363 réponses à ce sujet

[Augoeides]

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan



I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

[AlexXIV]

Augoeides wrote...

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan

I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

If I ever considered it especially helpful I'd choose bloodmagic. I just found spirit healer and arcane warrior better skillsets. My mages are either controllers or healers so I go with creation, spirit and entryopy schools. If bloodmage was, like in the lore, more powerful in gameplay as well I'd probably pick it. But it makes no sense to learn a 'forbidden' skill if it is not even more powerful or anything. It just seems dumb.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 février 2011 - 01:08 .

[Seagloom]

It was actually the first specialization I unlocked on my very first Origins playthrough attempt. It is a fun spec to play. Very versatile too. I think it works best in the hands of a healer, ironically enough. I agree its abilities are iffy though, and shared a bit of my thoughts on that down-thread. Blood wound sounds extremely painful from its description.

[Eclipse_9990]

Augoeides wrote...

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan

I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

Well if you can't handle a few cuts here and there, you really shouldnt be in battle in the first place. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 06 février 2011 - 01:18 .

[Augoeides]

AlexXIV wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan

I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

If I ever considered it especially helpful I'd choose bloodmagic. I just found spirit healer and arcane warrior better skillsets. My mages are either controllers or healers so I go with creation, spirit and entryopy schools. If bloodmage was, like in the lore, more powerful in gameplay as well I'd probably pick it. But it makes no sense to learn a 'forbidden' skill if it is not even more powerful or anything. It just seems dumb.

I've always ended up as a SH/AW in the end. xD

Though there is a fantastic roleplay opportunity for martyrdom as a SH/BM.

[Augoeides]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan

I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

Well if you can't handle a few cuts here and there, you really shouldnt be in battle in the first place. 

Why do you think my mage is standing aaaaaalllll the way over here, lobbing fireballs?

[Augoeides]

Seagloom wrote...

It was actually the first specialization I unlocked on my very first Origins playthrough attempt. It is a fun spec to play. Very versatile too. I think it works best in the hands of a healer, ironically enough. I agree its abilities are iffy though, and shared a bit of my thoughts on that down-thread. Blood wound sounds extremely painful from its description.

Everything other than Blood Magic itself carries the air of something distinctly evil in intention, and I think that comes partly from my own stuff but the Chantry definitely had an impact on those thoughts. I think it's because the abilities sound less humane, as you say Blood Wound sounds very painful, very akin to torture. When I throw a fireball I hope I incinerate the enemy in a second, not slowly burn them (from a roleplay perspective).

[AlexXIV]

Augoeides wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan

I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

Well if you can't handle a few cuts here and there, you really shouldnt be in battle in the first place. 

Why do you think my mage is standing aaaaaalllll the way over here, lobbing fireballs?

Is it the one running in circles crying 'I don't even want to be here!'?

[Eclipse_9990]

Augoeides wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

It was actually the first specialization I unlocked on my very first Origins playthrough attempt. It is a fun spec to play. Very versatile too. I think it works best in the hands of a healer, ironically enough. I agree its abilities are iffy though, and shared a bit of my thoughts on that down-thread. Blood wound sounds extremely painful from its description.

Everything other than Blood Magic itself carries the air of something distinctly evil in intention, and I think that comes partly from my own stuff but the Chantry definitely had an impact on those thoughts. I think it's because the abilities sound less humane, as you say Blood Wound sounds very painful, very akin to torture. When I throw a fireball I hope I incinerate the enemy in a second, not slowly burn them (from a roleplay perspective).

Some of the blood magic spells don't seem too different from some of the normal spells mages can learn. Like Blood Wound is essentially Crushing prison but on a wider scale, and Blood Control is like Waking Nightmare but can only affect one person. 

[Augoeides]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

It was actually the first specialization I unlocked on my very first Origins playthrough attempt. It is a fun spec to play. Very versatile too. I think it works best in the hands of a healer, ironically enough. I agree its abilities are iffy though, and shared a bit of my thoughts on that down-thread. Blood wound sounds extremely painful from its description.

Everything other than Blood Magic itself carries the air of something distinctly evil in intention, and I think that comes partly from my own stuff but the Chantry definitely had an impact on those thoughts. I think it's because the abilities sound less humane, as you say Blood Wound sounds very painful, very akin to torture. When I throw a fireball I hope I incinerate the enemy in a second, not slowly burn them (from a roleplay perspective).

Some of the blood magic spells don't seem too different from some of the normal spells mages can learn. Like Blood Wound is essentially Crushing prison but on a wider scale, and Blood Control is like Waking Nightmare but can only affect one person. 

Good reasons why I may have an adverse reaction to using those spells as well. Less so though.

[Augoeides]

AlexXIV wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Ah, roger that. /scratches out his Litany plan

I'm always tempted to make a Blood Mage but even I, in my staunch defense of the morality of the spec, find its abilities... iffy at times. The whole concept is rather painful as well.

