122 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

HEh..if there is a new book, I'd love it if it threw a better light on the Chatnry/templars.

Given what some of the comic book writers are turning them into evil villains ™ and lots of hate on the forums, it seems the grey aspect doesn't come trough.

could also be because we really saw the game and the word from the mages perspective, but lack that of commoners or templars Aalistair doesn't count).

There isn't lots of hate on the forum, people simply disagree with what the Chantry does. Nobody is saying that the Chantry or the Order of Templars are evil. People don't hate the Chantry or the templars, they don't agree that what's done to the mages of the Circles is good. If you tell Wynne the Circle is oppressive, her response is that the Warden can change that (as a member of the Circle of Magi). She never denies the term used. Given how the trailer shows a war between Templars and Mages, I fail to see how they're wrong in thinking that an alternative solution would be better.

[Mariefoxprice83]

I'd love a book on the Antivan Crows.

[Beerfish]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

HEh..if there is a new book, I'd love it if it threw a better light on the Chatnry/templars.

Given what some of the comic book writers are turning them into evil villains ™ and lots of hate on the forums, it seems the grey aspect doesn't come trough.

could also be because we really saw the game and the word from the mages perspective, but lack that of commoners or templars Aalistair doesn't count).

There isn't lots of hate on the forum, people simply disagree with what the Chantry does. Nobody is saying that the Chantry or the Order of Templars are evil. People don't hate the Chantry or the templars, they don't agree that what's done to the mages of the Circles is good. If you tell Wynne the Circle is oppressive, her response is that the Warden can change that (as a member of the Circle of Magi). She never denies the term used. Given how the trailer shows a war between Templars and Mages, I fail to see how they're wrong in thinking that an alternative solution would be better.

Uh, yeah there is a lot of hate and there are a lot of people saying that the chantry and the tempalrs are evil.  You must be ignoring a heck of a lot of posts from the long mage vs/chantry templar threads.

[LobselVith8]

Beerfish wrote...

Uh, yeah there is a lot of hate and there are a lot of people saying that the chantry and the tempalrs are evil.  You must be ignoring a heck of a lot of posts from the long mage vs/chantry templar threads.

I'm not looking to start a debate and I already know you're pro-Chantry, but people saying they disagree with what the Chantry and what the templars do isn't hate. Let's leave it at that and not turn this into another Templar vs. Mage debate.

[PsychoBlonde]

Lapetus wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

I should have kept quieter too -- it was pretty great how people were taking that "No." as implying Sten and taking that as implying a qunari protagonist, and -- gasp -- oh my lord is David Gaider going to write a book about Wynne getting knocked up by a qunari?

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Knocked AROUND. She was knocked AROUND by a Qunari.
...

LOL

She still keeps the horned hedgehog around, she uses him to hold her yarn when she's knitting.

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...
I'm not saying it was poorly written, it just lacked the depth I look for in a book.

I'm grabbed mostly by characterization, and especially on that score I loved both novels.  The moreso the more I thought about the characters because a lot is implied rather than spelled out (which I think is deliberate).  TST gets the edge for me because I also like the "Red Dawn" kind of theme.

Everyone has their take, of course, but I don't think a story needs to be "deep" to be good.  Sometimes it works the opposite and simplicity is best.  There are a lot of writers trying to write "deep" stuff and not as many who are just trying to be good storytellers.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 février 2011 - 07:13 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Simple and deep are not antonyms. Simple and COMPLEX are antonyms. And a lot of people confuse complexity with depth. After all, if I don't understand it, it MUST be Important, right?



By objective standards, neither book qualified as really high-quality storytelling. Stolen Throne has major "show, don't tell" issues that undercut the plot badly. The Calling has amateur writing mistakes that any major editing house would have stomped on: "ridden" phrases all through the book--you can make a DRINKING GAME just on some of the phrases Mr. Gaider reuses--and a tedious recycling of the Maric/Katriel relationship from Stolen Throne that turns Maric into a pitiful one-note character.



Are they truly dreadful? No--quality-wise I'd place them solidly in R.A. Salvatore territory, which is pretty good for fantasy game-related novels. Maybe pushing David Eddings or the early days of Weis/Hickman. Are they *good*? No. Terry Pratchett is good. Steven Brust is good.

[Cigne]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Simple and deep are not antonyms. Simple and COMPLEX are antonyms. And a lot of people confuse complexity with depth. After all, if I don't understand it, it MUST be Important, right?

By objective standards, neither book qualified as really high-quality storytelling. Stolen Throne has major "show, don't tell" issues that undercut the plot badly. The Calling has amateur writing mistakes that any major editing house would have stomped on: "ridden" phrases all through the book--you can make a DRINKING GAME just on some of the phrases Mr. Gaider reuses--and a tedious recycling of the Maric/Katriel relationship from Stolen Throne that turns Maric into a pitiful one-note character.

