450 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Falls Edge wrote...

You're right, I hope that's the case.

Edit: What you just stated was taken from a retail handbook, I can accept it but it really isn't an argument that has any logic to it other than that it is your fault you got short-changed.

Not me, I don't buy bare bones DVDs any more. I don't see why its such a surprise that games are heading down the same path, the fact is the tactics work. At least Bioware have been relatively up front about what is avaialble.

You've read Stan's posts in this thread so you know from their POV how DLC gets produced and why they are able to do Day 1 DLC. IMHO its cut and dried why it isn't part of the main game and that without a separate DLC budget we wouldn't be getting Sebastian.

Modifié par Morroian, 04 février 2011 - 10:26 .

[AlanC9]

Inarborat wrote...

Because they generally release a finished product?  They don't release a book and then come out later and say, "Oh, well here's a character that probably should be in the book but we're going to charge you $7 for it."

Until e-books came along a writer couldn't do this. You had to do a serial rather than introducing stuff earlier in the narrative.

Edit: well, that isn't strictly true. A writer can put out a short story or some such that happens to come within a previously released larger work. For instance, Stephen Donaldson's Gilden-Fire, which is essentially a DLC for The Illearth War, consisting of some material cut for length from the main novel.

www.amazon.com/Gilden-Fire-Stephen-R-Donaldson/dp/0934438544

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2011 - 10:32 .

[koshiee]

 I'm embarrassed for all the people who don't see through the shameless marketing psychology of dlc. this is greed plain and simple, and that's not meant as a value judgment on Bioware/EA. 

[Falls Edge]

Oh, I know the tactics work and my complaining will do nothing about it, I have no bargaining position when the numbers are in their favor, if enough people buy the product I can't complain when I don't get it, it's part of life not to get everything you want.

However most people whine, even though they can't do anything about it, infact a lot of people whine because they can't.

Stan himself has been whining in this thread, but he also acknowledges that this problem will keep popping up regardless of what is said here or anywhere else, because the consumer wants a deal, and they don't have some sort of social network where they all read the same post, or announcement.

However, what Stan posted I linked in another thread and it answered a users question, so in the end he helped ONE person with his post besides me, who answered the question, infact I remember another poster thanking him for the information, so he helped two, counting me three.

I just switched to Sebastion, since I now know enough about preorders where I can't complain about the items, not that I really cared about them, I do care about sebastion though. It is awfully shiny.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 04 février 2011 - 10:35 .

[Morroian]

koshiee wrote...

 I'm embarrassed for all the people who don't see through the shameless marketing psychology of dlc. this is greed plain and simple, and that's not meant as a value judgment on Bioware/EA. 

Yeah its shocking that a public company, beholden to shareholders would be out to make money.

[Morroian]

Falls Edge wrote...

Oh, I know the tactics work and my complaining will do nothing about it, I have no bargaining position when the numbers are in their favor, if enough people buy the product I can't complain when I don't get it, it's part of life not to get everything you want.

If the DLC is good like Shadow broker then I have no complaints, it ends up being a good way to add content. This is where Bioware have to be careful with DLC for DA2, because the DLC for DAO was underwhelming. 

[AlanC9]

koshiee wrote...

 I'm embarrassed for all the people who don't see through the shameless marketing psychology of dlc.

Who, exactly, are those people? I haven't seen anyone here who doesn't know what DLC is for.

[Falls Edge]

Morroian wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

Oh, I know the tactics work and my complaining will do nothing about it, I have no bargaining position when the numbers are in their favor, if enough people buy the product I can't complain when I don't get it, it's part of life not to get everything you want.

If the DLC is good like Shadow broker then I have no complaints, it ends up being a good way to add content. This is where Bioware have to be careful with DLC for DA2, because the DLC for DAO was underwhelming. 

Yes, it sure was terrible wasn't it? And short, completely not worth the amount of money spent.

The predatory psychology the other dude was talking about is that a bunch of kids buy games, and the parents don't care enough about the price to get a deal on a game, Kid's don't even realize the value of money which is why a lot of posters say it's "Only 5$" Hell, the developers are aware of the almighty dollar.