Well if you can't handle a few cuts here and there, you really shouldnt be in battle in the first place. 

Why do you think my mage is standing aaaaaalllll the way over here, lobbing fireballs?

Is it the one running in circles crying 'I don't even want to be here!'?

"Phew! Am I bleeding? Oh look, a rip in my robe. (faints)"

[Seagloom]

Augoeides wrote...

Everything other than Blood Magic itself carries the air of something distinctly evil in intention, and I think that comes partly from my own stuff but the Chantry definitely had an impact on those thoughts. I think it's because the abilities sound less humane, as you say Blood Wound sounds very painful, very akin to torture. When I throw a fireball I hope I incinerate the enemy in a second, not slowly burn them (from a roleplay perspective).

Basically. I see it as needlessly cruel. That lends an air of dubiousness about blood magic. Eclipse makes a good point too, though. I find many other spells similarly bad in the entropy and spirit schools. Sleep + horror is pretty cruel. Curse of Mortality and the Walking Bomb spells are sadistic. I occasionally play stereotypical dark magic users, and when I first saw those spells I was like... this is so perfect for my necromancer wannabe. The codex for spirit also acknowleges how its effects are sometimes mistaken for blood magic.

I usually shun those spells entirely when playing an altruist mage.

Modifié par Seagloom, 06 février 2011 - 01:37 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Augoeides wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

It was actually the first specialization I unlocked on my very first Origins playthrough attempt. It is a fun spec to play. Very versatile too. I think it works best in the hands of a healer, ironically enough. I agree its abilities are iffy though, and shared a bit of my thoughts on that down-thread. Blood wound sounds extremely painful from its description.

Everything other than Blood Magic itself carries the air of something distinctly evil in intention, and I think that comes partly from my own stuff but the Chantry definitely had an impact on those thoughts. I think it's because the abilities sound less humane, as you say Blood Wound sounds very painful, very akin to torture. When I throw a fireball I hope I incinerate the enemy in a second, not slowly burn them (from a roleplay perspective).

Some of the blood magic spells don't seem too different from some of the normal spells mages can learn. Like Blood Wound is essentially Crushing prison but on a wider scale, and Blood Control is like Waking Nightmare but can only affect one person. 

Good reasons why I may have an adverse reaction to using those spells as well. Less so though.

In a way all the offensive spells could be considered evil. Waking nightmare(controlling their mind), fireball(Burning them alive), cone of cold(Freezing them alive).. Petrify(turning someone into stone), Lightning(Frying them with electricty), Rock fist(Smacking someone in the face with a large boulder thats flying pretty damn fast), Crushing prison(Crushing the enemy slowly over time), also a alot of weapon talents like the dual weapon tree could be considered a evil way to kill someone. Like cripple. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 06 février 2011 - 01:39 .

[Augoeides]

It really all boils down to the fact that violence is not a pretty thing, however there are methods of violence that don't make you feel 'as evil', though Maker, I love making Rendon Howe, Loghain, and Cauthrien suffer. I'd also love to roast some Chantry folk, especially the woman from Ostagar who calls me a heathen and thinks the Wardens show weakness for accepting me.



I suppose the spells I use really depend on the enemy and how much rage they generate within me and my character.

[Eclipse_9990]

Augoeides wrote...

It really all boils down to the fact that violence is not a pretty thing, however there are methods of violence that don't make you feel 'as evil', though Maker, I love making Rendon Howe, Loghain, and Cauthrien suffer. I'd also love to roast some Chantry folk, especially the woman from Ostagar who calls me a heathen and thinks the Wardens show weakness for accepting me.

I suppose the spells I use really depend on the enemy and how much rage they generate within me and my character.

Bold 1: Very true indeed. 

Bold 2: Omg me too! She was such a b*tch to me. I hated her.. I've never wanted a renegade interrupt more in my life. 

[Augoeides]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

It really all boils down to the fact that violence is not a pretty thing, however there are methods of violence that don't make you feel 'as evil', though Maker, I love making Rendon Howe, Loghain, and Cauthrien suffer. I'd also love to roast some Chantry folk, especially the woman from Ostagar who calls me a heathen and thinks the Wardens show weakness for accepting me.

I suppose the spells I use really depend on the enemy and how much rage they generate within me and my character.

Bold 1: Very true indeed. 

Bold 2: Omg me too! She was such a b*tch to me. I hated her.. I've never wanted a renegade interrupt more in my life. 

/incinerates chantry woman with a fireball

Soldier: You killed her!
Warden: I thought she was a Darkspawn! :innocent:

[Eclipse_9990]

Augoeides wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

It really all boils down to the fact that violence is not a pretty thing, however there are methods of violence that don't make you feel 'as evil', though Maker, I love making Rendon Howe, Loghain, and Cauthrien suffer. I'd also love to roast some Chantry folk, especially the woman from Ostagar who calls me a heathen and thinks the Wardens show weakness for accepting me.

