I'm pretty much stuck with playing DA2 on Nightmare mode because that's the only way to get friendly fire. No choice, so there it is. And we've read that you're going to need the right party to get through Nightmare.
But, for me one value in playing RPGs is exploring the different strategies of different party setups, and I want my GentHawke's and LadyHawke's parties to be as contrasting as possible.
Ideally, to give a really different feel to the two playthroughs and explore different tactics for the same situations, I had planned to have my mage run a party of three mages plus a tank (GentHawke, "Anders", Merrill and Fenris) and my rogue use a party of three rogues plus a tank (LadyHawke, Isabella, Varric, and Aveline) -- switching out characters when a particular skill is absolutely needed.
But, I'm afraid this is just going to be a recipe for non-stop restarts. Does having to optimize your party to survive nightmare mean we're going to be jammed into a "Tank, Healer, 2 DPS" template or suffer eternal frustration?
is the holy trinity a must for nightmare mode?
Débuté par
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, févr. 03 2011 10:05
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#2
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:07
Chris Priestly
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distinguetraces wrote...
Is the holy trinity a must for nightmare mode?
Saying a prayer to whomever you believe in can't hurt.
#3
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:08
Sticksandstones987
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distinguetraces wrote... I had planned to have my mage run a party of three mages plus a tank (GentHawke, "Anders", Merrill and Fenris)
You want a 2H warrior to be your tank? They generally have pretty ***** amounts of health.
#4
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:11
SammyJB17
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Wouldn't that be the holy quadrality?
#5
Guest_distinguetraces_*
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:14
Guest_distinguetraces_*
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Chris Priestly wrote...
Saying a prayer to whomever you believe in can't hurt.
Thank you for the quick response. But I have to say I find it depressing. It's clear from the above and from Peter Thomas's posts that you've heard the fans who wanted a really punishing experience in Nightmare and are gleefully planning to dish it out to them.
That's great, but I'm not one of those glutton-for-punishment players.
I've been sort of backed into playing on Nightmare through a separate design decision, and the more I hear of "fasten your seatbelts, boys..." the less I look forward to what my experience of combat is apparently going to be.
I just wish you'd given me more of a choice.
#6
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:16
Eveangaline
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You can probably still do the 3 mages and a tank run, assuming you don't care about unlocking stuff.
#7
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:19
Khayness
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The best armor is to never get hit.
#8
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:19
JrayM16
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Is friendly fire really that important to you? Cause in my opinion the ability to use different, cool squad combos is way more valuable than firendly fire, certainly not worth the tradeoff to go to Nightmare mode for.
#9
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:21
JediHealerCosmin
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Chris Priestly wrote...
distinguetraces wrote...
Is the holy trinity a must for nightmare mode?
Saying a prayer to whomever you believe in can't hurt.
Bring it on
#10
Guest_distinguetraces_*
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:22
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Eveangaline wrote...
You can probably still do the 3 mages and a tank run, assuming you don't care about unlocking stuff.
Actually, last night when my human noble proudly refused a reward in a post-quest dialogue and then immediately proceeded to walk past the guy and raid his chest of drawers of some cash, a poultice, and a pair of cheap gloves, I decided to make DA2 the start of a new era of roleplayed looting, so skipping chests will probably become the new rule.
(Although I still think there oughta be a standard strength check to smash chests open, with the difference that this breaks stealth while lockpicking doesn't. Drifting ever further off-topic....)
#11
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:23
ENolan
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Will there be achievements/trophies for playing with a certain party? Now that's the question!
#12
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:24
JrayM16
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The Director wrote...
Will there be achievements/trophies for playing with a certain party? Now that's the question!
I approve of this idea.
#13
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:25
TJPags
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I don't know if DA2 is going to be so much different from DA:O, but I have not needed the "holy trinity" of tank, spirit healer, and DPS to make it through nightmare.
I never have anyone tank, I rarely travel with Wynne, Morrigan got the basic "heal" spell and that's it. I relied on health pots, and set all my companions to various attack/DPS settings. My warden in Origins never operated as a tank, was always in attack/kill mode.
