450 réponses à ce sujet

[Morning808]

NKKKK wrote...

Morning808 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

dearlyblvd wrote...
If nobody from your company can help me, then should I simply remain silent? This topic is about DLCs. I'm not deviating from the main discussion.

Maybe wait until the weekend is over and people are back in the office?

ROFL!!!!! Modderrater+1!

Yh until it happens to you.

Ya but problem is I don't complaine and keep at it and keep at it, then be rude to a Modderrater and I would most likely still love the comment since its a smart comment

[phantomdragoness]

You're telling me! After I've been laid off, my money has been REALLY tight. However, I was not anticipating this setback, and pre-ordered DA2; so, since I do not want to waste the Signature Edition, I'm going to pay the sixty-something. Hopefully I'll get a job before the game comes out so I can feel safer getting it. If not...oh well. At least I'll have DA2 to keep me occupied until a job pops up.

[Revan312]

What's funny is pre-order dlc actually increases piracy in my experience.

I'm not gonna beat around the bush, I've pirated games before, blatantly at times, others to see what it was like before I purchased. And pre-order bonuses on single player games increase piracy, especially exclusive store dlc. And regardless of whether or not you purchased the game, almost all the pirates will have ALL the items, period. Take Mass Effect 2 for instance, the Blackstorm armor was available from gamestop and the Inferno from other retailers, yet all the pirates had both pretty much right off the bat. Pirates don't want to be excluded from items/content when they can have them, so, they dl em anyway.

Also, pirates on the fence about whether or not to download a game or buy it will see pre-order "bonuses" as a nail in the proverbial coffin, meaning all aboard the torrent express. People who missed the deadline as well will have a higher chance to pirate.

In reality the thieves are having the cake and eating it too, and will end up with more than most any legitimate customer, which is why I hate pre-order dlc, it actually punishes, in a very small and insignificant way, a large section of their paying player base and pushes more and more people into the land of torrents.. sad but true..

Pre-order content, buy new bonuses, DLC in general, DRM, all the things that are either directly or indirectly supposed to curb piracy actually drive it, which is why it's funny when developers and publishers whine about thievery, as their policies are in a very large way contributing to the problem.

Modifié par Revan312, 06 février 2011 - 06:25 .

[Phoenixblight]

Revan312 wrote...

What's funny is pre-order dlc actually increases piracy in my experience.

I'm not gonna beat around the bush, I've pirated games before, blatantly at times, others to see what it was like before I purchased. And pre-order bonuses on single player games increase piracy, especially exclusive store dlc. And regardless of whether or not you purchased the game, almost all the pirates will have ALL the items, period. Take Mass Effect 2 for instance, the Blackstorm armor was available from gamestop and the Inferno from other retailers, yet all the pirates had both pretty much right off the bat. Pirates don't want to be excluded from items/content when they can have them, so, they dl em anyway.

Also, pirates on the fence about whether or not to download a game or buy it will see pre-order "bonuses" as a nail in the proverbial coffin, meaning all aboard the torrent express. People who missed the deadline as well will have a higher chance to pirate.

In reality the thieves are having the cake and eating it too, and will end up with more than most any legitimate customer, which is why I hate pre-order dlc, it actually punishes, in a very small and insignificant way, a large section of their paying player base and pushes more and more people into the land of torrents.. sad but true..

Pre-order content, buy new bonuses, DLC in general, DRM, all the things that are either directly or indirectly supposed to curb piracy actually drive it, which is why it's funny when developers and publishers whine about thievery, as their policies are in a very large way contributing to the problem.

There has been and always will be pirates, your point is moot whether DLC encourages piracy or not. Even with Piracy COD still sold 20 million+ and Dragon AGe, Mass Effect have also sold very well and they followed the DLC route. People with the tendency to pirate will always do so and then make their own logic for doing so; "I don't want to pay x dollars for this crappy y" , "I want to have everything without paying anything", etc.

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 06 février 2011 - 06:31 .

[AlanC9]

ForceXev wrote...
There's no way to know if it is only a minority of gamers who dislike the pre-order DLC, and I don't think it is appropriate to dismiss anyone who posts a complaint about it as a "whiner."  I do not complain often, and I am not a whiner.

That's a fair point. I should have just left it at "a tiny minority." Whether the complaints of that minority can be characterized as "whining" isn't relevant anyway.