So when I see dlc for 7-9 bucks a pop that only lasts a few hours with terrible writing, I watch Lps to make sure they're good beforehand, but do children look at a product beyond a trailer? No? Do parents? No, they don't have the time, so they pay for worthless dlc like the mass effect training room.

Honestly, it's the only reason I recognize that buying used games is a good thing, because of 'THE CHILDREN."

Modifié par Falls Edge, 04 février 2011 - 10:48 .

[I Like Cats And]

All you negative nancys need to cool out. It's simply marketing, incentives to buy the game as soon as possible so they build revenue quicker. And that's true with all businesses, video game companies aren't some moral soldiers. They want to get money as quickly as possible. Nothing wrong with that, you don't yell at McDonalds when they have a Happy Meal toy you don't like because they are only worried about money, they indeed are, Bioware at least tries to make a good product, same thing relax.

[Melduran]

Thank god there's so many of you to point out its a business plan WOW thank you I normaly do all my purchasing with wolf pelts so thank you for bringing us all up to speed on capitalism, and of course thank you for revealing any sort of critisism is just whining another valid lesson apparently everything is acceptable in this world and should be taken as is without question.

[Bullets McDeath]

If it's anything like the pre-release DLC for Origins, most of it will be useless and the rest will be quickly out-paced by regular in-game items. Granted, anytime I've seen a chance to get some I've taken it, but there is some that I will not have and I am not going to lose any sleep over it. You definitely don't need ANY of them... you certainly don't need them ALL, so just sign up for what you can and relax about it.

[Meltemph]

Melduran wrote...

Thank god there's so many of you to point out its a business plan WOW thank you I normaly do all my purchasing with wolf pelts so thank you for bringing us all up to speed on capitalism, and of course thank you for revealing any sort of critisism is just whining another valid lesson apparently everything is acceptable in this world and should be taken as is without question.

ITT:  I can't say anything relevant so I'll try my hardest to obfuscate the talking point.

[Stanley Woo]

Melduran wrote...
Thank god there's so many of you to point out its a business plan WOW thank you I normaly do all my purchasing with wolf pelts so thank you for bringing us all up to speed on capitalism, and of course thank you for revealing any sort of critisism is just whining another valid lesson apparently everything is acceptable in this world and should be taken as is without question.

Re-read my contributions to this thread and please let me know where I have been patronizing, condescending, or dismissive of any of the complaints brought up here. Then please tell me what specific complaints or issues you still have that I have not addressed. i'm pretty sure I've been very thorough here.

I'm fine with questioning, and I'm fine with criticism, but as I've often said: if you cannot bear to hear people disagreeing with you, or if you believe there is only one correct answer (yours), or if you beleive you have the right to dictate how a company does things, then you're no longer questioning. You are demanding (and probably whining. The two are not wholly unrelated).

Your sarcasm and inability to respond in a civil manner aside, I look forward to your response.

[Da_Lion_Man]

What's all this DLC talk? Can someone fill me in? I know about the Signature Edition DLC and the DLC if you pre-order on Steam. Did I miss something?

[Stanley Woo]

Some off-topic chatter removed from thread.

[Falls Edge]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Melduran wrote...
Thank god there's so many of you to point out its a business plan WOW thank you I normaly do all my purchasing with wolf pelts so thank you for bringing us all up to speed on capitalism, and of course thank you for revealing any sort of critisism is just whining another valid lesson apparently everything is acceptable in this world and should be taken as is without question.

Re-read my contributions to this thread and please let me know where I have been patronizing, condescending, or dismissive of any of the complaints brought up here. Then please tell me what specific complaints or issues you still have that I have not addressed. i'm pretty sure I've been very thorough here.

I'm fine with questioning, and I'm fine with criticism, but as I've often said: if you cannot bear to hear people disagreeing with you, or if you believe there is only one correct answer (yours), or if you beleive you have the right to dictate how a company does things, then you're no longer questioning. You are demanding (and probably whining. The two are not wholly unrelated).

Your sarcasm and inability to respond in a civil manner aside, I look forward to your response.

You shouldn't be, there are children lurking in this topic, speaking the way you did spelled it out, not everyone is on the same page.