Are they truly dreadful? No--quality-wise I'd place them solidly in R.A. Salvatore territory, which is pretty good for fantasy game-related novels. Maybe pushing David Eddings or the early days of Weis/Hickman. Are they *good*? No. Terry Pratchett is good. Steven Brust is good.

Quite a few of the problems I saw should have been caught by the editors; I felt the that the biggest fault in TST was that the Katriel character was too underdeveloped.

And Steven Brust is great.

[bzombo]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Simple and deep are not antonyms. Simple and COMPLEX are antonyms. And a lot of people confuse complexity with depth. After all, if I don't understand it, it MUST be Important, right?

By objective standards, neither book qualified as really high-quality storytelling. Stolen Throne has major "show, don't tell" issues that undercut the plot badly. The Calling has amateur writing mistakes that any major editing house would have stomped on: "ridden" phrases all through the book--you can make a DRINKING GAME just on some of the phrases Mr. Gaider reuses--and a tedious recycling of the Maric/Katriel relationship from Stolen Throne that turns Maric into a pitiful one-note character.

Are they truly dreadful? No--quality-wise I'd place them solidly in R.A. Salvatore territory, which is pretty good for fantasy game-related novels. Maybe pushing David Eddings or the early days of Weis/Hickman. Are they *good*? No. Terry Pratchett is good. Steven Brust is good.

it's all your opinion. your "objective standards" may be wrong to someone else. music, literature, tv, and film all have various degrees of quality, depending on who you ask. to me, imposing your own, and in my opinion snobbish, standards on the tastes of others is kinda wrong to me. just because you say it does not mean it is true. i don't think anyone is trying to say gaider's books are classics anyway. just good, fun reads.

[Addai]

@PsychoBlonde: Fiona is a recycled Katriel? Just because she's an elf who had an affair with Maric? That's skimming the surface and leaving the rest behind.

I'm not going to get into comparative assessments. At one point I was going to make a living as a lit professor, but I got out in time and don't care to relive the dream.  LOL  I don't require that a novel meet every expectation- I just want to hear a good story. If I'm still thinking about characters a year or so after I read the books, that qualifies as something. There are certain authors that I'll read anything they put out just because it's from that author, and Gaider is one of them.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 février 2011 - 08:03 .

[Addai]

Cigne wrote...
Quite a few of the problems I saw should have been caught by the editors; I felt the that the biggest fault in TST was that the Katriel character was too underdeveloped.

Yeah that's true, I got the sense that both novels were written under time and page count pressure.  You could go back and write a lot in the middle years where Rowan and Loghain are running around the Bannorn, for instance, and like you said we only got a few glimpses of Katriel as a person rather than a plot mover.  That's a case of wanting more, though.

I haven't read any of the game comics because I'm not so into that style.  How do people find those?

[arcane-weirdo]

What's a book?

[Vaelidor]

Addai67 wrote...

Cigne wrote...
Quite a few of the problems I saw should have been caught by the editors; I felt the that the biggest fault in TST was that the Katriel character was too underdeveloped.

Yeah that's true, I got the sense that both novels were written under time and page count pressure.  You could go back and write a lot in the middle years where Rowan and Loghain are running around the Bannorn, for instance, and like you said we only got a few glimpses of Katriel as a person rather than a plot mover.  That's a case of wanting more, though.

I haven't read any of the game comics because I'm not so into that style.  How do people find those?

If by game comics you mean the comic mini-series based on the Dragon Age universe, then there is a Dragon Age Hardcover collecting the entire series coming out on April 5th. It's on sale for only $12 right now actually, which equates to $2 an issue which isn't a terrible price.

Link: http://www.amazon.co...6851036&sr=8-13

[LoneFullmetal]

A book that details some of Kirkwall's recent history before the blight would be cool (sort of like Stolen Throne), I'd really like to know more about the country & it's politics before I jump in.

Stanley Woo wrote...

hey, it was going really well until PsychoBlonde just blurted it out! distinguetraces and I were being very circumspect about the whole thing!

Also, i think I'm House Jigglypuff or snuffleupagus or whatever it's called.

LOL!

[Addai]

Vaelidor wrote...
If by game comics you mean the comic mini-series based on the Dragon Age universe, then there is a Dragon Age Hardcover collecting the entire series coming out on April 5th. It's on sale for only $12 right now actually, which equates to $2 an issue which isn't a terrible price.

Link: http://www.amazon.co...6851036&sr=8-13

Thanks!  I was more asking for people's opinion on the stories.

[Vaelidor]

Addai67 wrote...

Thanks! I was more asking for people's opinion on the stories.



I personally thought the comics were not up to standards with everything else that has been done in the universe thus far. It just felt very....blah. I own all of them for the simple fact that I am a Dragon Age completionist whom is extremely interested in the world. The Mass Effect comics are tons better in my opinion, yet I'm a bigger fan of Dragon Age than Mass Effect. You may enjoy them though, give em a try!!