I suppose the spells I use really depend on the enemy and how much rage they generate within me and my character.

Bold 1: Very true indeed. 

Bold 2: Omg me too! She was such a b*tch to me. I hated her.. I've never wanted a renegade interrupt more in my life. 

/incinerates chantry woman with a fireball

Soldier: You killed her!
Warden: I thought she was a Darkspawn! :innocent:

*Uldred smiles, while Jory, and Alistair watch with mouth agape* 

[Juggernaught203]

Cazlee wrote...

Then all around elves started exploding.

For some reason that made me rofl

[Weltea]

NTsikuris wrote...

As we all know, Blood Magic is a dark, forbidden magic and is usually only taught by demons. But couldn't someone of benevolent nature be a Blood Mage? Surely not all Blood Mages are evil.

I think that Blood Magic being the most dangerous (taking the lifeforce of others,mindcontrol,taught by demons...) was forbidden by the Chantry to avoid any risks. They're already controlfreaks.
I'm sure someone of a benevolent nature could be a Blood Mage. But why would he want to? The benefits of the other kinds of magic are far greater (like;the blood mage killing  a character off for a little more energy vs. the healer healing your whole group)...Unless you plan on doing evil (like the mind control thing) at which point 'benevolent' isn't really fitting anymore.
The law that Blood Magic isn't allowed to be praticed allows the Templars to know which mages are dangerous/evil. Of course that puts idiots like Jowan who just weren't thinking in the same category but it's probably better than going around asking Blood Mages " Now,are you good or evil? Please answer honestly".

[LobselVith8]

Weltea wrote...

NTsikuris wrote...

As we all know, Blood Magic is a dark, forbidden magic and is usually only taught by demons. But couldn't someone of benevolent nature be a Blood Mage? Surely not all Blood Mages are evil.

I think that Blood Magic being the most dangerous (taking the lifeforce of others,mindcontrol,taught by demons...) was forbidden by the Chantry to avoid any risks. They're already controlfreaks.
I'm sure someone of a benevolent nature could be a Blood Mage. But why would he want to? The benefits of the other kinds of magic are far greater (like;the blood mage killing  a character off for a little more energy vs. the healer healing your whole group)...Unless you plan on doing evil (like the mind control thing) at which point 'benevolent' isn't really fitting anymore.
The law that Blood Magic isn't allowed to be praticed allows the Templars to know which mages are dangerous/evil. Of course that puts idiots like Jowan who just weren't thinking in the same category but it's probably better than going around asking Blood Mages " Now,are you good or evil? Please answer honestly".

Considering that Grey Wardens are blood mages to combat the darkspawn, there already are blood mages who aren't using their abilities for personal profit, but trying to stop a force that's intent on destroying mankind. Given the Chantry's questionable Exalted March on the Dales that lead to the elves being forbidden from worshipping their gods and the lack of any anti-mage stigma in the Cult of Andraste we encounter in Haven, I don't know how valid the Chantry's concerns for magic is - since their actions seem to be putting all mages across Thedas under their thumb and their control.

Also, I find it odd that some have accused the DR of destroying the soul of a baby when the entire pupose of it is to keep the Warden from dying because the Archdemon's soul is destroyed when it inhabits a vessel with a soul.

[Juggernaught203]

LobselVith8 wrote...


Considering that Grey Wardens are blood mages to combat the darkspawn, there already are blood mages who aren't using their abilities for personal profit, but trying to stop a force that's intent on destroying mankind.

Actually it would be more correct to say that the Grey Wardens make *use of* Blood Magic, since not all Grey Wardens are Mages and certainly not all (Blood) Mages are Grey Wardens either. If one isn't a Mage by birth, one cannot become a Blood Mage simply because he/she becomes a Grey Warden. It requires the individual to be a Mage in the first place, Grey Warden or no.

Modifié par Juggernaught203, 07 février 2011 - 03:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

NTsikuris wrote...

As we all know, Blood Magic is a dark, forbidden magic and is usually only taught by demons. But couldn't someone of benevolent nature be a Blood Mage? Surely not all Blood Mages are evil. Could the Devs explain more on this subject? It would be greatly appreciated.

Indeed. Jowan was benevolent.

However, the problem with blood magic is that is different than other forms of magic..it is more dangerous. And far more corrupting.

Using your own blood to power magic? Not morally aquestionable by itself, but it does allow a mage acess to huge power.

Stealing the lifeforce of others?  Very dangerous.

