450 réponses à ce sujet

[StormbringerGT]

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

[Seifz]

Aldandil wrote...
What I don't get is how DLC is not considered to be a product, just like any other one. Is it because you download it, so that you don't get a physical copy? Is it because it ties into another game? You still choose to buy it if you think it will give you your money's worth, or choose not to buy it if you don't. I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't be the case.

This is probably the worst part.  It's not too horrible with DA:O and ME2 because you can download and archive the DLC as much as you like, but we'll all be screwed if they don't live up to their words and patch out the authentication checks at some point.

[AlanC9]

ForceXev wrote...

Deja vu.  I remember this exact discussion on the forum about Dragon Age Origins' pre-release DLC, and here we go again.

My opinion is that all of this pre-release DLC is hurting Bioware's image.  It is excessive and it just looks bad.  Regardless of Bioware's good intentions and the realities of game development, the perception it creates is not a good one.

Wait a minute..... you have an opinion about Bio's image? Not just how you feel about Bio, but about how gamers in  general feel about Bio? Is that really a matter of opinion? 

It's hard to make a serious case that DLC is hurting Bio's image. DAO had more-or-less the same kind of DLC that DA2's going to have, as you say. And DAO.... was a success. Same thing for ME2. They won that Studio of the Year award after all the DLC started. And so on.

I guess it's conceivable that Bio could be even more popular and successful if they hadn't hurt their image with all this DLC. But I'm not seeing a  reason for them to believe that.

[Aldandil]

Seifz wrote...

Aldandil wrote...
What I don't get is how DLC is not considered to be a product, just like any other one. Is it because you download it, so that you don't get a physical copy? Is it because it ties into another game? You still choose to buy it if you think it will give you your money's worth, or choose not to buy it if you don't. I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't be the case.

This is probably the worst part.  It's not too horrible with DA:O and ME2 because you can download and archive the DLC as much as you like, but we'll all be screwed if they don't live up to their words and patch out the authentication checks at some point.

That wasn't exactly my point, but am I to assume you would think it was fair if what is now sold as DLC was available as physical copies? Or is it a DRM argument? That doesn't really enter into the discussion, I think, or at least not the topic of the thread.

[Hawke92]

Well,i like the idead of the exiled prince but this about the emporioum sucks ! Why are they doing this to us i mean come on everyone should be able to customise there character.This SUCKS

[Fatex3]

Everyone can customize, the mirror is for re-customizing your character, after final creation.

[philbo1965uk]

Not to mention of course withholding content and pushing DLC is to the detriment of your gaming experience.



It's one thing to have an opinion on the value of DLC to ones self ...but it demonstrates a compete lack of understanding about what you lose as a customer in order for them to secure it.



Favouring DLC over Expansions and removing the ability to create your own custom content to secure DLC equates to less for more.It isn't really a question of wether you like the DLC or not....but to say as some here have they don't care is quite frankly absurd.Unfortunately, the industry knows full well that their customers in general are pathetic and can abuse them like a dodgy market trader selling fake watches.



You wouldn't accept a 1kilo bag of potatoes for $2 when you've being paying the same $2 for 2.5 kilo in life...yet when it comes to gaming you throw your money away with an almost willfull disregard for your overall gaming experience and longevity of title.



When I read here adults declaring DLC is cool , stop moaning about expansion packs Bioware have to make more money....it makes me laugh.



Gaming experience,content,and quality has nosedived so much I've had to curtail my spending on games.I was buying around 8-10 games per year since the 80's ...last two years 2 games !



I'm afraid until such a time that gamers in general stop this indifference they have to serious issues...their gaming experience will continue to be increasingly restrictive and short.Publishers like Activision and EA will continue to milk you like the cash cows you are.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

I wonder how many people know that to reserve a copy of any game at any GameStop, you don't even have to walk in. You can do it from home, with no money down. And of course, it can be easily canceled. But they will ask for your credit card, I think, because if you don't pick it up after like 2 weeks, they'll charge you like $5 if you do it that way (and ONLY if you do it that way) for basically wasting shipping and misallocations, etc.. So, if one knows of such a game with a preorder bonus that they may want...

Seifz wrote...

Aldandil wrote...
What I don't
get is how DLC is not considered to be a product, just like any other
one. Is it because you download it, so that you don't get a physical
copy? Is it because it ties into another game? You still choose to buy
it if you think it will give you your money's worth, or choose not to
buy it if you don't. I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't be the
case.

