1283 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

Nerevar-as wrote...

moilami wrote...

He can describe the setting but he can't say how the world evolves. It is not DM's job.

Sick chantry would either destroy itself or be WTF PWNED by advanced society. There are similar laws of physics in DA world as there is in real world. Someone would develop powder, cannons, and rifles. Soon DA world would be magical steampunk with less and less mage envy and fear.

Remembering Arcanum intro...
It´s really sad if mages stop being feared because everybody gets access to similar killing power.

Hmm, have to add your quote to the verses of the chant even though I am bored to add verses on it anymore.

Checked Arcanum intro, that game is one of those projects I haven't yet even started, but the intro looked awesome! But I like flight sims.

[moilami]

Dave of Canada wrote...

There's no 1:1 comparison to mages in real life, it would be foolish to find one but I'll try to give a hypothetical situation using the guy with guns + molotovs and stuff vs police officers example that people seem to love using.

It is not foolish to do abstractions and strip away unnecessary details. It would be foolish to not do so.

Mages are superior. Mages would be lead anesthesia/first aid/emergency healers in hospitals. Imagine a doctor could do whatever operations while a mage gives magical sleep to the patient and just miracleously heals him.

I remember I RPed in WoW years ago a dwarf who hated magic and argued with dwarf cleric how technology could replace magic even in medical operations given enough time. She just thought I am crazy, and that is the only arguing contest I actually was unable to win or even argue anything what would make sense.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Except that more often that not, those details aren't unecessary....

[moilami]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Except that more often that not, those details aren't unecessary....

People would just say "Nooooooooo" if someone would try to kill godly healers. After that there would be tons of pitchforks and light sabers.

[LobselVith8]

bloodransom wrote...
Im trying to understand why people view the templars as such bad people, the chantry is pure oppressive evil, and mages are philanthropic softies who cast rainbows and kittens

Nobody is saying that templars are inherently evil or that the Chantry is an evil organization, but there are people who find the treatment of the mages to be offensive and flawed to the point that its ineffectual. When we read the Abomination codex, the abomination happens because templars are hunting down a mage - is he innocent or guilty? Templars killed D'Sims, who was a charlatan who pretended to heal people. Templars put out a bounty on Morrigan because they suspect she's a blood mage, but she's never once demonstrated any blood magic abilities in DA:O. The fact that the system is causing runaways and unrest among the mages doesn't demonstrate a successful system to be, especially when it looks to ignite a war between the Order of Templars and the Mages of Thedas.

Dave of Canada wrote...
There's no 1:1 comparison to mages in real life, it would be foolish to find one but I'll try to give a hypothetical situation using the guy with guns + molotovs and stuff vs police officers example that people seem to love using.
A mage has a lot of firepower behind his / her hands, enough that should they go crazy they'd be extremely powerful and easily be capable of dealing a lot of damage. People bring up police officers as a comparison to templar but that isn't that strong of an idea because templar don't have equal firepower to the mage, they have a sword and the ability to probably nullify / stop some of the mage's weaponry.
While it is possible for a regular average joe to stop the mage, it's unlikey to happen unless the mage is caught off guard or ran out of firepower. The most likely situation would be that the mage would kill him and anybody who'd try to stop them, how can the average citizen deal with it?

Ian has proposed a law enforcement of mages and non-mages to address the concerns of people misusing mages. Why does it necessarily have to be that, because some mages might misuse their abilities, that they should be treated as sub-human and imprisoned under armored drug addicts who apparently have more accountability when it comes to "chasing tail" than they do when it comes to the lives of the mages? The situation of imprisoning innocent people who have done nothing wrong is causing unrest among mages, and that's never going to change as long as they're being oppressed by a system that denies them a real voice and basic rights.

David of Canada wrote...
A lone desire demon abomination possessing a kid that can barely cast magic nearly destroyed (or successfully destroyed) Redcliffe, killed an entire castle filled with armed guards and mind controlled surviving guards (and Bann Teagan) to do it's bidding. That alone should prove that mages are dangerous, though that isn't enough right?
What if instead of it being a simple mage child, the abomination would be the King of Ferelden? What if the King became like the Baroness but on a much larger scale? You'd have a lot of problems, from small to gigantic depending on how long it took for people to find out that the King was possessed.