But mind control is the big offender. The greatest power, with the greatest temptation and danger.
It may not seem that bad at first, but give it some thought...let your immagiantion run wild with what to do if you had that power.
The tempation to use it would be massive - and you can use it for anything - from gaining wealth fast to fulfuilling your most perverse fantasies. Not to mention that you cannot really trust anyone with mind control powers...if you do trust him..is it because he's really trustworthy, or because he made you think that way? What it that mind control mage gets hold over some arl..or king?

This pretty much makes it clear whay it is forbidden.

[ReallyRue]

A lot of the entropy spells (and some spirit spells) seem just as inhumane as blood magic. I always feel like I have to be a morally dubious character in order to use the disorient -> waking nightmare or drain life -> death cloud spell chains. Drain life in particular sounds exactly like blood sacrifice, only you're stealing your enemy's life instead of your ally's. That's why I always found it curious on the codex about schools of magic that only spirit is sometimes confused with blood magic. I'd have thought entropy was more questionable.
The only magic that doesn't seem suspcious is creation and primal. Creation is mostly beneficial and for allies. Primal is against an enemy but it doesn't seem as 'unprincipled'.

Modifié par ReallyRue, 07 février 2011 - 02:20 .

[LobselVith8]

Juggernaught203 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering that Grey Wardens are blood mages to combat the darkspawn, there already are blood mages who aren't using their abilities for personal profit, but trying to stop a force that's intent on destroying mankind.

Actually it would be more correct to say that the Grey Wardens make *use of* Blood Magic, since not all Grey Wardens are Mages and certainly not all (Blood) Mages are Grey Wardens either. If one isn't a Mage by birth, one cannot become a Blood Mage simply because he/she becomes a Grey Warden. It requires the individual to be a Mage in the first place, Grey Warden or no.

Should have looked closer at what I wrote. I meant that Grey Wardens use blood mages to combat the darkspawn per Duncan's comment on the issue in the Magi Origin if you consider blood magic to be evil in the conversation with him, not that they were all blood mages. I don't see how people can consider blood magic evil when Grey Wardens are created through the magic involving the blood of a darkspawn and an Archdemon - i.e. blood magic.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

NTsikuris wrote...

As we all know, Blood Magic is a dark, forbidden magic and is usually only taught by demons. But couldn't someone of benevolent nature be a Blood Mage? Surely not all Blood Mages are evil. Could the Devs explain more on this subject? It would be greatly appreciated.

Indeed. Jowan was benevolent.

However, the problem with blood magic is that is different than other forms of magic..it is more dangerous. And far more corrupting.

Using your own blood to power magic? Not morally aquestionable by itself, but it does allow a mage acess to huge power.

Stealing the lifeforce of others?  Very dangerous.

Anyone misusing power is dangerous. The arl's son Vaughan misused his authority to kidnap elven women out of the Alienage in broad daylight, after all. Cailan was going to use his position as King to marry Celene, and that would have started a war and likely lead the nation back into being warring teyrns. We've seen both sides of the coin here. Grey Wardens are created through blood magic. Templars use blood magic to track mages. Jowan can use his knowledge of blood magic to save Connor from the demon. Grey Warden mages have used blood magic in the fight against the darkspawn.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

But mind control is the big offender. The greatest power, with the greatest temptation and danger.
It may not seem that bad at first, but give it some thought...let your immagiantion run wild with what to do if you had that power.
The tempation to use it would be massive - and you can use it for anything - from gaining wealth fast to fulfuilling your most perverse fantasies. Not to mention that you cannot really trust anyone with mind control powers...if you do trust him..is it because he's really trustworthy, or because he made you think that way? What it that mind control mage gets hold over some arl..or king?

You mean like Arl Vaughan and the nobles who kidnapped the women? Yeah, if mind control was used to stop them, Shianni would never have been assaulted. What can be done with such power? Don't we see that in DA:O? Stop the darkspawn, stop an enemy from trying to kill you, stop the darkspawn from attacking people. You could make the argument that Ser Cauthrien could have been saved if mind control was an option so we didn't have to kill her at the Arl's Estate in Denerim. Considering that the Grey Warden of DA:O can use mind control to force an enemy to fight for their side or stop the enemy from attacking an innocent, I don't see why you're saying that, universally, no one with such power can ever be trusted. It already exists in the world, and there's no eradicating it. Mind control could have been used to prevent the attempted rape of the women in the Alienage. Mind control can be used to save people from darkspawn and bandits.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

This pretty much makes it clear whay it is forbidden.

Except when templars use it, of course, to track mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lob, you remain as blind and short-sighted as ever.

Failing to put some real thought and see the bigger picture..



No... NO ONE with mind control power can be trusted. AT ALL. NEVER. EVER. No exceptions.



B.t.w - what templars use might even be technicly called blood magic, but if it's, it's the most harmless and normal application of it possible. Creating a tracking item.

That gulf between that and mind control is so large, it might as well be infinite.