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[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

When you meet Tali on Haestrom, she and her team were investigating a dying sun, which isn't a hostile act. THe Geth attacked them. Also, you have to remember that Shepard's ship, the Normandy, is probably the most advanced ship in the galaxy (thanks to Cerberus resources). Either way, killing anyone who enters isn't exactly self-defense. May be the people entering were just looking for salvage, trading with Geth, etc. and the Geth kill them.

What we need to know is if Haestrom was heretic or true Geth. I'm not sure which group it was. Also Tali went there with a group of marines and went into what they knew was Geth terrority. (Plus their Quarians. I doubt they were peaceful regardless).

And once again we don't know.

If they were trading with Geth we'd know about it. They'd have to come back at some time to get supplies and what not. Don't pull things out of nowhere.

As for salvage: Who exactly would go into geth controlled space where people are said to disappear for salvage? 

The you have a point with the normandy.

 When I said trading, I meant trying to trade or even just contact them (though I didn't say that). Also Tali or Kal'reegar said that they tried to slip past the Geth, which to me indicates that they were committing no hostile action against the Geth at that time. Also, Cerberus was studying Geth technology. They are definitely ones capable of entering Geth Space looking for "salvage" (I put it in parentheses only because that could be interpreted in many ways).

[Ryzaki]

True Geth and Heretics are not the same.

Haestrom had Heretics on it.

Where are the True Geth...probably deeper in the Veil. But Shepard never ran into any True Geth until he met Legion. A platform specifically designed to interact with him.

Also: Cerberus? Peaceful? Excuse me while I laugh myself to death.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2011 - 07:36 .

[Pro_Consul]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

@ Zing, the Quarians haven't hit their technological peak, now they are even more technologically advanced. Evidence of this is that they have Geth tech repurposed for them and Rael'Zorah actually discovered a way to repossess the Geth forces

No, he didn't. That is how he died, after all, thinking he had made this great discovery only to find out the Geth were immune to it.

When the Quarians first tried to commit genocide on the Geth, there were billions of Quarians and they had numerical parity, if not outright superiority, with the Geth. And they got their own race darned near wiped out. Now there are only about 17 million Quarians alive, including rug rats and gaffers, they have no base from which to fight, they have no immune systems and the Geth have advanced greatly in both technology and numbers. For the Quarians to restart their war of genocide under these conditions, for them to even hint that they MIGHT do such a thing, is just plain suicidal.  Tali was right to try to stop Legion from reporting back to the Geth on Quarians plans and intentions, since those plans were so blatantly hostile and provocative that they were practically begging the Geth to preempt them.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

True Geth and Heretics are not the same.

Haestrom had Heretics on it.

Where are the True Geth...probably deeper in the Veil. But Shepard never ran into any True Geth until he met Legion. A platform specifically designed to interact with him.

Also: Cerberus? Peaceful? Excuse me while I laugh myself to death.

You and I both know that Cerberus isn't peaceful. That's not what I meant. I was just providing an example of a group that would venture into Geth space for any reason. Also, Legion doesn't say that the "true" Geth never killed anyone for entering their space. Also, Legion said that he hasn't linked up with the other Geth in a while (I think). Who's to say that the Geth on Haestrom weren't true Geth?

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You and I both know that Cerberus isn't peaceful. That's not what I meant. I was just providing an example of a group that would venture into Geth space for any reason. Also, Legion doesn't say that the "true" Geth never killed anyone for entering their space. Also, Legion said that he hasn't linked up with the other Geth in a while (I think). Who's to say that the Geth on Haestrom weren't true Geth?

A group that would attack any Geth they saw or attempt to capture them on sight you mean? 

Legion doesn't say that no but all those Geth Shepard saw attacking people were heretics. There's no proof the TG didn't attack anyone in anything other than self-defense. Considering the Veil has both heretic geth and TG and the two groups seperated (probably moving away from each other with the HG closer to the edge of the veil where they could attack humans more easily) one would see it as being a rare opporunity for the TG to actually interact with humans in anything other than their social experiments.

Uh...the fact that Shep meets them *before* meeting Legion who is a platform of the "TG." I'm pretty sure if they had saw Shep they'd have mentioned it to Legion (not to mention they wouldn't have attacked the guy they wanted help from!)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2011 - 07:45 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

True Geth and Heretics are not the same.

Haestrom had Heretics on it.

Where are the True Geth...probably deeper in the Veil. But Shepard never ran into any True Geth until he met Legion. A platform specifically designed to interact with him.