The forums represent a very tiny percentage of gamers, and those of us who post on the forums probably read about games and game development on the web regularly.  So we would be more likely to understand Stanley's explanations about why pre-release DLC content is not content that was "removed" from the final game so they could use it for promotions and/or charge for that content later.  The wider audience of casual gamers who do not read the forums will have to make up their own minds about what they think of all the DLC without the benefit of Stanley's explanations.  How will they feel about it?  Again, there's no way to know for sure, but based on the threads we see here I believe a lot of people will perceive it very negatively.  Honestly, I don't know how anyone can look at that list of 20-some-odd promotional DLC items and not conclude that it is excessive.

So.. ...the forum is a tiny and unrepresentative minority of gamers, but you nevertheless feel comfortable making conclusions about how the majority of gamers are responding to DLC based on forum chatter from that tiny and unrepresentative minority of gamers. You're sure that's the position you want to take?

[Revan312]

Phoenixblight wrote...

There has been and always will be pirates, your point is moot whether DLC encourages piracy or not. Even with Piracy COD still sold 20 million+ and Dragon AGe, Mass Effect have also sold very well and they followed the DLC route. People with the tendency to pirate will always do so and then make their own logic for doing so; "I don't want to pay x dollars for this crappy y" , "I want to have everything without paying anything", etc.

I agree that there always will be pirates, but it's getting worse because of the policies of publishers and developers, at least those that are becoming so prevelent today.

And my point, which wasn't stated blatantly, was that I'm tired of game companies whining about pirates when they're expanding the base. None of these pre-order bonuses or buy new dlc options are a concern for torrent users, only actual customers, so at the end of the day, when the numbers come in and some game oriented website proclaims "X number of copies of DA2 were pirated" it will only fuel further restrictions on those same legitamate customers in an attempt to stop the downloading of their games, which will again be no concern to pirates as whatever drm will be cracked and whatever dlc will be uploaded and distributed by torrent users.

I just wanted to state my observation on the state of gaming within the world of torrents and the ridiculous policies being implemented, not just from EA/Bioware but from all devs and publishers..

[AlanC9]

Revan312 wrote...
Pre-order content, buy new bonuses, DLC in general, DRM, all the things that are either directly or indirectly supposed to curb piracy actually drive it, which is why it's funny when developers and publishers whine about thievery, as their policies are in a very large way contributing to the problem.

So you figure the publishers are just idiots?

[Revan312]

AlanC9 wrote...

So you figure the publishers are just idiots?

To a degree, yes...

[LoneFullmetal]

Morning808 wrote...

LoneFullmetal wrote...

Morning808 wrote...

NErWOnek wrote...

@LoneFullmetal: Some of us will just get them with our game.

Wait what? He stated that you won't get the DLC from the start of the game. How did you comment come to be?

I don't know which one of your responses are more confusing, or how to respond.

I was taking your side as simple as that.

Oh, ok.

[Mykel54]

I hope bioware will also give us an extra bag to carry all that dlc

[ToJKa1]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Seifz wrote...Sorry, but the party storage seems like something that was intentionally excluded from the main game so that it could be used as a selling point for DLC.  I have a very hard time believe that your QA process didn't return a huge number of "inventory management sucks in this game, we need a storage chest" long before the game went into its final phases.

Believe what you will.

That belief is quite common across the internet. It isn't doing any favors to your reputation, nor dissolving the fears of the "EA Corruption" or whatever you want to call it

As for the pre-release DLC, my goal is always to acquire as little of it as possible due to, as has been said, it's nonsensical for the character to have and is usually game-breakingly overpowered. Games nowadays are too easy already, i miss my controller bashing NES difficulty Well, there's always Megaman 10. **** you, Strike Man. **** you!

[Estelindis]

Thank you very much for the courteous and informative posts, Mr. Woo.

For the sake of adding my own two cents to the debate, I do not mind paying extra for DLC. While it's nice to get stuff for free, I see nothing unfair about paying for content that has taken Bioware however-many man-hours to produce. Accordingly, having enjoyed DA:O so much, I bought all its DLC.