A Desire Demon was able to cause damage because a civil war was going on and nobody was able to help a small village of minimal people. Saying that an event that was caused by a woman who was pious and didn't want her son to be a mage basically sums up the problem with the Chantry spreading anti-mage propaganda - it's going to cause fear and resentment towards mages. The tragedy at Redcliffe can be placed at the feet of Isolde as well as the Chantry for its vile anti-mage dogma. You spread hate, it's going to have an impact - that's why Wynne says that mages are feared and killed in Andrastian societies, while we know that Rivain, the Dalish clans, and the Chasind tribes don't automatically fear and hate mages simply for being mages. Also, anyone can become possessed, not merely mages. Does this mean everyone should be locked up for the greater good because they can be a powerful threat?

David of Canada wrote...
Gaider even gave a few examples about what happens if Dalish / Rivaini / Chasind--the cultures that are said as "abominationless" by the pro-mages group-- get possessed, "they suffer and deal with it". I doubt the large majority of the non-mages would want to have ticking time bombs walking around, especially when not having today's morals that are often dragged into these discussions.

They deal with it - which clearly works because abominations haven't annihilated the Dalish, the Chasind, or the nation of Rivain. In other words, they deal with the threat - they don't round up all mages and imprison men, women, and children under armed and armored drug addicts.

David of Canada wrote...
Hell, the "prison" that is the Circle of Magi isn't even all that bad. The people are allowed to be visited by their family members, they get free shelter, are raised in how to use their magic correctly, can marry (with permission) and are allowed to leave once they've completed their training if Finn is any evidence. I was surprised when Finn was like "alright, let's go." and I didn't even need to talk to the Templar to get permission to leave.

Or the rape victim Fiona, who saw her life in the Circle as no better than being the sex slave of an Orlesian noble. Or Aenirin, who risked his life to flee the Circle and was nearly killed for it. Or the mages who rose up with Uldred because they wanted their freedom for the Circle, and were willing to risk their lives to achieve that independence. Clearly, the Circle isn't the idyllic paradise you're making it out to be.

David of Canada wrote...
I won't even bring up the implications of the Broken Circle quest happening somewhere public instead of an isolated community where nobody else resides.

Probably because it only happened since mages were fighting to be free of their oppressors, perhaps?

[J0HNL3I]

No.

[moilami]

IanPolaris wrote...

moilami wrote...

Yeah, exactly, I was about to talk about that later, but can as well do it now.

Mages are a great asset. In that DA world, he who have mage superiority would win all other nations. Mages are more than artillery and godly medics combined. With proper co-ordination with archers and melee soldiers such army would be devastating against any army without mages.

...

Indeed and the first nation that is able to do all this (I snipped your post for space) will be able to forge an empire that may rival that of Ancient Tevinter which probably gives the Divine nightmares.  I strongly suspect that the first national leader to pull this off will be.....you guessed it.....Hawke.

-Polaris

Hopefully so. I am very interested to see how it is in DA2. It will be great experience, I think, because I don't have to start it like I would had lost all my memories. On the other hand that "memory loss" made DA very interesting.

[LobselVith8]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I kind of always thought that the "point" of playing the mage origin was to show that Templar presense in the Tower was causing more problems than it solved. I thought that a Mage Warden's journey really heavily underscored that "there has to be a better way." This is underscored several times when you talk to Wynne, or to Aneirin, everyone says "You could change things for the Circle!" And then you get the Boon at the end, and hey, you can make things better for the Circle! Yay!

But I heard it said that the Chantry denies the Mage Warden's request? That's so disappointing. After everyone my mage talked to, after everything my mage has seen about the treatment all mages, there has to be a better way. For everyone. Mages and Templars--everyone. Because there's been wrongs on both sides. Something has to change.

Ignoring the boon is disappointing - why the Chantry turning it down wasn't addressed in Awakening or the DLCs will always confuse me. They made the entire point worthless, and the Magi boon is actually bugged - if Irving doesn't acknowledge it after the ruler of Ferelden makes the proclamation, the flags weren't activated.

Regarding the Chantry controlled Circles, it does cause more problems than it solves - that's the point. The murder of D'Sims, the likelihood of Aenirin being innocent of the charges of being a maleficar and still being hunted down and nearly killed, the runaways, the abominations that transpire as a direct result of the Chantry and the templars, the bounty on Morrigan with no evidence to back up the suspicion of her being a blood mage in Witch Hunt, all of it points to a damaged system that's looking to cause a Templar vs. Mage war in DA2.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You know what I find funny..
The people keep bashing the Chantry and the templars and the Circle system.