Also: Cerberus? Peaceful? Excuse me while I laugh myself to death.

You and I both know that Cerberus isn't peaceful. That's not what I meant. I was just providing an example of a group that would venture into Geth space for any reason. Also, Legion doesn't say that the "true" Geth never killed anyone for entering their space. Also, Legion said that he hasn't linked up with the other Geth in a while (I think). Who's to say that the Geth on Haestrom weren't true Geth?

A group that would attack any Geth they saw or attempt to capture them on sight you mean? 

Legion doesn't say that no but all those Geth Shepard saw attacking people were heretics. There's no proof the TG didn't attack anyone in anything other than self-defense.

Uh...the fact that Shep meets them *before* meeting Legion who is a platform of the "TG." I'm pretty sure if they had saw Shep they'd have mentioned it to Legion (not to mention they wouldn't have attacked the guy they wanted help from!)

Legion had been running around looking for Shepard. How could the other Geth have contacted him?

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Legion had been running around looking for Shepard. How could the other Geth have contacted him?

Ah true. Regardless the Geth themselves wouldn't have attacked Shepard if they were TG.

Though Legion really should've had some way of contacting them...damn his dialogue for being so hard to trigger. /resigns self to another playthrough.

I always get the view that heretics and TG probably have very different technology due to the uplifting the heretics got from the Reapers.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2011 - 07:49 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Legion had been running around looking for Shepard. How could the other Geth have contacted him?

Ah true. Regardless the Geth themselves wouldn't have attacked Shepard if they were TG.

I always get the view that heretics and TG probably have very different technology due to the uplifting the heretics got from the Reapers.

Legion also gathered data on Shepard. The other Geth may no have known who he was becuast they didn't expect to see him in Geth space.

[Ryzaki]

...He gathered that data before he left.

Gah this damn post got eaten.

I meant to say he was built to find Shepard. The chances of him not knowing what Shepard looked like before he left Geth space is ridculously low.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2011 - 07:51 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

...He gathered that data before he left.

Before he left where? Geth territory? And why would they have that data?

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...He gathered that data before he left.

Before he left where? Geth territory? And why would they have that data?

Because he was looking for Shepard? Because they "watched" organics? Because the geth aren't idiots and sending Legion on a wild goose chase? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2011 - 07:52 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...He gathered that data before he left.

Before he left where? Geth territory? And why would they have that data?

Because he was looking for Shepard? Because they "watched" organics? 

Legion was made directly to interact with Shepard (as you have earlier stated), but that doesn't mean that the TG were made that way. Also the Geth did fire on Shepard when they saw he was working with the Quarians on Haestrom. There's no garauntee that those weren't TG.

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Legion was made directly to interact with Shepard (as you have earlier stated), but that doesn't mean that the TG were made that way. Also the Geth did fire on Shepard when they saw he was working with the Quarians on Haestrom. There's no garauntee that those weren't TG.

No they weren't Legion tells you this. But he was built so they could have an envoy to ally themselves with Shepard.

Also there's no guarantee they weren't HG. The chance that they weren't is higher than the chance that they are. (Ironically if you hack the game and recruit Legion earlier and yes he has dialogue on Haestrom, gives no evidence that the geth are anything other than heretics). If they had been TG they would've had different technologies than the geth you fight on the heretic station. Yet...they didn't. Despite the fact that the TG didn't recieve Sovereign's tech.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Legion was made directly to interact with Shepard (as you have earlier stated), but that doesn't mean that the TG were made that way. Also the Geth did fire on Shepard when they saw he was working with the Quarians on Haestrom. There's no garauntee that those weren't TG.

No they weren't Legion tells you this. But he was built so they could have an envoy to ally themselves with Shepard.

Also there's no guarantee they weren't HG. The chance that they weren't is higher than the chance that they are. (Ironically if you hack the game and recruit Legion earlier and yes he has dialogue on Haestrom, gives no evidence that the geth are anything other than heretics). If they had been TG they would've had different technologies than the geth you fight on the heretic station. Yet...they didn't. Despite the fact that the TG didn't recieve Sovereign's tech.

 It seems about 50/50 to me. Also, Legion seemed to have the same tech as the ones we fight on Haestrom. I don't see any distinct factor that can clearly state which Geth faction has the Reaper tech and who doesn't.

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
 It seems about 50/50 to me. Also, Legion seemed to have the same tech as the ones we fight on Haestrom. I don't see any distinct factor that can clearly state which Geth faction has the Reaper tech and who doesn't.