What *is* important to me is quality. (I feel some people will always complain about paid DLC not being free - but, if the DLC is of excellent quality, the number will be only a tiny fraction of what it would be otherwise.) With the exception of the excellent Stone Prisoner (which was really in a different category to the rest of DA:O's DLC, being released on launch day), I honestly did not find that any DA:O story DLC met the standards of ME2's story DLC. ME2 story DLC added lots of gorgeous new areas, new party members, and custom music, with a high level of drama, amazing cutscenes, and in the case of the latest DLC a very well-written deepening of a past relationship. DA:O's story DLC consisted almost totally of reused areas - but I would not have minded that if the time it would have taken to create new areas had been used to give added value to other aspects of the DLC. I don't see any evidence that it was. The comparison between Witch Hunt and Lair of the Shadow Broker was particularly unforgiving. In WH, whose main selling point was resolving past issues with Morrigan, we only got a single conversation with our old friend / lover / what-have-you. In LotSB, nearly the entire adventure is spent with Liara, and there is enormous development of and progress in the relationship. I realise that LotSB sold for more points than WH did, but LotSB was longer as well as better. To my mind, WH should have been of higher quality given its short length.

I don't understand how such different experiences could have come about unless much less money was invested in making DA:O DLC than was invested in ME2's DLC. Accordingly, a part of me has rather cynically wondered if this was an experiment on Bioware's part - would DLC of a much lower production value, costing far less money to make, still sell just as much as DLC that was more expensive to make? Are fans just that desperate for a little something extra that we'll pay the price regardless of quality? With DLC being a relatively new market model, was it worth trying a few different approaches to see which yielded the best profit?

As you've said, Mr. Woo, it's up to us as customers to give feedback with our wallets, and honestly I failed in that regard by buying all DLC for both games simply because, based on past experience, I believed Bioware would only produce material of the highest quality. Now I have found otherwise, I will vote more appropriately with my purse, and hope that it's not too late to make my concerns heard. This means that I will continue to buy any and all ME2 story DLC, but I will wait to see what the reviewers and community say before I pick up any DA2 story DLC (excluding, of course, that which comes free with my Signature Edition of DA2 - but Shale was great, so I have high expectations of Sebastian). I hope this makes sense.

Modifié par Estelindis, 06 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[youngzman]

I feel that the DLC items are overpowered so I'm probably not using them on my first playthrough of each class. So after 3 playthroughs, I'll start using the items.Not a big fan of going female, but I've done it before and I see the different challenges & etc. it takes to be a woman in a 'man's world', so to speak [Sten,anyone?] It does add to the gameplay.

[Dudalizer]

Atakuma wrote...

PeterBazooka wrote...

Pre-order DLC is one of the worst things to happen to video games.

I hate free stuff!

How is it free if you have to pay for it?

[Walker White]

Revan312 wrote...

I agree that there always will be pirates, but it's getting worse because of the policies of publishers and developers, at least those that are becoming so prevelent today.

There is zero data to support that piracy is any worse now than it was in the early 2000s.  The primary factor that has caused piracy to take off was rapid distribution on the internet. 

In the old days when you had to personally know someone who could crack the DRM on your Commodore 64 game.

[Revan312]

Walker White wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

I agree that there always will be pirates, but it's getting worse because of the policies of publishers and developers, at least those that are becoming so prevelent today.

There is zero data to support that piracy is any worse now than it was in the early 2000s.  The primary factor that has caused piracy to take off was rapid distribution on the internet. 

In the old days when you had to personally know someone who could crack the DRM on your Commodore 64 game.

The reason I assume to a great extent is because I used to hang out in the pirate community quite frequently. I talked to torrent users a lot, torrent distributers and crackers. The policies ****** them off, get them angry and ultimately, in an act of defiance, they pirate/crack the games. Fight the power, that sort of thinking is prevelent and widespread in the pirate world.  Valve does a good job of keeping community support and keeps piracy down as a result because they don't create extremely restrictive drm or enact bias pre-order bonuses. They create the game and distribute it, that's about it, plus almost all of the incrimental dlc is free minus half life episodes..

The reasons I listed in the above post are all major talking points with pirates. And although I agree that many will find an excuse regardless, it's still driving more and more consumers into the world of torrents...The more restrictions the more pissed off people there is, the more pissed off people the more piracy, it's a pretty undeniable relationship.

Modifié par Revan312, 07 février 2011 - 05:53 .

[Mad-Max90]

wanna know what i did to avoid being angry at cost of dlc...I preordered the game at no extra cost within the date applied for it, and if you don't want it then by golly dont download it, but for the love of all that is holy stop complaining about free stuff

[AlanC9]

I can see a way to deny it. You lose people by driving them into the "pirate community," sure, but OTOH you may get that back by controlling more casual file trading. We've had people posting over in the DRM thread about how they don't want to go near pirate boards because they're scared of them.