I think you mean people are providing valid criticisms about the system in place.  Or do you mean that people bring up that the codex entry History of the Circle and mention that according to the Chantry scholar who wrote it, mages were segregated because of a nonviolent protest? Because of it had nothing to do with blood mages or abominations, then why can't we question the validity of the Chantry controlled Circles, where mages are treated as sub-human and denied basic rights, since it seems to be leading to a war between the Order of Templars and the Mages in DA2?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And the Lead Writer DG, occasionally pops up, to try and set things straight, constantly remaining people that the Chantry isn't as evil as some think/want it to be.

Nobody is saying the Chantry or templars are evil - that's the entire problem with Gaider's criticism earlier in this thread of the fans. Some of us know that oppression is a bad thing because we personally or our families have had to endure oppression, and we're informed enough to know it's bad. So far we're seen the Chantry system lead to abominations (the Abomination codex and A Broken Circle), unrest, and it looks to be leading to a war based on the meeting in Cumberland and the Mage vs. Templar scenes we've viewed in the trailer. Is this the success that we're supposed to bow down before, a system that's so flawed it's likely to cause a war between the Chantry and the mages of Thedas?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

But there's no reasoning with some people. They'll rather argue with the author than accept the reality of the setting.
I pitty you people....

Because you're pro-Chantry and you troll and flame people who disagree with your views rather than debate the concerns like an adult. Many of us have different criticisms about the Chantry controlled Circles, and it makes no sense for you to make a sweeping generalization about everyone who has valid concerns and criticisms about the Chantry controlled Circles. I see nothing in the novels or the storyline of DA:O or DA:A to dismiss this concerns and support a blind obedience to the Chantry.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Based on what? You know nothing about how the Dales and ancient Arlathan dealt with magic. And I'm not sure that citing a village full of religious zealots that drank the blood of dragons and killed all strangers that came upon them is a particularly good example of "why mages aren't bad".

Exactly. He sez they are not proper examples or proof of anything. Yet people keep using them as some sort of proof again and again.

Based on what? Based on the DLC Witch Hunt, actually.

People bring them up because the Dalish clans are lead by people who descend from the nobility who ruled the Dales, and the Keepers we've seen are mages. Clearly, the nation of the Dales had mages, especially given the stories we hear about the elves of Arlathan being great wielders of magic and how the Dales was an attempt to reclaim the glory of ancient Arlathan. Clearly, Arlathan had mages - that's evident from the Eluvians and the magical barriers we encounter in Witch Hunt placed there by the elves who fled Arlathan and sought sanctuary in the Deep Roads.

Even the Arcane Warrior spirit was an elven warrior mage who was a member of an entire order living in ancient Thedas, so clearly we do have information that mages had roles among the ancient elves.

In addition, I did reference Haven - not because I'm attempting to justify their behavior towards strangers, but because it shows that not everyone is going to automatically hate mages simply because they exist. It's not valid to say that everyone will hate and attack mages when we clearly see that Haven accepts mages as the leader of the local Haven Chantry (Father Eirik) and condones magic (as revealed by Kolgrim).

Lotion, I'm waiting to see proof that the Chantry system is warranted. You also dismiss people who have valid concerns about the Chantry controlled Circles. Actually, we have criticisms about the Chantry controlled Circles, and I've seen nothing in the storyline or the novels to dismiss those concerns. In the Gaider written The Calling, even Fiona sees the Circle as no better than her life as an Orlesian sex slave. Clearly, it's not an ideal place to live for everyone, considering it's a prison full of innocent people.

David of Canada wrote...

It's not only a templar that decides when a mage is made tranquil though, Irving has to approve of it and even then they mention that they had witnesses of Jowan using blood magic. It's a decision that was done for the good of all by even the Circle, templar or no.

I'm a certain an independent Circle would do the same.

Irving never saw the evidence against Jowan and admits he would do things differently if he was in charge, so that isn't an accurate statement.

FDrage wrote...