This is probably the worst part.  It's not too
horrible with DA:O and ME2 because you can download and archive the DLC
as much as you like, but we'll all be screwed if they don't live up to
their words and patch out the authentication checks at some point.

I would agree, really... I prefer expansions because they're usually more significant, but also because you own them. You can install them in your own time, whenever and wherever you want. At least that was back in my day of X-Wings and TIE Fighters and rocks and sticks and muds... and MUDs, sure, but I wasn't in to those. You didn't need to be on a high-speed network to both install and access the DLC. It wouldn't make your save game files unplayable when BioWare's servers are down momentarily. I can say there were a few times, too, when I said "Awe, dangit the internet is down. This is the perfect time to play Dragon Age! Oh wait, I can't." I lose my BioWare games when BioWare cannot observe me? What am I, Schrodinger's Geek?

Just going the the discussion, I really have little more than that against DLC.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 05 février 2011 - 01:29 .

[VioletTheirin]

Stanley Woo wrote...


Thisi s the case with any product. One you leave the store, it is your responsibility to care for it. Neither the retailer, developer, or publisher, has anything to do wtih you falling, the disc breaking in the fall, or the disc rolling into an open sewer opening after you fall, your game box being run over by a herd of rampaging cattle, or you throwing the box in front of a speeding train.

It's a part of negotiation, you are taking a risk for no reason except the possible gamble of getting moar fwee stwuff. Stuff that they specifically designed so that you would preorder it, the dlc for sebastion however is different, he's already been designed he is close or near complete, and they're charging you for him because they can instead of any real reason.

Infact if you want to get into boring ol' history you can ask me about the Mass effect toggle glitch that bioware didn't fix for 3 months after release.

there is no negotiation involved or required. We release a product for sale. At the point of sale, you choose whether you wish to purchase that product at the price requested. If you do, you exchange money for the product. If you do not, no harm, no foul.

DLC is a way to make said product shinier and more attractive for purchase. You may not have wanted the product, but what if it also included a SHINY? Again, at the point of purchase, you choose whether you wish to purchase that product at the price requested. If you do, you exchange money for the product. If you do not, no harm, no foul.

But what if that product could be purchased earlier and came with several SHINIES and a ZOMG? Well, in that case (and stop me if you've heard this one), at the point of purchase, you choose whether you wish to purchase that product at the price requested. If you do, you exchange money for the product. If you do not, no harm, no foul.

did you notice any kind of pattern there? Each and every time, the consumer makes a choice. He can say yes or no for whatever reason he likes. the price is clearly stated, he is under no duress, and there is no penalty for either choice. Not really sure where the "ripping off" or "milking" arguments are coming from.

EDIT: Also, did I mention the game is also available without the DLC? In order to get that version, at the point of purchase...

To me DLC is equivalent to the extras that you can purchase with a new car....think of Sebastian as a pixelated sunroof.  Sunroofs not your thing?  Don't buy that option.  However if the tinted windows aka "sword of murderous murder" or whatever IS your thing...pick that option!

[Seagloom]

As my friend swirl wrote earlier, my concern with this DLC is that too much of it may unbalance the game. I have no problem with these items on principle. I used them in Origins all the time. I also bought the collector's edition in part to get my hands on the three bonus items. The state of Origins has changed drastically since then, however. With all the DLC items my character starts off with she can outfit most of her party before the first quest hub. Some of that gear is so handy it remains relevant throughout the game.



I am aware they can be toggled off, but I feel reluctant to after making the effort of tracking down the right promotion to gain desired items. Journeys for example, was a hellish experience to me. I did not enjoy it in the slightest. The idea of not using the Helm of the Deep after throwing most of a day away playing that flash game annoys me. I realize that is more my failing than anything, but my opinion stands.



That DLC bothers me less than rewards found within "Warden's Keep", "Return to Ostagar", or after completing latter released DLC such as "Witch Hunt", though. I understand throwing in a bunch of weak items might not offer audiences sufficient incentives to shell out dollars for DLC, but with Origins each release hurt game balance more than the last. Then there was Feastday That made an already unbalanced gift system completely trivialize party approval. As long as DA2 does not reach those levels of game twisting, I will be fine. One thing is certain: I will take greater care to word of mouth and hopefully avoid the worst of it.