I know a lot of people like the holy trinity set up, and I know a lot of people think it's either necessary or easier. It's not necessary, I don't know if it's "easier", it's a valid party combo/strategy, but unless they REALLY upped the difficulty in DA2, as well as changed the way skills/tactics work, you don't NEED to use it.
I never have anyone tank, I rarely travel with Wynne, Morrigan got the basic "heal" spell and that's it. I relied on health pots, and set all my companions to various attack/DPS settings. My warden in Origins never operated as a tank, was always in attack/kill mode.
I know a lot of people like the holy trinity set up, and I know a lot of people think it's either necessary or easier. It's not necessary, I don't know if it's "easier", it's a valid party combo/strategy, but unless they REALLY upped the difficulty in DA2, as well as changed the way skills/tactics work, you don't NEED to use it.
#14
Guest_distinguetraces_*
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:27
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JrayM16 wrote...
Is friendly fire really that important to you?
At the moment, yes. In Origins, removing friendly fire made combat completely witless.
Cause in my opinion the ability to use different, cool squad combos is way more valuable than firendly fire, certainly not worth the tradeoff to go to Nightmare mode for.
I am prepared to be delighted by a new tactical implementation of combo abilities that will challenge and intrigue me, and make me forget how I ever based a strategy on lining up my front line to shield the mages while still giving them a clear shot for their cones.
At the moment, though, I haven't seen it -- all I've seen is that they've made the one choice that will make combat on less than the Nightmare setting that much dumber.
But really, this wasn't meant to be a stealth friendly-fire thread. I would very much like to hear that combat has been designed on Nightmare to allow for flexibility as well as challenge.
#15
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Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:31
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TJPags wrote...
I don't know if DA2 is going to be so much different from DA:O, but I have not needed the "holy trinity" of tank, spirit healer, and DPS to make it through nightmare.
No, neither did I.
It apparently is going to be different. They have said that they are cranking up the maximum difficulty level quite a bit -- which is a good idea and the right thing to do! A lot of fans wanted hard to be harder while as many wanted easy to be easier. Bioware heard that and responded, and that's great.
It's just that I now find myself unluckily stuck on a setting designed for a very different kind of player.
#16
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:41
TJPags
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distinguetraces wrote...
TJPags wrote...
I don't know if DA2 is going to be so much different from DA:O, but I have not needed the "holy trinity" of tank, spirit healer, and DPS to make it through nightmare.
No, neither did I.
It apparently is going to be different. They have said that they are cranking up the maximum difficulty level quite a bit -- which is a good idea and the right thing to do! A lot of fans wanted hard to be harder while as many wanted easy to be easier. Bioware heard that and responded, and that's great.
It's just that I now find myself unluckily stuck on a setting designed for a very different kind of player.
Yea, I've heard that, too. And I agree, the friendly fire only on nightmare thing is clearly a nod to those who wanted combat easier.
Personally, I intend to continue my typical strategy of taking who I want, and setting them to the appropriate attack settings. I do not enjoy playing with a tank, and will tweak my party combos or tactics as needed to avoid it. In fact, I'll likely turn down the difficulty if need be before I go with the so-called holy trinity party set up.
#17
Posté 03 février 2011 - 10:43
The Bard From Hell
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Am I the only one who found healers to be totally useless? I mean, I have gold and tons of potions. Then I have a mage that can blast her way through everuthing with a snap of her fingers (that is my Mage, not Morrigan). I prefer to end things quickly, for me or for the enemy, than prolonging fights. Answering the whole Trinity stuff... I don't know, I never play on Nightmare, but I surelly hope it's not on lower difficulties.
#18
Posté 03 février 2011 - 11:05
Blackout62
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Well I can't imagine how The Holy Trinity could hurt.
#19
Posté 04 février 2011 - 04:17
HolyAvenger
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Given that DAO can be played succesfully in Nightmare with pretty much any different combos- I've done quest runthroughs with a tank + 3 mages, 2 warriors + 2 mages, 3 warriors + a rogue- I doubt it. Then there's all those solo'ers out there (which I will get around to).
