1283 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Ziggeh wrote...

You really think that's something only the writers can answer?

I view it as the opposite.  It's a question either we or our characters are intended to answer. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 février 2011 - 06:33 .

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I view it as the opposite.  It's a question either we or are characters are intended to answer. 

Exactly, they might as well pop up and tell us that anyone who picked Bhelen was doing it wrong.

[CroGamer002]

I like playing as mages, but I suck.

[moilami]

Ziggeh wrote...

moilami wrote...

There are questions only makers of the game can answer. One question is are mages people or are they evil monsters.

You really think that's something only the writers can answer?

Yeah.

And I don't really need that answer.

But if Andraste can contact maker, then my RP Hawke can hunt Melkor. Or Maker himself. Cry Chantry!

I have always said aim high if you shoot far.

[IanPolaris]

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually we know that the culturally pure Rivain do NOT have circles.

I don't believe we do. We know there are circles in Rivain, and while I concede that could well mean that these are confined to specific areas, I don't think we have a basis to say either way. Declaritives again I suppose.

Actually we do.  We have the latest official (and thus canonical) bioware blog that outright states that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle.  That means any circles there had to be set up by the Templars (presumably when they did their exalted march).

-Polaris

[Ziggeh]

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually we do.  We have the latest official (and thus canonical) bioware blog that outright states that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle.

Or that a subset of mages defined as witches are not controlled by the circle.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 05 février 2011 - 06:42 .

[moilami]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

You really think that's something only the writers can answer?

I view it as the opposite.  It's a question either we or our characters are intended to answer. 

Intended yes, but like any other question asked from devs regarding the realm it can be asked from devsto get an ultimate answer. Of course that does not make sense since your character could not know it, but RPing you ask it from gods makes.


Edit: Just a pity no actual dialogue never started for people don't tell me how to ask questions.

Edit: No matter, I knew what would happen and just had fun RPing confronting Melkor. It is done - and I lolled.

Modifié par moilami, 05 février 2011 - 06:58 .

[Herr Uhl]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually we know that the culturally pure Rivain do NOT have circles.

I don't believe we do. We know there are circles in Rivain, and while I concede that could well mean that these are confined to specific areas, I don't think we have a basis to say either way. Declaritives again I suppose.

Actually we do.  We have the latest official (and thus canonical) bioware blog that outright states that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle.  That means any circles there had to be set up by the Templars (presumably when they did their exalted march).

-Polaris

Circle=!Chantry

[IanPolaris]

Herr Uhl wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually we know that the culturally pure Rivain do NOT have circles.

I don't believe we do. We know there are circles in Rivain, and while I concede that could well mean that these are confined to specific areas, I don't think we have a basis to say either way. Declaritives again I suppose.

Actually we do.  We have the latest official (and thus canonical) bioware blog that outright states that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle.  That means any circles there had to be set up by the Templars (presumably when they did their exalted march).

-Polaris

Circle=!Chantry

Circle is a subset of the Chantry.  The Circle is how the Chantry controls magic and has been since Drakon I (and it was explicitly set up to control magic for the Chantry and magic was always under the explicit control of the Chantry).

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually we do.  We have the latest official (and thus canonical) bioware blog that outright states that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle.

Or that a subset of mages defined as witches are not controlled by the circle.

Who form a central role in Rivain society per Bros Genetivi's codex entry.  If there is a circle in the geographic region of Rivain, it's almost certainly a Templar/Andrastian transplant.

-Polaris

[moilami]

GodWood wrote...

moilami wrote...
Yes. And he can either keep hiding or show himself again and answer to the question. Only he can answer to the question.

Why do you dislike DG?

I don't even know him. I can't dislike something I don't know.

For me (my Hawke) his nick presents Ainur. I don't suppose you know what that is but it doesn't matter. Anyway he popped up and painted mages black, so I confronted him.

[Bryy_Miller]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Magi boon is bugged - if Irving doesn't acknowledge it during the ceremony, it's likely not going to be picked up because the flag isn't activated.