[Sheanos]

Seagloom wrote...
I am aware they can be toggled off, but I feel reluctant to after making the effort of tracking down the right promotion to gain desired items. Journeys for example, was a hellish experience to me. I did not enjoy it in the slightest. The idea of not using the Helm of the Deep after throwing most of a day away playing that flash game annoys me. I realize that is more my failing than anything, but my opinion stands.

You spent a day grinding a boring flash game in order to gain an item that made your gaming experience less enjoyable. But hey, maybe they'll be nice next time and let you buy it for $10 so you won't have to grind.

[Seagloom]

Sheanos wrote...
You spent a day grinding a boring flash game in order to gain an item that made your gaming experience less enjoyable. But hey, maybe they'll be nice next time and let you buy it for $10 so you won't have to grind.

You may want to reread my post. I found DLC items okay to start. There were not very many of them and aside from the CE stuff they were of middling quality. My experience with Journeys was mentioned as an example of why I feel a need to hold unto items in-game despite having the option to toggle them off. DLC did not start becoming ridiculous until Origins was out for several months and there were promotions being thrown around left and right. I.e.; the Edge, Bulwark of the True King, Bregen's Bow, ect. I am referring to items that were offered simply for playing the game or sending an email. Or items from purchased DLC such as Robes of the Seer or that mace from Amgarrak that can be sold for a small fortune.

Despite your belittling tone, you do make one worthwhile point. It would be better if some items were sold seperately instead of tied to DLC. I prefer BioWare's approach to ME2. There I can buy whatever interests me and merrily ignore the rest.

On a related note, my conclusions were also drawn from personal experience. If I could go back in time and skip Journeys, I would. Since that is not an option however, I am left with only my thoughts of that period. I am ignoring Legends; nor do I intend to download the DA2 demo. My aforementioned past experiences have shown me it is a waste of energy.

Modifié par Seagloom, 05 février 2011 - 06:11 .

[VanTesla]

Falls Edge wrote...

If by 'overwhelmed' you mean pissed off, yes.

I agree to that... Also they should atleast make the DLC work for all systems once you have it for one in my opinion. The free DLC atleast should be for all systems... Bioware should be better than this and above such a thing...

[Morning808]

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

I second that!

[VanTesla]

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

[Phoenixblight]

Hawke92 wrote...

Well,i like the idead of the exiled prince but this about the emporioum sucks ! Why are they doing this to us i mean come on everyone should be able to customise there character.This SUCKS

What are you babbling on about?

The mirror, emporium and the dog are included when you buy the game new. So everyone can have the recustomization as long as they buy the game new and not second hand. 

VanTesla wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

Yes because there is DLC being already sold....wait all of it was free if you preorder it before January 11th. 

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 05 février 2011 - 05:31 .

[Morning808]

VanTesla wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

Then whatever but it just better be worth it...but I know any DLC from Bioware is worth it. And they are not trying to make more money off of you as long as you pre-order! They want you to pre-order thats why they do it!

[Brockololly]

My concern with all of these DLC items is how it may or may not affect the number/quality of items in the vanilla game. One of my issues with ME2 was how the vanilla game really was sparse in terms of weapons. Yet of course they packaged up what seemed like a ton of DLC with extra weapons.

But I'd agree with what Seagloom said too- when you can start the game with your party decked out in overpowered gear from all the DLC/promotions, it kind of seems a bit silly. Sure you don't have to use them, but was the vanilla game designed or balanced on the assumption that the player would have all that stuff from the start? Of course, I'm sure a lot of that stuff will be limited like the Blood Dragon Armor in terms of use, requiring certain stats.

I just think all the preorder/DLC stuff has gotten out of hand with DA2- we know more about the preorder/promo/DLC than the vanilla game. Its a bit excessive:



Pre-Order Items:
* The Lion of Orlais Shield
* The Fadeshear Sword

Buy A New Copy Items:
* A fighting Mabari War Hound
* The Mirror of Transformation
* Access to exclusive Magic and Crafting Stores

Dragon Age: Legends Items:
* Evra’s Might
* Evra’s Trophy Belt
* Air of Confidence
* Ivo Family Crest
* Dura’s Blue Flame

Website Items:
* Staff of Parthalan
* Hindsight

Signature Edition Items:
* The Exiled Prince (DLC)
* Apostate's Courage
* Seeker's Bulwark
* Adder of Antiva
* Might of the Sten

EA Store Item:
*The Irons

Demo Item:
*Hayder's Razor

Dead Space 2 promo:
*Ser Isaac of Clarke armor



Release and market the DLC after we've all had time to play the damn game.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 février 2011 - 05:51 .