[Addai]

That's kind of what I've heard, which surprises me, because I also love Orson Scott Card's novels. Maybe the medium isn't his forte. I don't read any manga at all so don't have much to compare them to.

[PsychoBlonde]

Addai67 wrote...

@PsychoBlonde: Fiona is a recycled Katriel? Just because she's an elf who had an affair with Maric? That's skimming the surface and leaving the rest behind.

No, *Katriel* is recycled Katriel.  Fiona is just stereotypical battered chick. 

[thesnowtigress]

bzombo wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Simple and deep are not antonyms. Simple and COMPLEX are antonyms. And a lot of people confuse complexity with depth. After all, if I don't understand it, it MUST be Important, right?

By objective standards, neither book qualified as really high-quality storytelling. Stolen Throne has major "show, don't tell" issues that undercut the plot badly. The Calling has amateur writing mistakes that any major editing house would have stomped on: "ridden" phrases all through the book--you can make a DRINKING GAME just on some of the phrases Mr. Gaider reuses--and a tedious recycling of the Maric/Katriel relationship from Stolen Throne that turns Maric into a pitiful one-note character.

Are they truly dreadful? No--quality-wise I'd place them solidly in R.A. Salvatore territory, which is pretty good for fantasy game-related novels. Maybe pushing David Eddings or the early days of Weis/Hickman. Are they *good*? No. Terry Pratchett is good. Steven Brust is good.

it's all your opinion. your "objective standards" may be wrong to someone else. music, literature, tv, and film all have various degrees of quality, depending on who you ask. to me, imposing your own, and in my opinion snobbish, standards on the tastes of others is kinda wrong to me. just because you say it does not mean it is true. i don't think anyone is trying to say gaider's books are classics anyway. just good, fun reads.

i completely agree with you bzombo. honestly i dont even enjoy reading fantasy novels (i prefer historical novels), but when i heard there were dragon age novels i decided to read them and enjoyed the stories greatly. the only thing i disliked about them were the battle scenes - i read but nothing registered in my head lol. but that's just me, i tend to hate long winded descriptions, but it all depends on the author, some are better at it than others and sometimes, i'm like "why the hell do they have to spend a page describing a pot?". anyway i'm rambling now. i loved gaider's books and look forward to more,

oh, it took me a while but i finally understood gaider's reply. lol. clever.

[Morroian]

Vaelidor wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Thanks! I was more asking for people's opinion on the stories.

I personally thought the comics were not up to standards with everything else that has been done in the universe thus far. It just felt very....blah. I own all of them for the simple fact that I am a Dragon Age completionist whom is extremely interested in the world. The Mass Effect comics are tons better in my opinion, yet I'm a bigger fan of Dragon Age than Mass Effect. You may enjoy them though, give em a try!!

I thought both the DA comics and the ME comics were blah.

[Morroian]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

By objective standards, neither book qualified as really high-quality storytelling. Stolen Throne has major "show, don't tell" issues that undercut the plot badly. The Calling has amateur writing mistakes that any major editing house would have stomped on: "ridden" phrases all through the book--you can make a DRINKING GAME just on some of the phrases Mr. Gaider reuses--and a tedious recycling of the Maric/Katriel relationship from Stolen Throne that turns Maric into a pitiful one-note character.

I agree that TST is better, my main complaint about TC is that there's a lot of filler in it.

Cigne wrote...

And Steven Brust is great.

Steven Brust is genius.

Modifié par Morroian, 04 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Stanley Woo wrote...

hey, it was going really well until PsychoBlonde just blurted it out! distinguetraces and I were being very circumspect about the whole thing!

Also, i think I'm House Jigglypuff or snuffleupagus or whatever it's called.

House Snuffleupagus? Where do I sign up!?

Looking forward to seeing a new book out, where are the rumours that Anders is Wynne's son coming from though? Just baseless speculation?

[Klace]

I never read the Dragon Age: Origins books.
Am I missing out?
I would gladly buy DA2 books, but I'm not so sure about the Origins ones.
They focus on Loghaine?

Modifié par Klace, 04 février 2011 - 09:54 .

[Vaelidor]

Klace wrote...

I never read the Dragon Age: Origins books.
Am I missing out?
I would gladly buy DA2 books, but I'm not so sure about the Origins ones.
They focus on Loghaine?

The first (The Stolen Throne) focuses on Loghain and Maric's relationship mostly. The second one (The Calling) is more about Duncan and Maric, and a lot of Deep Roads...

[Addai]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

@PsychoBlonde: Fiona is a recycled Katriel? Just because she's an elf who had an affair with Maric? That's skimming the surface and leaving the rest behind.

No, *Katriel* is recycled Katriel.  Fiona is just stereotypical battered chick. 

... *confused*  Okay.