I figure they think of DRM like the lock on my house. Any serious thief could beat that lock in a few minutes, but it keeps the idiot teenagers from waltzing in. Since the idiot teenagers are much more likely to be the problem than professionals,. it's good enough.



Does it work? Beats me. I don't know if I've been visited by either kind of intruder.



As for Valve, Steam is about as intrusive a DRM system as DA2 will have; it doesn't call back but it crams patches down your throat.



How did this turn into another DRM thread, anyway?

[Mad-Max90]

Revan312 wrote...

What's funny is pre-order dlc actually increases piracy in my experience.

I'm not gonna beat around the bush, I've pirated games before, blatantly at times, others to see what it was like before I purchased. And pre-order bonuses on single player games increase piracy, especially exclusive store dlc. And regardless of whether or not you purchased the game, almost all the pirates will have ALL the items, period. Take Mass Effect 2 for instance, the Blackstorm armor was available from gamestop and the Inferno from other retailers, yet all the pirates had both pretty much right off the bat. Pirates don't want to be excluded from items/content when they can have them, so, they dl em anyway.

Also, pirates on the fence about whether or not to download a game or buy it will see pre-order "bonuses" as a nail in the proverbial coffin, meaning all aboard the torrent express. People who missed the deadline as well will have a higher chance to pirate.

In reality the thieves are having the cake and eating it too, and will end up with more than most any legitimate customer, which is why I hate pre-order dlc, it actually punishes, in a very small and insignificant way, a large section of their paying player base and pushes more and more people into the land of torrents.. sad but true..

Pre-order content, buy new bonuses, DLC in general, DRM, all the things that are either directly or indirectly supposed to curb piracy actually drive it, which is why it's funny when developers and publishers whine about thievery, as their policies are in a very large way contributing to the problem.

This is why we can't have nice things, I would like to curse up and down throwing out all the words I know in three languages.  God i hate you people, by the way the dlc you mentioned, ITS F:devil:CKING FREE.  you ******

[Mad-Max90]

Dudalizer wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

PeterBazooka wrote...

Pre-order DLC is one of the worst things to happen to video games.

I hate free stuff!

How is it free if you have to pay for it?

simple, you're not paying for the dlc, you' paying for the game. the dlc is a gift to people who buy the disc god i hope you were trolling but i fear you were not 

[Revan312]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

This is why we can't have nice things, I would like to curse up and down throwing out all the words I know in three languages.  God i hate you people, by the way the dlc you mentioned, ITS F:devil:CKING FREE.  you ******

mmm, that reported feature looks great about now... keep it up!

AlanC9 wrote...

I can see a way to deny it. You lose
people by driving them into the "pirate community," sure, but OTOH you
may get that back by controlling more casual file trading. We've had
people posting over in the DRM thread about how they don't want to go
near pirate boards because they're scared of them.

I figure they
think of DRM like the lock on my house. Any serious thief could beat
that lock in a few minutes, but it keeps the idiot teenagers from
waltzing in. Since the idiot teenagers are much more likely to be the
problem than professionals,. it's good enough.

Does it work? Beats me. I don't know if I've been visited by either kind of intruder.

As
for Valve, Steam is about as intrusive a DRM system as DA2 will have;
it doesn't call back but it crams patches down your throat.

How did this turn into another DRM thread, anyway?

You can halt auto patch updates in the steam menu just fyi, as to the rest of the post, there are a lot of people that are scared of going onto piracy zones, but I still see increasing numbers of individuals entering the torrent community and asking newbie questions.  Now is that offset simply by the sheer number of people entering gaming?  Not sure, and you may be right, I'm simply giving my observation on the motivations and excuses of pirates..

Without concrete info it's all assumptionary, but it sure feels like piracy is growing in part due to the increase in restrictive measures being implemented.
And with that I'm done talking about DRM/DLC, I swear!

Modifié par Revan312, 07 février 2011 - 06:24 .

[AlanC9]

I'll take your word for it on updates. Steam's unstable on my rig -- I can authorize games with a new installation, but Steam itself crashes out on startup every time. No biggie, since Steam doesn't do anything useful except authorizations anyway.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The s***load of pre-order items...they are evil. They are narm. Will never use them.



Hate the very concept.

[Vena_86]

Falls Edge wrote...

If by 'overwhelmed' you mean pissed off, yes.