Source?

[Ziggeh]

IanPolaris wrote...

Who form a central role in Rivain society per Bros Genetivi's codex entry.  If there is a circle in the geographic region of Rivain, it's almost certainly a Templar/Andrastian transplant.

Definitely ya, but they apparently have them.

[IanPolaris]

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Who form a central role in Rivain society per Bros Genetivi's codex entry.  If there is a circle in the geographic region of Rivain, it's almost certainly a Templar/Andrastian transplant.

Definitely ya, but they apparently have them.

Which means if you talk about the Rivain culture (as opposed to the geographic area), it's fair to say that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle tower system.  This is confirmed in the latest bioware blog.  The fact there is a transplanted Andrastian Circle in Geographic Rivain isn't relevent.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 05 février 2011 - 08:39 .

[IanPolaris]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Magi boon is bugged - if Irving doesn't acknowledge it during the ceremony, it's likely not going to be picked up because the flag isn't activated.

Source?

It definately was in my game (I tested it).  If Alistair gives the magi boon the flag is not set for the post-coronation save.  If Anora gives it, then it is.  The opposite is true of the Elven Bann bug.

For PC users, the Zev Dialog Fixes correct both these bugs.  For console users, you are simply out of luck.

-Polaris

[Ziggeh]

IanPolaris wrote...

Which means if you talk about the Rivain culture (as opposed to the geographic area), it's fair to say that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle tower system.  This is confirmed in the latest bioware blog.  The fact there is a transplanted Andrastian Circle in Geographic Rivain isn't relevent.

There are mages there who aren't controlled would be more accurate.

[IanPolaris]

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Which means if you talk about the Rivain culture (as opposed to the geographic area), it's fair to say that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle tower system.  This is confirmed in the latest bioware blog.  The fact there is a transplanted Andrastian Circle in Geographic Rivain isn't relevent.

There are mages there who aren't controlled would be more accurate.

Sorry but no.  What I said was perfectly accurate and fair.  Bros Genetivi's Codex entry refers to Rivain culture while the passing reference to a circle in Rivain speaks to geography.  We know from multiple canonical sources that as a CULTURE the Rivain have resisted the Chantry's influence and do not lock up their mages and indeed such mages are honored and even revered.  Just because you don't like the canonical entries regarding Rivain does not change them.  As the late Sen Moynihan once put it, "Everyone's entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts."

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Which means if you talk about the Rivain culture (as opposed to the geographic area), it's fair to say that Rivain mages are not controlled by the circle tower system.  This is confirmed in the latest bioware blog.  The fact there is a transplanted Andrastian Circle in Geographic Rivain isn't relevent.

There are mages there who aren't controlled would be more accurate.

Well, the codex from the Bioware site referenced mages being controlled by the templars in Andrastian nations, if we're getting technical about it.

[LobselVith8]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Just to be clear, you realize that I've been splitting hairs - and your argument reads to me that you're saying I can't do that?

I thought our discussion was about the fact that I disagreed with you?

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

You really think that's something only the writers can answer?

I view it as the opposite.  It's a question either we or our characters are intended to answer. 

We are allowed to express our opinion as the PC throughout the story, particularly when it comes to how we view the Chantry and the templars. There is the option for the Warden from the Circle of Magi to refer to the Circle as oppressive, admit to Cullen that the mage thought all templars enjoyed killing mages, the mage can tell Irving that he figures Greagoir hates all mages, the mage can side with the Mages Collective and help them keep their mages independent of the Chantry, and the Hero of Ferelden can express that mages have earned the right to govern themselves - which the ruler of Ferelden agrees with.

[Ziggeh]

IanPolaris wrote...
Just because you don't like the canonical entries regarding Rivain does not change them.

That's really rather misrepresenting my position.

What I don't like is declarative statements based on assumption. We know there are circles in Rivain, we know there are mages outside of those circles. There isn't a strong case to say much else.