[Blastback]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Lethys1 wrote...
many developers (and I am not saying Bioware necessarily) cut content from their product and make it available as DLC afterwards.

And how well did that DLC sell? How many consumers actively chose to buy that DLC to enhance their game experience, despite knowing it was on disc? They still made an active choice. Whether we agree or disagree with that choice is immaterial.

I'm gonna have to disagree with this here.  It's every bit as likely that a large portion of any players who would buy DLC under these circumstances would do so without knowing that it was main game content cut just to sell for extra.  Plenty of casual gamers don't do the kind of reseach that would let them know about this, they'd just see the new content and go "ooo!"

Now, I am actually unaware of any dev ever actually doing this.  For all I know, it's a worst case senario that has never happened.  But it's a fear I can understand.

[Phoenixblight]

Blastback wrote...



Now, I am actually unaware of any dev ever actually doing this.  For all I know, it's a worst case senario that has never happened.  But it's a fear I can understand.

Look up Capcom and Ubisoft. They have been doing it since DLC became mainstream. 

[JrayM16]

VanTesla wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

Not really.  The game has to be finalized and shipped for production over a month before it actually hits shelves.  As I understand it, most dlc comprises of content that was cut for time constraints and finished up during this month or so window.

[Morning808]

I am sorry but if you don't like having powerful stuff from the start of the game its just so simple to just not put it on and leave it in the chest...all this complaining is a bit annoying

Blastback wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Lethys1 wrote...
many developers (and I am not saying Bioware necessarily) cut content from their product and make it available as DLC afterwards.

And how well did that DLC sell? How many consumers actively chose to buy that DLC to enhance their game experience, despite knowing it was on disc? They still made an active choice. Whether we agree or disagree with that choice is immaterial.

I'm gonna have to disagree with this here.  It's every bit as likely that a large portion of any players who would buy DLC under these circumstances would do so without knowing that it was main game content cut just to sell for extra.  Plenty of casual gamers don't do the kind of reseach that would let them know about this, they'd just see the new content and go "ooo!"

Now, I am actually unaware of any dev ever actually doing this.  For all I know, it's a worst case senario that has never happened.  But it's a fear I can understand.

They do cut content and releash it later as DLC, LionHead loves doing it. But I never really cared since its just usally small things like a region or weapons...now if they cut the story in half and make the rest DLC then I will have a problem

[Phoenixblight]

JrayM16 wrote...

VanTesla wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

Not really.  The game has to be finalized and shipped for production over a month before it actually hits shelves.  As I understand it, most dlc comprises of content that was cut for time constraints and finished up during this month or so window.

Uh a month? The game gets locked on content months and months before release and if they can't finish by that lockout time and they feel they can put the content as a DLC they usually put it down that pipeline. 

[Morning808]

Phoenixblight wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

VanTesla wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

Not really.  The game has to be finalized and shipped for production over a month before it actually hits shelves.  As I understand it, most dlc comprises of content that was cut for time constraints and finished up during this month or so window.

Uh a month? The game gets locked on content months and months before release and if they can't finish by that lockout time and they feel they can put the content as a DLC they usually put it down that pipeline. 

Yes and no, usally they start making DLCs between those months but if they do have incomplete content they do release it as DLC and sometimes the company ends up releasing it as Free DLC but EA isn't that big on free DLC

[JrayM16]

Phoenixblight wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

VanTesla wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

I like DLC the more the merrier for me!

What about when it is already out the same time the game is and could have already been part of the package but they decided to sell it off separately to make more money off you?

Not really.  The game has to be finalized and shipped for production over a month before it actually hits shelves.  As I understand it, most dlc comprises of content that was cut for time constraints and finished up during this month or so window.

Uh a month? The game gets locked on content months and months before release and if they can't finish by that lockout time and they feel they can put the content as a DLC they usually put it down that pipeline. 

Well, it's content locked at that point but it doesn't go gold till around a month before.  Either way still proves my point.