Though I question your sarcasm comment, every topic needs sarcasm, I'd die if there wasn't some humor in every topic.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 04 février 2011 - 11:13 .

[Maconbar]

Someone please help me. I can't decide whether to spend $8 on DLC or $8+food for a movie. It's toooo confusing for me.

[AlanC9]

Falls Edge wrote...
The predatory psychology the other dude was talking about is that a bunch of kids buy games, and the parents don't care enough about the price to get a deal on a game, Kid's don't even realize the value of money which is why a lot of posters say it's "Only 5$" Hell, the developers are aware of the almighty dollar. 

The only people for whom $5 is real money are kids. For anyone with a job it's trivial. In New York I can't get even one beer for $5 unless I'm drinking swill, and I don't drink swill. 

And if the parents don't think $5 is worth worrying about, why should anyone else?

Edit: guess I got ninja'd by Maconbar there.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2011 - 11:26 .

[Falls Edge]

AlanC9 wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...
The predatory psychology the other dude was talking about is that a bunch of kids buy games, and the parents don't care enough about the price to get a deal on a game, Kid's don't even realize the value of money which is why a lot of posters say it's "Only 5$" Hell, the developers are aware of the almighty dollar. 

The only people for whom $5 is real money are kids. For anyone with a job it's trivial. In New York I can't get even one beer for $5 unless I'm drinking swill, and I don't drink swill. 

And if the parents don't think $5 is worth worrying about, why should anyone else?

...I don't even know what to say to this.

Anyone want to help me out?

Edit: As I might get modded for not responding adequately...Let me simplify it, does a child value 5$? Why? Is it because the parents are strict and only allow the child to have treats once in a while? Or is it because he has an allowance so that he's limited to what he can get and when he can get it? Should a child learn the tough ways of the business world, by buying a product that he won't appreciate and regret? Do you think an adult or a child values money more? An adult does, they have a 9 to 5 job, that they work hard at to earn it, a child need but ask, or perhaps do a small chore.

If you gave your  child a 5$ bill and then he bought a garbage bag from a stranger wouldn't you like, be worried? Wouldn't you tell him it was wrong to do that? You'd have to correct him right?  and tell him why the garbage bag wasn't what it was supposed to be (a tent or whatever) and that it would be dangerous to use a tent out of plastic.

I'm using a more severe example, but buying things that you don't value or appreciate because of no information on the subject and expecting a child to know what's good or not good to buy until he takes it for a spin is quite the expectation don't you think?

Modifié par Falls Edge, 04 février 2011 - 11:36 .

[Stanley Woo]

I'll help you out, Falls Edge. i think more consumers need to take more rseponsibility for their own buying decisions, whether they are adults or "kids." Such responsibility means that, sometimes, you will buy something that you're not 100% satisfied with. not that it's defective or wrong in any way, you just don't like it. This is perfectly normal and a part of the learning process. The more experience you have with making purchasing decisions, the better you'll be able to deal with buying stuff you might not like.

You never have the right to never be disappointed. Consumer power is great, but you have to use it actively, not just hold it up as an ideal and expect everyone to cater to you.

EDIT: But we are definitely drifting off-topic now.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 04 février 2011 - 11:27 .

[Maconbar]

Falls Edge wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...
The predatory psychology the other dude was talking about is that a bunch of kids buy games, and the parents don't care enough about the price to get a deal on a game, Kid's don't even realize the value of money which is why a lot of posters say it's "Only 5$" Hell, the developers are aware of the almighty dollar. 

The only people for whom $5 is real money are kids. For anyone with a job it's trivial. In New York I can't get even one beer for $5 unless I'm drinking swill, and I don't drink swill. 

And if the parents don't think $5 is worth worrying about, why should anyone else?

...I don't even know what to say to this.

Anyone want to help me out?

What would you rather these kids spend their $8 on?

Modifié par Maconbar, 04 février 2011 - 11:27 .