As an aside, much of the country follows the Qun, so to say culturally they're ok with mages might be a bit much.

[Ziggeh]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Well, the codex from the Bioware site referenced mages being controlled by the templars in Andrastian nations, if we're getting technical about it.

Right, those circles could be completely different. They could be more like schools. I'm not sure we know.

[IanPolaris]

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Just because you don't like the canonical entries regarding Rivain does not change them.

That's really rather misrepresenting my position.

What I don't like is declarative statements based on assumption. We know there are circles in Rivain, we know there are mages outside of those circles. There isn't a strong case to say much else.

As an aside, much of the country follows the Qun, so to say culturally they're ok with mages might be a bit much.

Again, you don't get to make up your own facts.  The codex entry on the CULTURE of the Rivain is clear.  Mages form an honored part of that society that has resisted the chantry.  The fact the Templars might have transplated a circle of magi there is totally and completely irrelevant.  Furthmore this is backed by the latest (canonical) blog entry.  You are IMHO less than honestly trying to diminish just how important and indepenant Rivaini mages are.

As for the Qun, the Qun != Qunari race and culture.  The Qun as practiced by the Rivain is significantly different than that practiced by the Qunari most especially when it comes to magic.

-Polaris

[Ziggeh]

IanPolaris wrote...

Again, you don't get to make up your own facts.  The codex entry on the CULTURE of the Rivain is clear.  Mages form an honored part of that society that has resisted the chantry.  The fact the Templars might have transplated a circle of magi there is totally and completely irrelevant.

Which parts am I making up?

The codex says that they refuse to part from hedge-mages despite prohibition. We don't know if they're allowed to practice freely or if they do so secretly, or whether it's similar to the tolerated-due-to-convienience-Dalish-keepers. I don't see how that's clear.

IanPolaris wrote...
Furthmore this is backed by the latest (canonical) blog entry.

Which gives us much the same information as the codes: limited.

IanPolaris wrote...
You are IMHO less than honestly trying to diminish just how important and indepenant Rivaini mages are.

Because you're saying they aren't in any way effected by the apparent circles. If you were saying all but a few of them were locked up, presumably I would come across as attempting to increase the importance of the case.

[Bryy_Miller]

IanPolaris wrote...

For PC users, the Zev Dialog Fixes correct both these bugs.

-Polaris

Explain.

[moilami]

Beerfish wrote...

I mean my cousin Mathias, a merchant in Red cliffe was killed because some young kid became a demon and slaughtered the town.  Poor fellow, sad story he had a wife and 3 kids to feed back in Denerim.  Why was the Chantry asleep on that one, why wasn't that kid controlled properly?

Then there was my Aunt Ramona, fine woman, hard worker she was.  Worked her way up to assistant head housekeeper in the Mage tower.  Killed horribly in that towere incident, some power ful mage or other got loose and killed all sorts of Templars and other mages and all the servants in the tower.  Both mages and Templars assured her it was a safe place to work, what went wrong?

I once courted a pretty young gal from a village called Honneleath.  I heard she got killed by a hoard of darkspawn.  There was rumours that a powerful mage lived there and dabbled in demonology.  Some even say after the mage died there was an actual demon in his basement, just waiting to possess someone, can you believe that!

Myself and some merchant friends were drinking it up one eve and this one guy, Levi Dryden starts telling us this story about his Great granny being a Warden and her and a mage letting loose all sorts of them demons.  Place was haunted for years they say.

I had a real good buddy, Haskel was his name, hard working merchant.  Elf lover some called him cause he actually, can you believe it traded with the dalish at times.  Welll I heard he went to do some trading and some crazed elf witch named Velana or something like that just up and kills him and his friends.

Damndable mages, all of em.  They ought to lock em up tight or kill em all.  I sure wouldn't want one in my village WOULD YOU?

Thanks Beerfish. Good opener. For long the gates were knocked before Melkor finally arrived