Eh.

/shrugs Well to each his own.

My inital point was the Geth make far more valuable allies than the foolish Quarians.

[Pro_Consul]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

It seems about 50/50 to me. Also, Legion seemed to have the same tech as the ones we fight on Haestrom. I don't see any distinct factor that can clearly state which Geth faction has the Reaper tech and who doesn't.

The ones attacking Tali's team on Haestrom are presumably doing so to prevent investigation of how that star was tampered with and its life shortened from billions of years to mere centuries. The tech used was apparently based on dark energy and was so far beyond anything Tali had seen before that she had no clue how it was done. I seriously doubt the TG have advanced that far, but it seems quite plausible that the Reapers shared such info with the heretics. So my figuring is that the heretics are the odds-on favorites to be the ones attacking nosy Quarian scientists on Haestrom.

[Zing Freelancer]

Geth can communicate vocally, though they consider it to be highly inefficient. Remember Legion playing a recording where Geth asks about "What is a soul?" then he says it was the first time when Creators become scared of Geth.



In ME1 we see Heretics do some kind of "Worship" as commented by your crew, so they do culturally evolve. Legion quoted bible when EDI named him, they try to learn and find out where they belong.

But Geth are fundamentally different from organics because they lack any individuality.

Everything they know, everything they see are shared among each other, thus it is hard for them to copperhead some of organics values.





Also it was said by Legion that normal Geth unit is simply a hardware and can run up to 100 programs, Legion can run over a 1000. What makes Geth into a Geth is software, the more programs they run the smarter they become and in order to surpass hardware limitations they network.



Legion is more like supercomputer, superior hardware and before anyone asks "Why wont geth focus on building Legion like models?" due to the same reason you dont have a NASA supercomputer standing in your house.

He still occasionally connect to the rest of the network, but he is fully capable to operate outside main Geth network.



Also Legions shadow broker dossier is very funny.

[netfire_]

I don't consider the geth a valid form of life.

[Ryzaki]

netfire_ wrote...

I don't consider the geth a valid form of life.

I'm sure the Reapers feel that way towards organics.

[AkiKishi]

Ryzaki wrote...

netfire_ wrote...

I don't consider the geth a valid form of life.

I'm sure the Reapers feel that way towards organics.

A lot of the organic ME races probably feel the same way. It's certainl a valid view even if it's not one I agree with.

[Ryzaki]

BobSmith101 wrote...

A lot of the organic ME races probably feel the same way. It's certainl a valid view even if it's not one I agree with.

Oh I never said it wasn't valid.

Just the fact that it's a view that lends itself to the oppression and abusive of things "lesser" than you.

And results in alot of blood being shed over something that could potentially be solved by treating something that's not like you with respect and decency.

Though I frankly find the whole "valid form of life." to be a very condescending attitude. After all people feel that way about people from different religions/cultures.

Though I wish we could side with the Reapers in a bad ending. Really I'm pretty sure Harbinger would be glad to have Shepard. He practically proposes several times.

As long as you're not attacking me/my species for any undue reasons we're cool.

And it's why I can't feel sorry for the Quarians. They're bullheaded and stupid.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2011 - 09:02 .

[AkiKishi]

Ryzaki wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

A lot of the organic ME races probably feel the same way. It's certainl a valid view even if it's not one I agree with.

Oh I never said it wasn't valid.

Just the fact that it's a view that lends itself to the oppression and abusive of things "lesser" than you.

And results in alot of blood being shed over something that could potentially be solved by treating something that's not like you with respect and decency.

Though I frankly find the whole "valid form of life." to be a very condescending attitude. After all people feel that way about people from different religions/cultures.

Sorry was meant to a quote of the post above yours.

Without getting into a hotbed of controversy I think how willing you are to accept what "life" is would depends on your religioius views. I don't have any so to me life is life, whatever it's origin.

[Ryzaki]

BobSmith101 wrote..

Sorry was meant to a quote of the post above yours.

Without getting into a hotbed of controversy I think how willing you are to accept what "life" is would depends on your religioius views. I don't have any so to me life is life, whatever it's origin.

I'm not religious either so I don't care what form life takes. Life is life. Man-made or otherwise.

Though I do see your point. /shrug

Ah well. I wonder if the Reapers are religious?

...That would be interesting if they were.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

There is one thing that we can all agree on.........The Geth are a hell of a lot cooler than the collecters.

Of Course!