#20
Posté 04 février 2011 - 04:22
Ziggeh
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Mmmm, wouldn't a better question then be: are the settings without friendly fire witless?distinguetraces wrote...
JrayM16 wrote...
Is friendly fire really that important to you?
At the moment, yes. In Origins, removing friendly fire made combat completely witless.
#21
Posté 04 février 2011 - 04:38
A Turkey Frog
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I think the perfectly balanced party would be 1 warrior as the tank, a mage as the primary damage dealer/healer, 1 rogue archer as crowd control, and 1 rogue dual wielder as specializing in 1 vs 1 combat taking down the powerful bosses So for me Aveline, Merril, Varric, and Hawke respectively. Or something like that.
#22
Posté 04 février 2011 - 05:10
Walker White
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distinguetraces wrote...
Does having to optimize your party to survive nightmare mean we're going to be jammed into a "Tank, Healer, 2 DPS" template or suffer eternal frustration?
The fact that the only Controller in that set-up is the Tank (who controls by drawing aggro) illustrates the tremendous damage that WoW has done to tactical thought in RPGs.
As everyone who plays a pen-and-paper RPG knows, controlling spells >> damage spells.
#23
Posté 04 février 2011 - 05:14
HolyAvenger
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Walker White wrote...
distinguetraces wrote...
Does having to optimize your party to survive nightmare mean we're going to be jammed into a "Tank, Healer, 2 DPS" template or suffer eternal frustration?
The fact that the only Controller in that set-up is the Tank (who controls by drawing aggro) illustrates the tremendous damage that WoW has done to tactical thought in RPGs.
As everyone who plays a pen-and-paper RPG knows, controlling spells >> damage spells.
Well said. Nothing like starting off a fight by laying down a Mass Paralysis or Earthquake...
#24
Posté 04 février 2011 - 05:22
errant_knight
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distinguetraces wrote...
I'm pretty much stuck with playing DA2 on Nightmare mode because that's the only way to get friendly fire. No choice, so there it is. And we've read that you're going to need the right party to get through Nightmare.
But, for me one value in playing RPGs is exploring the different strategies of different party setups, and I want my GentHawke's and LadyHawke's parties to be as contrasting as possible.
Ideally, to give a really different feel to the two playthroughs and explore different tactics for the same situations, I had planned to have my mage run a party of three mages plus a tank (GentHawke, "Anders", Merrill and Fenris) and my rogue use a party of three rogues plus a tank (LadyHawke, Isabella, Varric, and Aveline) -- switching out characters when a particular skill is absolutely needed.
But, I'm afraid this is just going to be a recipe for non-stop restarts. Does having to optimize your party to survive nightmare mean we're going to be jammed into a "Tank, Healer, 2 DPS" template or suffer eternal frustration?
Well, I play DA:O with two sword and shield (with no aggro management), a healer mage with a few offensive/defensive spells--but mostly dedicated healing, and mix up who I put in the last slot. I have no problems at all and only have people die in a few boss battles. Almost never everyone forcing a reload. I don't think DA2 will be harder than DA:O, so no, I don't think you'll be forced into a party configuration by playing nightmare
#25
Posté 04 février 2011 - 05:49
PPF65
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HolyAvenger wrote...
Walker White wrote...
distinguetraces wrote...
Does having to optimize your party to survive nightmare mean we're going to be jammed into a "Tank, Healer, 2 DPS" template or suffer eternal frustration?
The fact that the only Controller in that set-up is the Tank (who controls by drawing aggro) illustrates the tremendous damage that WoW has done to tactical thought in RPGs.
As everyone who plays a pen-and-paper RPG knows, controlling spells >> damage spells.
Well said. Nothing like starting off a fight by laying down a Mass Paralysis or Earthquake...
In D&D, nothing compared to opening a fight with meteor storm or wail of the banshee. Extreme damage aoe spells are the only way to go.
Modifié par PPF65, 04 février 2011 - 05:53 .