Mages ? ... aren't those the people that can fry your skin and melt your brain within the blink of an eye ?
Keep them locked up in their towers and let then prove that they aren't a danger to normal folks .. Templars do a vital and important policing job as you can't trust mages to police themselves. Granted who polices the templars .. hmm ... it ios for the best of the common folks anyway. So go ahead

You mean the mages - the people who helped defeat the darkspawn during the Blights and who saved the Andrastian nations from the invading Qunari forces during the New Exalted Marches? The same mages that Duncan refers to as instrumental in defeating darkspawn when he comes to the Circle to ask for more mages to aid the King's forces, during a Blight where the Chantry permits only seven mages to go to Ostagar to battle the darkspawn horde and the Archdemon.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 04 février 2011 - 02:15 .

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

They deal with it - which clearly works because abominations haven't annihilated the Dalish, the Chasind, or the nation of Rivain. In other words, they deal with the threat - they don't round up all mages and imprison men, women, and children under armed and armored drug addicts.

I'd argue that "they didn't get annihilated" isn't exactly a proof that something clearly works. At best it can be an indication that the practice hasn't been an unmitigated disaster. But that's a very low bar.

Whether that approach has less impact on the population at large or more compared to rest of Thedas and by what margin, we don't really know. And as such, it's rather irresponsible to push these alternatives as 'obviously better'.

Modifié par tmp7704, 04 février 2011 - 05:12 .

[AlexXIV]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

They deal with it - which clearly works because abominations haven't annihilated the Dalish, the Chasind, or the nation of Rivain. In other words, they deal with the threat - they don't round up all mages and imprison men, women, and children under armed and armored drug addicts.

I'd argue that "they didn't get annihilated" isn't exactly a proof that something clearly works. At best it can be an indication that the practice hasn't been an unmitigated disaster. But that's a very low bar.

Whether that approach has less impact on the population at large or more compared to rest of Thedas and by what margin, we don't really know. And as such, it's rather irresponsible to push these alternatives as 'obviously better'.

Maybe not obviously better, but also not obviously worse.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 février 2011 - 05:15 .

[tmp7704]

AlexXIV wrote...

Maybe not obviously better, but also not obviously worse.

This, again, hinges on what impact this approach has on the population at large. Without knowing it, i don't think we can really tell it either way. All we have is Mr.Gaider's statement that, due to effect this approach has on the common people this route isn't something they'd be universally willing to accept.

[LobselVith8]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

They deal with it - which clearly works because abominations haven't annihilated the Dalish, the Chasind, or the nation of Rivain. In other words, they deal with the threat - they don't round up all mages and imprison men, women, and children under armed and armored drug addicts.

I'd argue that "they didn't get annihilated" isn't exactly a proof that something clearly works. At best it can be an indication that the practice hasn't been an unmitigated disaster. But that's a very low bar.

Whether that approach has less impact on the population at large or more compared to rest of Thedas and by what margin, we don't really know. And as such, it's rather irresponsible to push these alternatives as 'obviously better'.

If mages were as dangerous as the Chantry claims and couldn't be permitted to be free, then I don't see why the threat of abominations wouldn't have destroyed the Dalish, the Chasind, or the nation of Rivain. In fact, the codex History of the Circle explains that the reason behind the mages being isolated from society and imprisoned in Circles is that mages held a protest in a cathedral. I don't see a nonviolent protest as a sufficient reason to imprison mages, especially when the system has shown to cause unrest and revolution. 
 

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Maybe not obviously better, but also not obviously worse.

This, again, hinges on what impact this approach has on the population at large. Without knowing it, i don't think we can really tell it either way. All we have is Mr.Gaider's statement that, due to effect this approach has on the common people this route isn't something they'd be universally willing to accept.

The reason I referenced Haven when discussing this issue during the Gaider comments is because we see a society of humans who clearly have a different approach to mages - they accept them. They accept magic, and mages have positions of authority - Father Eirik presiding over the Haven Chantry and Kolgrim admits that they endorse magic. Clearly, it doesn't always have to be mages versus everyone else. Rivain is an entire nation of people who don't segregate mages, have a semi-permanent settlement for the Dalish on their borders, and actually revere their witches. Even the tribes of the Chasind have mages among them. The Chantry plays a significant role in the way people perceive mages in the Andrastian societies with their "mages are cursed" and blaming them all for causing the Blight.

