1283 réponses à ce sujet

[NErWOnek]

In dragon age they were too powerful and the most difficult enemies fell easy, so I didn't like them too much.

[LobselVith8]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

For PC users, the Zev Dialog Fixes correct both these bugs.

-Polaris

Explain.

There are a number of problems that the developers never bothered to correct, including the bugs with the elven Bann epilogue slide and the Magi boon not being properly activated unless certain conditions are met, so fans basically corrected the bugs. You can find mods that will fix them, including the ones Ian suggested.

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Again, you don't get to make up your own facts.  The codex entry on the CULTURE of the Rivain is clear.  Mages form an honored part of that society that has resisted the chantry.  The fact the Templars might have transplated a circle of magi there is totally and completely irrelevant.

Which parts am I making up?

The codex says that they refuse to part from hedge-mages despite prohibition. We don't know if they're allowed to practice freely or if they do so secretly, or whether it's similar to the tolerated-due-to-convienience-Dalish-keepers. I don't see how that's clear.

The Dalish clans aren't tolerated unless they aid humanity against the fifth Blight, and even that's for a limited time. The clans are basically wanderers, but we have Tevinter and Rivain mentioned in the Bioware Blog DA2 codex that states them as places where the mages aren't under templar control.

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Furthmore this is backed by the latest (canonical) blog entry.

Which gives us much the same information as the codes: limited.

It's limited information, but the Rivain is listed in the context of places where mages aren't under templar control.

Ziggeh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
You are IMHO less than honestly trying to diminish just how important and indepenant Rivaini mages are.

Because you're saying they aren't in any way effected by the apparent circles. If you were saying all but a few of them were locked up, presumably I would come across as attempting to increase the importance of the case.

Given how Rivain isn't an Andrastian nation and their role in bringing a truce between the Qunari and the many Andrastian nations, it's possible that they presently have a Circle that's no longer under Chantry or templar control because of their ties to the Qunari and their role in bringing the New Exalted Marches to a resolution. From what we do know - the Brother Genitivi written codex about Rivain and the latest codex from Bioware - Rivain isn't one of the Andrastian nations, doesn't worship the Maker, and its witches are referenced among groups who are not under templar control - with Genitivi's codex mentioning the people of Rivain not parting with them. I think that it's interesting that (from what we know so far) that the nation that was so influenced by the Qunari is also the most tolerant of mages.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 05 février 2011 - 11:41 .

[Ziggeh]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish clans aren't tolerated unless they aid humanity against the fifth Blight, and even that's for a limited time.

I'm not sure what the official line is, or if we've even been told, but they're not hunted down, presumably because it would be more hassle than it's worth.

LobselVith8 wrote...
but we have Tevinter and Rivain mentioned in the Bioware Blog DA2 codex that states them as places where the mages aren't under templar control.

That's not what it says, possibly just because of the tevinter non magisterial mages that are, but we don't have evidence that the rivaini circles don't have templars, so it's not something we can say.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Given how Rivain isn't an Andrastian nation and their role in bringing a truce between the Qunari and the many Andrastian nations, it's possible that they presently have a Circle that's no longer under Chantry or templar control because of their ties to the Qunari and their role in bringing the New Exalted Marches to a resolution. From what we do know - the Brother Genitivi written codex about Rivain and the latest codex from Bioware - Rivain isn't one of the Andrastian nations, doesn't worship the Maker, and its witches are referenced among groups who are not under templar control - with Genitivi's codex mentioning the people of Rivain not parting with them.

Absolutely agree with all of that.

LobselVith8 wrote...
I think that it's interesting that (from what we know so far) that the nation that was so influenced by the Qunari is also the most tolerant of mages.

This too! Polaris mentioned it earlier which is wy I didn't follow it up, but it's possible that the treatment of mages is a racial thing rather than taught in the Qun, and so like the animist beliefs their social magic practices might not contradict their beliefs, but even if thats the case, you'd think at the very least when they were conquered those belief would been questioned given how strongly the Qunari feel about it. It does seem to be a strange and interesting place with a number of conflicting practices.

[Lord Gremlin]

It's only natural that mages are either the oppressed ones or are the oppressors in well-developed societies in this universe.



I do wonder how a society controlled by hunger abominations will develop. Probably through digestion and expansion, mostly.

[Bryy_Miller]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

For PC users, the Zev Dialog Fixes correct both these bugs.

-Polaris

Explain.

There are a number of problems that the developers never bothered to correct, including the bugs with the elven Bann epilogue slide and the Magi boon not being properly activated unless certain conditions are met, so fans basically corrected the bugs. You can find mods that will fix them, including the ones Ian suggested.

