Aller au contenu

Photo

Does anyone actually LIKE mages?


1283 réponses à ce sujet

#1076
the_one_54321

the_one_54321
  • Members
  • 6 112 messages

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
The only strict reason I can think of for why they shouldn't is that the potential for demonic possessions poses a threat to themselves as well.

But they're already at risk of possession even if they're not free, so the added marginal risk associated with freedom is smaller in comparison.

Potentially so, yes. But then there is also to be considered the lack of potential gains in terms of absolute value. Igniting a war could also inspire a kind of anti-mage genocide. Currently mages are locked up when found and then given instruction. It could be that once identified they are just killed outright, if something likea mage dictatorship is feared.

That is to say that the existing motivations are not yet so directly opposed to each other that such a thing is seen as reasonable. Yet.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 10 février 2011 - 09:05 .


#1077
Eclipse_9990

Eclipse_9990
  • Members
  • 3 116 messages

Ziggeh wrote...

Elsariel wrote...
Why can't the mages employ their own means of controlling themselves and abominations?  Why must it be up to the Chantry to rule over them and instill fear into the hearts of non-mages?

We have reasons to believe they do, to one extent or another, but I'd say the main issues in self policing are trust and funding.


Trust? Why would anyone let alone a Mage...Especially a Mage. Want an Abomination running around? Simple. They wouldnt. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 10 février 2011 - 09:06 .


#1078
Sylvius the Mad

Sylvius the Mad
  • Members
  • 24 111 messages

the_one_54321 wrote...

More specifically for this fictitious issue, there is no real reason why the mages and Templars should not be at war with each other. Strictly speaking, for the most part the only purpose they serve to each other is as a threat.

More importantly, I think, if one is trying to uncover some sort of moral truth, is that the Templars exist only to be a threat to mages, whereas the mages' existence appears to be a natural event.

#1079
Taleroth

Taleroth
  • Members
  • 9 136 messages

Ziggeh wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
The only guy in the entire game who genuinely seems to think Mages are a danger is Cullen, and he's displayed as a raving loon by that point.

Irving, Wynne, Anders, Greagoir. They all comment on the potential dangers. Then we have, like, the actual dangers. The people of redcliffe probably think magic is pretty dangerous.

Let me rephrase.  Cullen is the only one who thinks the danger is so significant as to really justify a culling.  That's the dilemma DAO presented.  To cull or not.

#1080
Elsariel

Elsariel
  • Members
  • 1 003 messages

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, the only real reason I can think of as to why mages don't just try to form a dictatorship over all people is because there are groups of them that recognize that they threat they pose is also potentially to themselves.


You're talking about mages in Ferelden specifically, right?  I think the reason why they don't form a dictatorship is because there are Templars that are trained to disable their magic and kill them at any hint of an uprising.  If they just try to escape, they're hunted down by use of the phylactory and outright killed.  Any mage whom they think may be susceptable to becoming an abomination is made Tranquil.

The Chantry rules over the mages with fear.

#1081
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Taleroth wrote...

Let me rephrase.  Cullen is the only one who thinks the danger is so significant as to really justify a culling.  That's the dilemma DAO presented.  To cull or not.

In gaming terms, yeah, that dilemma is pretty straightforward. Do you kill everyone, or only the monsters? It's not really much of a dilemma at all. But the situation itself poses a number of moral questions, which internally change the way you respond to various NPCs, but a good deal of what I would consider part of the gameplay happened externally. I consider this discussion right here a part of the gameplay, discussing the questions posed.

#1082
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Trust? Why would anyone let alone a Mage...Especially a Mage. Want an Abomination running around? Simple. They wouldnt.

Unless they were an abomination themselves, which would be a concern. But it's not just about abominations.

#1083
Last Vizard

Last Vizard
  • Members
  • 1 187 messages
I think the Kingdoms just need to educate their people better, in the DA universe it seem like any Mage that isn't taught by older Mages at a young age will most likely accept a deal with demons because they don't understand what the demons really want......



