haven't negotiated with anyone before now, it's doubtful they will when it's easier for them to just take, as they have been for years and years.

It's hard to imagine machines evolving, though, since organic races do that naturally through billions of years and changing circumstances.  The machines would just have to build on themselves.

[xedgorex]

The quarian / geth issue reminds me of those video shorts explaining the beginning of the Matrix.



It's obvious that the Geth see no purpose in killing organics and want to just mind their own business, and it's pure conjecture on anyones part that they will follow the path of the repearers and mess shish up. In reality (with the knowledge we have in game) the only threat the Geth pose is due largely to the Quarians. If you can't move on and let go and realize they dont want to fight or want your planet, you deserve your fate.



I'd side with the Geth if you HAD to choose a side because they don't show a pattern of vindictiveness, isolationism, and borderline psychopathy.

[shatteredstar56]

xedgorex wrote...

The geth don't even want to be on the Quarian homeworld, they're just keeping it clean. So why do you keep pointing out that they have to fight over it. I'm positive that the Geth would gladly give it back if the Quarians would promise not to nuke the hell out of their space station.

Then the geth should have sent a white flag out their door a long time ago.  If they don't want it so much, why don't they just leave?  The quarians are fighting to get their planet back, but the geth can leave any time they like, so what do they gain by remaining in a war with the quarians over something they supposedly don't even want?
I'm not saying your point isn't valid, but I don't think that it makes sense.

@Spidey

It can't really be called evolution, since that suggests a huge time space involved, and the geth could change themselves to be a super race in one human life time.

[Spideywebs]

Haha, tha's and interesting idea, though I think mine is a tad more plausible. Regardless, this thread is about who we would side with. Without quesion, I would support the quarians. I think the Geth will remain a threat, and I didn't really trust Legion on my ship. I especially didn't like the communication Legion was trying to have with EDI (per the Shadow Broker files), since it portrayed that Legion didn't view the organics as equal, at least in my opinion.

I can't really swallow that the Reapers were made by organics for the purpose to purge the galaxy of organic life every 50,000 years. They appear to me as an AI species that became too powerful. Bring down the Geth!
 

mangeo wrote...

Here is my most thought about & likely theory about the Reapers origin....Plot wise any way.....

Here is my opinion....

The earliest organic life in our galaxy became so amazingly advanced beyond our wildest dreams
& eventualy there was a massive falling out & a huge war that span for decades over the entire galaxy
& when the war finaly ended,the victors built giant machines & programed them to wipe out all organic life every fifty thousand years or so in order to save the galaxy from itself....That explains the civil unrest
Across all of the species in the galaxy through the first & second game......It is happening again
& it is time for the reapers to come in & clean up.......
So yes my idea is that WE created the Reapers to save us from our own destructive organic nature.....

Hows that? 

[Schneidend]

xedgorex wrote...

If you can't move on and let go and realize they dont want to fight or want your planet, you deserve your fate.

I'd side with the Geth if you HAD to choose a side because they don't show a pattern of vindictiveness, isolationism, and borderline psychopathy.

In the defense of the quarians, they have no idea the geth don't want Rannah. Geth don't normally speak.

[Spideywebs]

Well, evolution doesn't necessarily have to take place over a long period of time, you are being too literal But you get the idea where I was heading. To me, it didn't make sense that the Geth were merely taking care of the quarian planet until the "creators" return. Like shattered said, why wouldn't the Geth communicate this intention if it were so.

shatteredstar56 wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

The geth don't even want to be on the Quarian homeworld, they're just keeping it clean. So why do you keep pointing out that they have to fight over it. I'm positive that the Geth would gladly give it back if the Quarians would promise not to nuke the hell out of their space station.

Then the geth should have sent a white flag out their door a long time ago.  If they don't want it so much, why don't they just leave?  The quarians are fighting to get their planet back, but the geth can leave any time they like, so what do they gain by remaining in a war with the quarians over something they supposedly don't even want?
I'm not saying your point isn't valid, but I don't think that it makes sense.

@Spidey

It can't really be called evolution, since that suggests a huge time space involved, and the geth could change themselves to be a super race in one human life time.

[Moiaussi]

Spideywebs wrote...

The Geth I believe will eventually evolve into reaper like beings. The reapers probably started with similar beginnings and became what they are after thousands if not millions of years. I wouldn't trust the Geth, there is no way to guarantee that they wont attack if they see the various organic races as a threat. They aren't guided by morals, they are guided by logic.

Consider how much of Shepard is artificial or replacement parts at this point rather than OEM. What makes you think the Geth are any more likely to go that route than humans?

And organic races see organic races as threats. Xenophobia isn't restricted to organic vs inorganic.

As for morality, morality is logic developed over millenia, solving the equation of how to maintain the complex system of inter-human and inter-species interaction.

[Spideywebs]

Good points. I think the humans are a great threat to the rest of the galaxy, especially with having people like TIM walking around. That said, I'm human, and I think the Geth are more of a threat that the quarians

And ofcourse there is conflict between organics, but that can't sometimes be settled through mediation, even though one side may be vastly superior to the other. With the Geth, if they think it is probable that they will emerge victorious, they will sieze their opportunity. At least that is my take of the Geth.

Moiaussi wrote...

Spideywebs wrote...

The Geth I believe will eventually evolve into reaper like beings. The reapers probably started with similar beginnings and became what they are after thousands if not millions of years. I wouldn't trust the Geth, there is no way to guarantee that they wont attack if they see the various organic races as a threat. They aren't guided by morals, they are guided by logic.