[AlexXIV]

The Chantry has the same interest as the Wardens that Warden's numbers don't grow thin. Without Grey Wardens the next Blight may be the last. As for Morrigan, I don't know. You meet alot of templars on the way. Could be many things. Alistair could have leaked information, or someone else, anyone actually. Or the templar always knew of her to begin with. Or Morrigan did something and didn't cover her tracks, I really don't know.

[Nashiktal]

Mages as healers in hospitals are great.



Those same mages chocking the infirm with their own innards as abominations... not so great.

[the_one_54321]

Darth Gaider wrote...
 Of course, we don't have to live with the idea that Poor Oppressed Joe living next door to us might be secretly controlling our mind to make us like him-- or one day turn into a monster and kill our entire family-- but that doesn't need to stop us from being idealistic in our fantasy worlds, now, does it?

No, of course not! Wait... that's not what I meant. What's that thing that's the opposite of what I just said? Oh yeah! Yes it totally does mean that. Opress the dangerous mages.

[Zavox]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You know what I find funny..

The people keep bashing the Chantry and the templars and the Circle system.

And the Lead Writer DG, occasionally pops up, to try and set things straight, constantly remaining people that the Chantry isn't as evil as some think/want it to be.

But there's no reasoning with some people. They'll rather argue with the author than accept the reality of the setting.
I pitty you people....

Seriously?

An author does not decide how I feel about a world or whether I find it justified. The only thing he does is CREATE the world, he doesn't decide whether I find it just or not. That's my own opinion.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Nobody is saying that templars are inherently evil or that the Chantry is an evil organization, but there are people who find the treatment of the mages to be offensive and flawed to the point that its ineffectual.
The fact that the system is causing runaways and unrest among the mages doesn't demonstrate a successful system to be, especially when it looks to ignite a war between the Order of Templars and the Mages of Thedas.

I'd argue that they systm is jsut as effective as any police/prison system.

Prisons have criminals trying to breka out of them. They also have criminals ressit arrest, attacks police officers, and sometimes prison rebellions - hence causing unrest.
Yet no one would argue that it doesn't work.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 04 février 2011 - 11:33 .

[Beerfish]

Zavox wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You know what I find funny..

The people keep bashing the Chantry and the templars and the Circle system.

And the Lead Writer DG, occasionally pops up, to try and set things straight, constantly remaining people that the Chantry isn't as evil as some think/want it to be.

But there's no reasoning with some people. They'll rather argue with the author than accept the reality of the setting.
I pitty you people....

Seriously?

An author does not decide how I feel about a world or whether I find it justified. The only thing he does is CREATE the world, he doesn't decide whether I find it just or not. That's my own opinion.

You're obviously totally free to feel any way you wish on the subject.  Once one starts putting their beliefs forth in a discussion like this however you now have to defend then and point out in a logical fashion why you feel the way you do and I assume that is what Lotion was getting at.

Modifié par Beerfish, 04 février 2011 - 11:34 .

[Veex]

From a gameplay standpoint... not really. I haven't completed a mage playthrough yet, despite the fact that I often play casters/healers in MMOs. Weird.



From a lore perspective, sure, some of them. As is the case with the Chantry, Mages have good and bad seeds and the potential for corruption.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Zavox wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You know what I find funny..

The people keep bashing the Chantry and the templars and the Circle system.

And the Lead Writer DG, occasionally pops up, to try and set things straight, constantly remaining people that the Chantry isn't as evil as some think/want it to be.

But there's no reasoning with some people. They'll rather argue with the author than accept the reality of the setting.
I pitty you people....

Seriously?

An author does not decide how I feel about a world or whether I find it justified. The only thing he does is CREATE the world, he doesn't decide whether I find it just or not. That's my own opinion.

No, the author cannot decide how you feel. He however, does set up the reality of his world. He knows ALL the facts.
You are free to reject that reality and disagre with his vision, but the authors vision is "canon".

[Zavox]

Beerfish wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You know what I find funny..

The people keep bashing the Chantry and the templars and the Circle system.

And the Lead Writer DG, occasionally pops up, to try and set things straight, constantly remaining people that the Chantry isn't as evil as some think/want it to be.

But there's no reasoning with some people. They'll rather argue with the author than accept the reality of the setting.
I pitty you people....

Seriously?

An author does not decide how I feel about a world or whether I find it justified. The only thing he does is CREATE the world, he doesn't decide whether I find it just or not. That's my own opinion.