Mages need more freedom than the Chantry gives them but they shouldn't be aloud to roam free either, taking the blood of those with magic to enable Templars or some Inquisitor organisation to know where mages are needs to be continued however they shouldn't be treated like they are cursed or abominations. They should be valued members of the Kingdom and be given the chance to help using their "Maker given" powers.(be it in a Military role or otherwise.... kinda like alchemists in FMA Brotherhood)



The circle towers is a good idea but they just need more freedom and better treatment, If i was Emperor i wouldn't throw away the military and domestic potential Mages would bring to my Empire, it would soon be realised by all the benifits from having children with Magic abilities and such that it would quickly spread throughout the families.



If i was a mage i would fight hard to defend a country and its people if they understood me however if a countries fear made them want to cage me like an animal then they would have to deal with an all powerful mage destroying everything in the Kingdom.



These are Arcane Warriors:

This shows a collection of Hollow Demons vs Arcane Warriors that do combat while spirit walking





This shows the clash between Arcane Warrior Sasuke and other Arcane Warriors





This shows the battle fought against the Arcane Warrior Broly (near living God Mage)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDyK016lY7U&feature=related

#1084
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Last Vizard wrote...

they shouldn't be treated like they are cursed or abominations.

They pretty much are cursed. Monsters will attempt to inhabit their head and kill or feed from anyone they might meet, and this won't stop even after they die. As curses go, that's a doozy.

But I'll grant you abomination. Question though, do you believe it's right to treat them as potential abominations?

#1085
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

the_one_54321 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I don't think anyone is taking seriously the notion that people not being the same means that they don't deserve to be treated as equals. The current system seems to be well on its way to leading to an all-out war between the templars and the mages.

I know that at least 3 posters, including myself, are.

Here's the thing: just because a concept appeals to common sense does not mean it is a sound concept. In fact most concepts that appeal to common sense are found to be unsound when examined thoroughly.

More specifically for this fictitious issue, there is no real reason why the mages and Templars should not be at war with each other. Strictly speaking, for the most part the only purpose they serve to each other is as a threat. Again, the only real reason I can think of as to why mages don't just try to form a dictatorship over all people is because there are groups of them that recognize that they threat they pose is also potentially to themselves.


Loyalists vs. Libertarians are two sides who will never agree on the issue, and all this thread has done is illustrate the same. The same arguments are made back and forth, and nothing changes. You think mages should be oppressed, I see no reason to support this view - including the codex entries explaining the history of the Circle during the formation of the Orlesian Empire and the reason behind mages being imprisoned were the result of a bloodless protest. Ian and others have proposed alternatives to the current Chantry system that would provide law enforcement and protect people against any abuse of magic. Treating people as though they're sub-human isn't going to do anything but cause problems- like an all-out war.

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
The only strict reason I can think of for why they shouldn't is that the potential for demonic possessions poses a threat to themselves as well.

But they're already at risk of possession even if they're not free, so the added marginal risk associated with freedom is smaller in comparison.

Potentially so, yes. But then there is also to be considered the lack of potential gains in terms of absolute value. Igniting a war could also inspire a kind of anti-mage genocide. Currently mages are locked up when found and then given instruction. It could be that once identified they are just killed outright, if something likea mage dictatorship is feared.

That is to say that the existing motivations are not yet so directly opposed to each other that such a thing is seen as reasonable. Yet.


Some feel it's better to die on their feet than live on their knees. Better to die free than under the subjugation of the Chantry.

#1086
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

Ziggeh wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

If they value ambiguity, I don't think they're doing it very well. DAO lacked in that department heavily.

How so? They give us enough information to let us think it's flawed and troubling, but not enough to come up with a viable alternative. Heck, there are arguments in this thread about who actually controls the tower. There isn't strong evidence in any direction.


People have come up with alternatives to what the Chantry is doing. And the Chantry controls the Circles, that's why they said no to the Magi boon (per David Gaider) and why the recent codex referenced templars controlling mages in Andrastian societies.

Ziggeh wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

And making sure you have an apostate in your family doesn't do well for endearing the player to the Templar's argument.

Unless we're not given the option of siding with one or the other, I'm really rather certain they'll be attempting to balance that element of the eqaution. Rather looking forward to it myself.