[Falls Edge]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'll help you out, Falls Edge. i think more consumers need to take more responsibility for their own buying decisions, whether they are adults or "kids." Such responsibility means that, sometimes, you will buy something that you're not 100% satisfied with. not that it's defective or wrong in any way, you just don't like it. This is perfectly normal and a part of the learning process. The more experience you have with making purchasing decisions, the better you'll be able to deal with buying stuff you might not like.

You never have the right to never be disappointed. Consumer power is great, but you have to use it actively, not just hold it up as an ideal and expect everyone to cater to you.

EDIT: But we are definitely drifting off-topic now.

Sorry going to stay on topic now.
A 70 dollar lesson is harsh though. Especially for the parent, I guess this isn't a problem for bioware, but it happens with other games.

I uh, I think that it is definitely not the  companies job to inform the buyer about their product, beyond what helps sell the product, also business 101, I know.

To macon, something that they'd enjoy. But let's not talk about this since the mod told me not too.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 04 février 2011 - 11:41 .

[KBomb]

I once bought a pair of Jimmy Choo shoes. I saw them online and wanted them desperately. I saved up and bought them, (not even going to say how much). When I got them, they hurt my feet. No, they ,murdered my feet. I ended up selling them to a friend for a fraction of what I paid. I was a fool, the decision I made was foolish. But it was mine, and I learned from it.

Such is life.



That is something that can be applied to any purchase in life that you make. Sometimes it’s a gamble. The thing about DLC is that is doesn’t have to be. You don’t have to buy them, you don’t have to use them and if you make that decision and later regret, the regret belongs to you. It’s your responsibility to be an informed consumer.



And yeah, it’s $7.00. If that is going to break you, then maybe buying $60.00 video games isn’t a good idea to begin with.

[Sylvius the Mad]

koshiee wrote...

 I'm embarrassed for all the people who don't see through the shameless marketing psychology of dlc.

I don't see why I should care about the marketing psychology behind it.

There's a product being made available for sale at a price.  I can buy it or not.  This isn't meaningfully different from any other product.  I'm not being lied to or deceived in any way.

[JrayM16]

Falls Edge wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...
The predatory psychology the other dude was talking about is that a bunch of kids buy games, and the parents don't care enough about the price to get a deal on a game, Kid's don't even realize the value of money which is why a lot of posters say it's "Only 5$" Hell, the developers are aware of the almighty dollar. 

The only people for whom $5 is real money are kids. For anyone with a job it's trivial. In New York I can't get even one beer for $5 unless I'm drinking swill, and I don't drink swill. 

And if the parents don't think $5 is worth worrying about, why should anyone else?

...I don't even know what to say to this.

Anyone want to help me out?

Edit: As I might get modded for not responding adequately...Let me simplify it, does a child value 5$? Why? Is it because the parents are strict and only allow the child to have treats once in a while? Or is it because he has an allowance so that he's limited to what he can get and when he can get it? Should a child learn the tough ways of the business world, by buying a product that he won't appreciate and regret? Do you think an adult or a child values money more? An adult does, they have a 9 to 5 job, that they work hard at to earn it, a child need but ask, or perhaps do a small chore.

If you gave your  child a 5$ bill and then he bought a garbage bag from a stranger wouldn't you like, be worried? Wouldn't you tell him it was wrong to do that? You'd have to correct him right?  and tell him why the garbage bag wasn't what it was supposed to be (a tent or whatever) and that it would be dangerous to use a tent out of plastic.

I'm using a more severe example, but buying things that you don't value or appreciate because of no information on the subject and expecting a child to know what's good or not good to buy until he takes it for a spin is quite the expectation don't you think?

I don't think it's predatory in that sense, and it would only work in cases where parents should take responsability for watching their children, cases where I always blame the parent.  If a child is really too young to make that judgement and appropraitation(and children are smarter than most think) then parents should take responsability to watch what kids do with whatever money they have.  And besides, most of the games that use this tactic are M-Rated anyway so if the parents bought it for them(which they would have to in the US) then the parent has doubly failed at being responsable for their child so I believe that this argument holds no ground. 

Also, you can't really spend a whole thread talking about how preorder dlc sucks for you and then pull out the "think of the children" argument when a bunch of people disagree..  Make your case that of how  preorder dlc is bad for "you" and leave it at that.