You're obviously totally free to feel any way you wish on the subject.  Once one starts putting their beliefs forth in a discussion like this however you now have to defend then and point out in a logical fashion why you feel the way you do and I assume that is what Lotion was getting at.

It's not really hard to point out logically how I feel about a certain subject. Or are you suggesting I have illogical feelings?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, the author cannot decide how you feel. He however, does set up the reality of his world. He knows ALL the facts.
You are free to reject that reality and disagre with his vision, but the authors vision is "canon".

Yes, which still means he's creating the world and I can put my own sense of morality on what he creates. You can hardly argue against whether I find whatever he creates as being morally wrong or not. Even if he says he does not see the Chantry as such, that's his opinion on the Chantry, not mine. We both base our feelings on the facts.

Modifié par Zavox, 04 février 2011 - 11:39 .

[Collider]

Writers can intend a certain reaction from the audience, but they cannot always dictate how we feel.

[KawaiiKatie]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Ignoring the boon is disappointing - why the Chantry turning it down wasn't addressed in Awakening or the DLCs will always confuse me. They made the entire point worthless, and the Magi boon is actually bugged - if Irving doesn't acknowledge it after the ruler of Ferelden makes the proclamation, the flags weren't activated.

Ooof, thank you so much for pointing that out! I had no idea that was the case until you said something. I'm working on fixing it (with mods and a quick replay of some areas) so that all the flags are all set when I transfer my Mage Warden to DA2. Whew! Thanks a heap.

Regarding the Chantry controlled Circles, it does cause more problems than it solves - that's the point.... all of it points to a damaged system that's looking to cause a Templar vs. Mage war in DA2.

But everyone agreed that if anyone could change things for the Circle, it was the Warden! But apparently not even he/she could do it. Is it up to Hawke? The combined efforts of a Mage Warden and a Mage Hawke? Are we going to have to wait until DA3 to see something improve for the better? 

I know all of the wrongs in the world can't be fixed overnight, but I just feel bad for the efforts of mages like Wynne, who said something to the effect of, "I won't live to see the Circle rebuilt, stronger and more glorious than before, but you [Mage Warden], you could do it."

Was she wrong? Will the Mage Warden not live to see the changes he/she fought for? Will Hawke? So many questions... 

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 05 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Nobody is saying that templars are inherently evil or that the Chantry is an evil organization, but there are people who find the treatment of the mages to be offensive and flawed to the point that its ineffectual.

The fact that the system is causing runaways and unrest among the mages doesn't demonstrate a successful system to be, especially when it looks to ignite a war between the Order of Templars and the Mages of Thedas.

I'd argue that they systm is jsut as effective as any police/prison system.

Prisons have criminals trying to breka out of them. They also have criminals ressit arrest, attacks police officers, and sometimes prison rebellions - hence causing unrest.
Yet no one would argue that it doesn't work.

You're comparing a legal system that incarcerates felons with a system that imprisons innocent people under an organization that's known to have negative views about them, to say the least. The reality is that mages aren't criminals, they're innocent people who are being imprisoned over what they might do. All it's leading to is unrest and revolts. Eventually, enough mages are going to revolt (perhaps as a result of the meeting in Cumberland) and it'll be an all out war between the Order of Templars and the Mages of Thedas.

Beerfish wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You know what I find funny..

The people keep bashing the Chantry and the templars and the Circle system.

And the Lead Writer DG, occasionally pops up, to try and set things straight, constantly remaining people that the Chantry isn't as evil as some think/want it to be.

But there's no reasoning with some people. They'll rather argue with the author than accept the reality of the setting.
I pitty you people....

Seriously?

An author does not decide how I feel about a world or whether I find it justified. The only thing he does is CREATE the world, he doesn't decide whether I find it just or not. That's my own opinion.

You're obviously totally free to feel any way you wish on the subject.  Once one starts putting their beliefs forth in a discussion like this however you now have to defend then and point out in a logical fashion why you feel the way you do and I assume that is what Lotion was getting at.

That's what's been going on for 50 pages now, from citing the History of the Circle codex to the lack of any proof that templars are regulated when it comes to killing mages. People have been addressing what they find flawed with the Chantry controlled Circles and how it's lead to abominations, runaways, and revolutions. It's even bleed into other threads as well.