The recent comments by Michael Hamilton seem to imply that it'll be a possibility to side with the mages, given the response to the Chantry turning down the Magi boon. I suppose it'll also be possible to side with the templars.

#1087
EmperorSahlertz

EmperorSahlertz
  • Members
  • 8 809 messages

Elsariel wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, the only real reason I can think of as to why mages don't just try to form a dictatorship over all people is because there are groups of them that recognize that they threat they pose is also potentially to themselves.


You're talking about mages in Ferelden specifically, right?  I think the reason why they don't form a dictatorship is because there are Templars that are trained to disable their magic and kill them at any hint of an uprising.  If they just try to escape, they're hunted down by use of the phylactory and outright killed.  Any mage whom they think may be susceptable to becoming an abomination is made Tranquil.

The Chantry rules over the mages with fear.

It took years before the Circle decided Jowan was unfit for the Harrowing, years. And it was only after an apparent eye-witness, that Jowan was, rightfully, branded a Maleficar. A mage is never judged baselessly. At least we got no proof of such.
Lob is probably going to bring up D'sims now, to which I say: You got no poof that he didn't resist. So why do you keep trying to make it sound like you do?

#1088
Taiyama

Taiyama
  • Members
  • 424 messages
The problem here is that locking up mages against their will is by its very nature, and apart from whatever power they may wield, a violation of the non-aggression principle that we all intrinsically live by (for example, if I punched you or took something of yours, you would view that as wrong and something that needs to be redressed). The non-aggression principle is the fundamental axiom around which law must be built. If you want to know why the non-aggression principle is so important, go look at Argumentation Ethics or one of the many many MANY philosophies that attempt to justify that principle. It is not the purpose of this thread to debate such matters and I will continue under the assumption the rest of you have accepted it.

Locking up a mage or otherwise confining them to a tower or any place against their will is a violation of their prior property rights of their own body (as they "homesteaded" their own body prior to you, they have use-rights over that body whereas you do not). One cannot logically deny a mage use of his property rights in his body, so long as he too does not violate the non-aggression principle, and still hold that property rights should be enforced for you yourself. If you lock up mages, you open yourself to justifiably be stolen from, as you have relinquished your property claims to both your physical property and your body. Again, I know I'm being tautologous, but the non-aggression principle either is or is not a valid moral law. Any other viewpoint is by its very nature self-contradictory and therefore invalid.

But the question arises, then, what shall we do about the mages? Shall we simply let them roam free? What if they set fire to all our houses or get themselves possessed by demons? These are all valid questions and must be addressed. Let us say that the OP, hating mages as he does, gets together his fellow villagers and says "You know what? F*** mages. Always going around and starting sh**. Stupid sparklefingers. I say we don't let any damn mages in our town!" and the town thereafter begins to ostracize all mages. This is a legitimate course of action, though some of us may see it as bigoted, as they are simply exercising their property rights over their roads and land. This is the process that those in the Old American West called "blackballing"--basically, ostracism. It's the first thing that pops into my head if one is worried about mages. Simply do not let them enter your town. Road owners can simply deny them access to their property and other such things.

The templars, of course, would very likely still be of use in fighting mages who have broken the law. The Circle of Magi could likely also exist as a voluntary place of training and a getaway for mages who wished it. If they're truly so concerned that rogue mages will accidentally get possessed by demons, they can perhaps have some of their own travel about and attempt to convince them to join the Circle/teach them there? I admit not possessing entire knowledge of the Dragon Age world, so of course there are some solutions to these problems that could escape me. The point is, just because it might be a tad difficult to find solutions to the mage problem that do not violate the non-aggression principle, doesn't mean we should abandon the principle altogether. The current abuses of the Circle and Chantry only breed more people like Anders who go to extreme lengths to fight the injustice, thus causing more problems, thus causing more deaths, thus creating more people who hate mages, thus increasing the cracking down on mages, etc. etc. in a vicious cycle. It is a sober fact of life that violence only begets more violence. The current method causes more problems than it creates.

Modifié par Taiyama, 11 février 2011 - 03:57 .