Consider how much of Shepard is artificial or replacement parts at this point rather than OEM. What makes you think the Geth are any more likely to go that route than humans?

And organic races see organic races as threats. Xenophobia isn't restricted to organic vs inorganic.

As for morality, morality is logic developed over millenia, solving the equation of how to maintain the complex system of inter-human and inter-species interaction.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

DPSSOC wrote...

Yeah, cause the Geth hold the bulk of their attention but with them gone, the Quarians will take the culture of hate they've built up on their little ships, combined with the euphoria of having beaten their greatest enemy, and find new targets to focus on.  The Council races would likely be the first hit but who knows what the Quarians will percieve as an injustice.

Can you name any race that has only gone to war twice in their entire time on the galactic stage?  Their entire existence?  Yes the Morning war was brutal but so were the Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellions.  Not to mention the Turian civil war (can't remember what it was called).

The Quarians are not a war like race. They hate the Geth because they exterminated their people and drove them into exile. Any race should hate the geth for doing that to them. There is no evidence that the Quarians hate the rest of the Citadel races with any sort of passion.

It doesn't really matter how many times they went to war. Especially since the Morning War, the Krogan Rebellions adn the Rachni Wars, were all started by someone else. The difference is they wiped out every quarian man woman and child, with the Rachni there weren't any alternatives because the entre race was intoctrinated. The Geth certtainly did have them.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 03 février 2011 - 06:30 .

[Nerevar-as]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Quarians are not a war like race. They hate the Geth because they exterminated their people and drove them into exile. Any race should hate the geth for doing that to them. There is no evidence that the Quarians hate the rest of the Citadel races with any sort of passion.

It doesn't really matter how many times they went to war. Especially since the Morning War, the Krogan Rebellions adn the Rachni Wars, were all started by someone else. The difference is they wiped out every quarian man woman and child, with the Rachni there weren't any alternatives because the entre race was intoctrinated. The Geth certtainly did have them.

There´s no high moral ground here. Quarians lost theirs when they tried to genocide the geth, the geth when they almost did the same. But most geth seem happy to be left alone, while most quarians still want to genocide/reenslave them, Qwib Qwib aside. Shepard should make them watch BSG.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The quarians didn't deserve to be exterminated just because the geth didn't deserve it either. And just because the geth, don't have any specific desire to attack organics now doesn't absolve them of their crimes against the quarians in the past. Neither does the fact that the quarians started the war.



I don't believe that any real world peoples forfeit there right to existence because some of them committed genocide, so I don't believe the same is true for the entirety of the quarians either.



In the 20th century alone, several races and nations are guilty of genocide. Had any of them been all but exterminated in the ensuing conflicts, that wouldn't have been any "better" a turn of events than what actually happened.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

YAY my thread isn't locked! And it's legitimate! Thanks to all of you for posting comments!

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Spideywebs wrote...

The Geth I believe will eventually evolve into reaper like beings. The reapers probably started with similar beginnings and became what they are after thousands if not millions of years. I wouldn't trust the Geth, there is no way to guarantee that they wont attack if they see the various organic races as a threat. They aren't guided by morals, they are guided by logic.

^ This. Definitely.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

Wow someone slept in...

ROFL I stayed up too late last night!

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 03 février 2011 - 07:26 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

xedgorex wrote...

The geth don't even want to be on the Quarian homeworld, they're just keeping it clean. So why do you keep pointing out that they have to fight over it. I'm positive that the Geth would gladly give it back if the Quarians would promise not to nuke the hell out of their space station.

If I remember correctly (I may be wrong on this, if I am, I'm sorry), during the confrontation between Legion and Tali, Legion says "it's no longer your planet" or something like that.

EDIT: IGNORE THIS STATEMENT IT IS INCORRECT.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 03 février 2011 - 07:45 .

[Rune-Chan]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

The geth don't even want to be on the Quarian homeworld, they're just keeping it clean. So why do you keep pointing out that they have to fight over it. I'm positive that the Geth would gladly give it back if the Quarians would promise not to nuke the hell out of their space station.

If I remember correctly (I may be wrong on this, if I am, I'm sorry), during the confrontation between Legion and Tali, Legion says "it's no longer your planet" or something like that.

I honestly do not recall that.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

The geth don't even want to be on the Quarian homeworld, they're just keeping it clean. So why do you keep pointing out that they have to fight over it. I'm positive that the Geth would gladly give it back if the Quarians would promise not to nuke the hell out of their space station.

If I remember correctly (I may be wrong on this, if I am, I'm sorry), during the confrontation between Legion and Tali, Legion says "it's no longer your planet" or something like that.

I honestly do not recall that.

Like I said, I might be wrong. I'll have to remember where I found that.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't remember seeing any line like that in a confrontation between Legion and Tali, but Legion does mention to Shepard that he doesn't understand why the Quarians are so obsessed with Rannoch when none of them have ever been there. So essentially he says it is no longer their planet, but I'd say it's more about him stating literal facts rather than making a claim of ownership.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 03 février 2011 - 07:42 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't remember seeing any line like that in a confrontation between Legion and Tali, but Legion does mention to Shepard that he doesn't understand why the Quarians are so obsessed with Rannoch when none of them have ever been there. So essentially he says it is no longer their planet, but I'd say it's more about him stating literal facts rather than making a claim of ownership.

Like I said, I think I'm wrong.