Are the fixes retroactive? Like, if I import in Witch Hunt, I doubt it would be fixed.

[Incantrix]

Have and always will be a Mage. (of course maybe I'd fit in a rogue for DA2 this time...)

[Dave of Canada]

I think the reason we don't hear much about Dalish abominations is because the abomination probably wipes out the clan and that a wiped out clan wouldn't be able to report back "Hey, an abomination wiped us out". That or it wasn't a concept the writers wanted to explore in the game because the Dalish were about the werewolves and not abominations.

[moilami]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

It's only natural that mages are either the oppressed ones or are the oppressors in well-developed societies in this universe.

I do wonder how a society controlled by hunger abominations will develop. Probably through digestion and expansion, mostly.

The end of the world comes only when the world runs out of freedom fighters. After that you live in hell.

[Ziggeh]

Dave of Canada wrote...
That or it wasn't a concept the writers wanted to explore in the game because the Dalish were about the werewolves and not abominations.

Indeed, while it's standard practice round these parts to be reading vast amounts into such detail, we shouldn't forget that it is fiction. Well crafted, but fiction nontheless.

[Ziggeh]

moilami wrote...
The end of the world comes only when the world runs out of freedom fighters. After that you live in hell.

In the land of the blind, the shoe is on the other bird in the hand.

[Fishy]

[quote]HopHazzard wrote...
Any person in my neighborhood could snap one day and go on a killing spree. That doesn't mean no one should be allowed to live near me. Also, in modern society we have the means to track and monitor potentially dangerous people without imprisoning them.
[/quote]
.[/quote]

So why not give nuclear weapons to everyone?I want one for my Garden.Maybe some day i snap and decide to power it up.You can't compare both?Exactly.So why you're comparing mage to ordinary people?

Modifié par Suprez30, 06 février 2011 - 01:28 .

[Fishy]

Now geez ..Good thnig they don't see hand grenade in Walmart.
Now run around in the street with a broadsword.Good chance ppl will look at you nervously.

Modifié par Suprez30, 06 février 2011 - 01:33 .

[GodWood]

moilami wrote...

GodWood wrote...

moilami wrote...
Yes. And he can either keep hiding or show himself again and answer to the question. Only he can answer to the question.

Why do you dislike DG?

I don't even know him. I can't dislike something I don't know.

For me (my Hawke) his nick presents Ainur. I don't suppose you know what that is but it doesn't matter. Anyway he popped up and painted mages black, so I confronted him.

He did not paint them black.
He painted them gray.

[moilami]

GodWood wrote...

moilami wrote...

GodWood wrote...

moilami wrote...
Yes. And he can either keep hiding or show himself again and answer to the question. Only he can answer to the question.

Why do you dislike DG?

I don't even know him. I can't dislike something I don't know.

For me (my Hawke) his nick presents Ainur. I don't suppose you know what that is but it doesn't matter. Anyway he popped up and painted mages black, so I confronted him.

He did not paint them black.
He painted them gray.

Haha, good one. But that's why I don't really listen what Melkor says. It is bad to become mind controlled and begin to think killing innocent is gray area.

Edit: And maybe he painted them "gray" in the beginning, but in this latest appearance he painted them black. I wonder what next.

Edit: Maybe he turn mages to orcs. And calls them Darkspawn. The mage "problem" would be solved. Nein.

Modifié par moilami, 06 février 2011 - 02:21 .

[seanna vampyr]

moilami wrote...

seanna vampyr wrote...

Persoanlly I dislike mages, but they are useful. I just distrust a group of men prancing around in dresses...

Added to the list of idiots.

Wow, this is why people like me don't say we are geeks.  I may build computers, play games, read comics, read discworld, and *faint* wear glasses.  But only a geek would get all butt hurt over a joke.  Lighten up, these discussions are made for debate or a joke or 2, not to be taken literally just because you don't have a sense of humor.  If you don't like what I say report me, don't waste board space just to say something stupid that has no validity or is a joke to lighten the mood. 
If anybody really gets that upset over topics like this grow up or gain a sense of humor.  Geez it's called an opinion people!

[Falls Edge]

Hey, I like that list of idiots thing.

Still, there's no real answer to this problem, it's mostly because no matter what either the mages are freed and they kill people, or they're held into a tower and kill people at the request of someone else, it doesn't really matter except on what scale, and whether they deserve to all be imprisioned just because of a few bad eggs that could tamper with the fade in a bad way.