#1089
Taiyama

Taiyama
  • Members
  • 424 messages
Fun fact: the quote button is not the edit button. Derp derp. Ignore this, please.

Modifié par Taiyama, 11 février 2011 - 03:56 .


#1090
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It took years before the Circle decided Jowan was unfit for the Harrowing, years. And it was only after an apparent eye-witness, that Jowan was, rightfully, branded a Maleficar. A mage is never judged baselessly. At least we got no proof of such.
Lob is probably going to bring up D'sims now, to which I say: You got no poof that he didn't resist. So why do you keep trying to make it sound like you do?


Coming from the person who said a mage is never judged baselessly and seems to forget that we have no proof that Aneirin is a maleficar? Not to mention Wynne and Aneirin don't even treat it as being true. Because if that's the case, then templars tried to murder a fourteen year old boy for no reason. 

And I didn't realize a fradulent mage who pretended to heal people would be such a threat to armored soldiers. Maybe you have proof that it was warranted for the templars to cut off his head?

Modifié par LobselVith8, 11 février 2011 - 04:03 .


#1091
Balitant

Balitant
  • Members
  • 95 messages

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, the only real reason I can think of as to why mages don't just try to form a dictatorship over all people is because there are groups of them that recognize that they threat they pose is also potentially to themselves.


You're talking about mages in Ferelden specifically, right?  I think the reason why they don't form a dictatorship is because there are Templars that are trained to disable their magic and kill them at any hint of an uprising.  If they just try to escape, they're hunted down by use of the phylactory and outright killed.  Any mage whom they think may be susceptable to becoming an abomination is made Tranquil.

The Chantry rules over the mages with fear.

It took years before the Circle decided Jowan was unfit for the Harrowing, years. And it was only after an apparent eye-witness, that Jowan was, rightfully, branded a Maleficar. A mage is never judged baselessly. At least we got no proof of such.
Lob is probably going to bring up D'sims now, to which I say: You got no poof that he didn't resist. So why do you keep trying to make it sound like you do?


From what we were hearing of Anders, one of his friends are made tranquil without his compliance in the proceadure (while he is trying to save him).

And if I am going through this path I may as well say it. As useful as being made tranquil is to stopping demon posesions I can never get over how one is essentially lobotomized into a servant.  The fact that they can do the process without the mage's consent means its open to abuse.

Modifié par RiskyRannis, 11 février 2011 - 07:52 .


#1092
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

RiskyRannis wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Again, the only real reason I can think of as to why mages don't just try to form a dictatorship over all people is because there are groups of them that recognize that they threat they pose is also potentially to themselves.


You're talking about mages in Ferelden specifically, right?  I think the reason why they don't form a dictatorship is because there are Templars that are trained to disable their magic and kill them at any hint of an uprising.  If they just try to escape, they're hunted down by use of the phylactory and outright killed.  Any mage whom they think may be susceptable to becoming an abomination is made Tranquil.

The Chantry rules over the mages with fear.

It took years before the Circle decided Jowan was unfit for the Harrowing, years. And it was only after an apparent eye-witness, that Jowan was, rightfully, branded a Maleficar. A mage is never judged baselessly. At least we got no proof of such.
Lob is probably going to bring up D'sims now, to which I say: You got no poof that he didn't resist. So why do you keep trying to make it sound like you do?


From what we were hearing of Anders, one of his friends are made tranquil without his compliance in the proceadure (while he is trying to save him).

And if I am going through this path I may as well say it. As useful as being made tranquil is to stopping demon posesions I can never get over how one is essentially lobotomized into a servant.  The fact that they can do the process without the mage's consent means its open to abuse.

Yes its a horrid practice indeed.:(

#1093
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You main failing Lob, is that you are dead-locked in the rebellious mages perspective. You fail to see things properly from other sides.

Irwing seesm confident.? Mages can be trusted because mages say they can be trusted?


I noted Irving's conversation along with the lack of an independent Circle in Orzammar, but I see how you're going to ignore that to go on another anti-mage rant and talk about how the Chantry is wonderful and how templars pee raindows and poop puppies.


Anti-mage? I never was or never will be nati-mage. I like mages.
Nor do I put the chantry on a pedistal.
I'm a relist...you are an extremist.


Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Would that argument pass with any sane individual on Thedas? If I told you that templars can be trusted becasue the Divine told me so, you'd call me out instantly on that BS argument.

Mages in power has been proven to be a horrible thing in the past. Old Tevinter was pretty much a horrible, horrible place.


You mean like Arlathan and the Dales? And I'm certain some Dalish elves would argue that as a case against humans, given how mages are among the clans in positions of leadership.


The Arlathan that we know practicly nothing about? The Arlathan that was destroyed?
The same Dales we know little about? The same Dalish that had (at is seems) NO control or oversight over their keeper, which resulted in a terrible curse that caused the death his own people?

Oh yes, those systems are MUCH better...Now try to convince some random Ferelden pesant to support you.:D



Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mages cannot really be trusted. Not only because they may be abominations (so the mage you're talking to isn't really tehre anymore...his owrds are nto his), but because of blood magic and mind control (your thoughts are not yours).

Trust is IMPOSSIBLE..especially for other people in power. Like kings and nobles.


Why do you take such a position? Oh wait... aren't you and Emperor the ones who argued that mages are property of the Chantry?


Nope. All in your head.

And why do  Itake that position? Because it's the only logical position to take.
Trust someone who can mind control? That is an oxymoron in itself.

"But X would never do that! He's my friend!"
Is he? Od did he just make you think that?

You truly expect people and governments to jsut rely on the good will of those individiuals? That's incredibly naive.

#1094
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

the_one_54321 wrote...

The counter comes in the form of the nature of contradiction in the situation itself. The mages feel antagonized because they are controled. But the mages must be placed under some from of control because an untaught  or unsupervised mage is extremely more vulnerable to posession, as was explained to us (and shown to us) during the game. Certainly, there is always room for improvement and more humane treatment in that system of control. But it does absolutely need to be there, and any form of conrtol will eventually create some from of antagonism.


Well said.
Antagonism is NO proof whatsoever of the ineffectiveness of the system.

#1095
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...
Mages are people and deserve basic rights like everyone else does.


I am a ticking time bomb and I desrve the right to sit right next to you and your faimily.:P

#1096
kane442

kane442
  • Members
  • 302 messages
fantasy worlds allow people to be idealistic and there is nothing wrong with that ....do i like mages yes...should they be trained by a overseeing group, yes........ should the harrowing be in place, yes ....should proven mages be given more freedom , yes.... however thats just my point of view

like i said fantasy allows you to be idealistic .... no one has any right to tell you you cant be, there is enough realism in life

#1097
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Anti-mage? I never was or never will be nati-mage. I like mages.
Nor do I put the chantry on a pedistal.
I'm a relist...you are an extremist.


That must be why you said they belong to the Chantry, in support of Emperor's comment that they were Chantry property.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Arlathan that we know practicly nothing about? The Arlathan that was destroyed?
The same Dales we know little about? The same Dalish that had (at is seems) NO control or oversight over their keeper, which resulted in a terrible curse that caused the death his own people?


We know Arlathan had mages (from Witch Hunt) and we know the Dalish clans are lead by the nobility of the Dales (from DA:O) and despite having mages in positions of power, the Dales stood until the Exalted March declared against them by the Chantry. Given that none of the stories we've heard about Arlathan or the Dales place them in the same league as Tevinter, it disproves the idea that mages in power will always be like the Tevinter Imperium by the fact that they were nothing like Tevinter.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh yes, those systems are MUCH better...Now try to convince some random Ferelden pesant to support you.Image IPB 


Better than armed and armored drug addicts watching over children? Image IPB

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why do you take such a position? Oh wait... aren't you and Emperor the ones who argued that mages are property of the Chantry?


Nope. All in your head.