You do not imprison people who may turn to crime, but usually you don't give them a machine gun either, but that's life in the Da universe.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 06 février 2011 - 03:12 .

[Riona45]

seanna vampyr wrote...

moilami wrote...

seanna vampyr wrote...

Persoanlly I dislike mages, but they are useful. I just distrust a group of men prancing around in dresses...

Added to the list of idiots.

Wow, this is why people like me don't say we are geeks.  I may build computers, play games, read comics, read discworld, and *faint* wear glasses.  But only a geek would get all butt hurt over a joke.  Lighten up, these discussions are made for debate or a joke or 2, not to be taken literally just because you don't have a sense of humor.  If you don't like what I say report me, don't waste board space just to say something stupid that has no validity or is a joke to lighten the mood. 
If anybody really gets that upset over topics like this grow up or gain a sense of humor.  Geez it's called an opinion people!

Seems like you're the one who is really sensitive and upset.  How dare someone not like a "joke" that you made!

[Jimmy Fury]

I thought it was funny.
The joke that is. Not the situation. The situation has gotten far too personal and serious and off topic.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 06 février 2011 - 04:56 .

[Morning808]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I thought it was funny.
The joke that is. Not the situation. The situation has gotten far too personal and serious and off topic.

Usally happens with jokes 

People need to get a sense of humor or just learn to not care

[Nashiktal]

Eh you really shouldn't get to upset about Moilami. He just takes this stuff a bit too seriously. I mean hell its not like he is actually interested in debate or discussion.

[IanPolaris]

Ziggeh wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish clans aren't tolerated unless they aid humanity against the fifth Blight, and even that's for a limited time.

I'm not sure what the official line is, or if we've even been told, but they're not hunted down, presumably because it would be more hassle than it's worth.

Actually Templars DO try to hunt down Dalish becaue they know their keepers are apostates.  About half the corpses you see in the Brecilian Forest are templars.  Furthermore if you look at the Chantry Quests in DAA, you find that the Templars are very much involved in a long standing war/hunt of the Dalish Keepers.

LobselVith8 wrote...
but we have Tevinter and Rivain mentioned in the Bioware Blog DA2 codex that states them as places where the mages aren't under templar control.

That's not what it says, possibly just because of the tevinter non magisterial mages that are, but we don't have evidence that the rivaini circles don't have templars, so it's not something we can say.

There is one off-hand reference of a circle in Rivvain, but the Blog does indeed say that mages in Rivain are NOT under the control of the Templars which is the entire point.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Given how Rivain isn't an Andrastian nation and their role in bringing a truce between the Qunari and the many Andrastian nations, it's possible that they presently have a Circle that's no longer under Chantry or templar control because of their ties to the Qunari and their role in bringing the New Exalted Marches to a resolution. From what we do know - the Brother Genitivi written codex about Rivain and the latest codex from Bioware - Rivain isn't one of the Andrastian nations, doesn't worship the Maker, and its witches are referenced among groups who are not under templar control - with Genitivi's codex mentioning the people of Rivain not parting with them.

Absolutely agree with all of that.

Then what's the argument.  Rivaain mages aren't sequestered from society and aren't under Templar control.  The game lore is unmistakeable on these points.

LobselVith8 wrote...
I think that it's interesting that (from what we know so far) that the nation that was so influenced by the Qunari is also the most tolerant of mages.

This too! Polaris mentioned it earlier which is wy I didn't follow it up, but it's possible that the treatment of mages is a racial thing rather than taught in the Qun, and so like the animist beliefs their social magic practices might not contradict their beliefs, but even if thats the case, you'd think at the very least when they were conquered those belief would been questioned given how strongly the Qunari feel about it. It does seem to be a strange and interesting place with a number of conflicting practices.

I guess it probably was, but the Qunari think in terms of black and white, so like they have done against the Chantry, I think it's safe to assume the Rivvain also engaged in a form of extended passive resistant against the Qunari as well when it comes to magic.  I am virtually certian the Qunari hatred of magic is a cultural (or racial) footprint issue rather than with the Qun itself.

-Polaris

[What?]

YES. I always roll mages as my primary characters.

[Riona45]

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually Templars DO try to hunt down Dalish becaue they know their keepers are apostates. 

Indeed--this is all in the setting lore, it's not just an assumption.

[Krimson_Wolf]

my cannon character is a mage! I love setting people aflame

[Morning808]

Riona45 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually Templars DO try to hunt down Dalish becaue they know their keepers are apostates. 

Indeed--this is all in the setting lore, it's not just an assumption.

And then the Templars get shot with waves of arrows and end up dead!