Let's see about that...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Mages of the Collective might not be abominations currently, but that does not mean tehy are safe from possession. No matter how you put it, no matter which examples you bring forth, every mage everywhere is constantly under threat of possession. There is no use denying it. The lore states as much. So it stands to reason that some mages in the collective, at some point in the past or in the future might have been or will become abominations, and once that happens, the abomination won't be contained in a tower like circle mages, but it will be free somewhere on the countryside.
The amount of mages amongst the Dalish and the Cult of Andraste is so small that they would have few troubles with abominations to begin with, add to that that they probably can't control them, so they kill them. That is the sole reason we don't see abominations in those groups. Aside from the fact that they are rare to begin with. Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist or is somehow immune to possession.

Also, the Chantry owns all the Circles. If Ferelden were to expel the Templars and "free" the mages. It would basically be theft of Chantry "property", and borderline heretical. So of course that would result in an Exalted March against Ferelden.



You later supported this view:

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Theft of Chantry property? No. It would be undermining their control and authority in an area they feel the Maker has given them complete control. And it would also be just another excuse to force a monarch in line.


Pharse it as you wish, it doesn't change what it is. The Cirlces are under Chatnry control and they run them. Ergo, they belong to the Chatnry.


Apparently it's not all in my head.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And why do  Itake that position? Because it's the only logical position to take.
Trust someone who can mind control? That is an oxymoron in itself.

"But X would never do that! He's my friend!"
Is he? Od did he just make you think that?

You truly expect people and governments to jsut rely on the good will of those individiuals? That's incredibly naive.


You mean like the Grey Wardens who use blood magic in order to combat the darkspawn, and the Hero of Ferelden who can use such blood magic?

#1098
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually no.  If you will remember Uldred had almost got done building an army of abominations that would absolutely have PWNED the templars in the tower, and then you would have had a massive outbreak.  Not only did the circle tower system *create* the environment that made the indicident at the circle possible, but they completely failed at containment.  Had it not been for the Grey Warden who just happened to stop by to get help with his treaties, it would have been a total disaster.


No..reinforcements are called and they definatively arrive if you select the option to cull the tower.

And even IF the tower had compltely fallen, it would be the first such case (all other annulments were sucesfull) in 700 years.
I'd call that a good track record.



You have to show that there is enough contradictory interest and evidence to justify a system that denies an entire group of people basic human rights just for being who and what they are. So far, no one has come close to showing that the circle tower system is actually an improvement (in terms of abomination rates) over non-circle system let alone better enough to justify what is a regressive system that promotes antagonisms.

-Polaris


There's plenty of indicators that point that is is effective. There's aslo basic logic. Basic human behavior... And a little thing called reality.

Quite the contrary,  why dont' you prove the abomination rates are worse OR that the system is regressive? Oh yeah....you can't, now can you?

#1099
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

The counter comes in the form of the nature of contradiction in the situation itself. The mages feel antagonized because they are controled. But the mages must be placed under some from of control because an untaught  or unsupervised mage is extremely more vulnerable to posession, as was explained to us (and shown to us) during the game. Certainly, there is always room for improvement and more humane treatment in that system of control. But it does absolutely need to be there, and any form of conrtol will eventually create some from of antagonism.


Well said.
Antagonism is NO proof whatsoever of the ineffectiveness of the system.


Well said? Mages don't need to be oppressed. We know the Dalish clans, the Chasind tribes, and the mages of Rivain aren't under templar or Chantry control. It doesn't absolutely need to be there, nor is there any proof that supports such a position.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Mages are people and deserve basic rights like everyone else does.


I am a ticking time bomb and I desrve the right to sit right next to you and your faimily.:P 


Inferring the death of my family? Wow, you're such a charming person, Lotion. I can't imagine why anyone thinks you're a troll.

#1100
kane442

kane442
  • Members
  • 302 messages

kane442 wrote...

fantasy worlds allow people to be idealistic and there is nothing wrong with that ....do i like mages yes...should they be trained by a overseeing group, yes........ should the harrowing be in place, yes ....should proven mages be given more freedom , yes.... however thats just my point of view

like i said fantasy allows you to be idealistic .... no one has any right to tell you you cant be, there is enough realism in life


i quote myself so that a post other than bickering based on real life about a fantasy world can be seenImage IPB