450 réponses à ce sujet

[Realranger55]

Ziggeh wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...
The question is, is it really good practice to do things like  add dlc, then taunt the people who don't feel like paying for it?

It taunted you by offering you a choice. Shops: shelf after shelf of taunts.

Realranger55 wrote...
I really wanted............ payed for it.

Preeeeetty much.

I chose to pay for the game, got it home, went to my party camp which is obviously part of that game and there is a dude standing there with an exclamation point over his head and will only finish his conversation after you visit the bioware page and purchase some premium content. Yah I'd say thats taunting. 
Yah i payed for it because I'm a big fan of the series, but that moment felt pretty cheap to me. Also, I go to shops, they don't generally show up in the middle of something that I have already purchased. 

[FurousJoe]

Why do people pick on DA2 like this? Have people already forgotten DAO? That game had like twice or triple the number of pre-order bonuses. Like every single different retailer had their own preorder bonus...

[Falls Edge]

Still, I think this thread taught me something about checking out information before I post.

That said I'm not backing down on the sebastion thing, I'll just watch an lp, this way the only difference is that I'm watching someone else make the same choices I would've made anyway, and not have to pay a dime.

[Realranger55]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...
Right, its up to the consumer to purchase the dlc. Remember Levi Dryden, hangin out in your party camp? I really wanted to finish that conversation with him, so I sucked it up and payed for it. 
The question is, is it really good practice to do things like  add dlc, then taunt the people who don't feel like paying for it? If you are going to stick something in the game, might as well make it available to everyone at release.

And any company that puts ads on television or on the radio might as well give you free stuff, right? you call it taunting, I call it yet another incentive to purchase the DLC. He was an optional conversation to get an optional quest, just like some of the quest zones in Lord of the Rings Online require payment to unlock. If I want to complete those quests, I'll choose to pay for them. If I don't need to do them that badly, I'll think twice. If I don't want them, I won't pay for them at all. As always, it is my choice.

If you are ok with ads showing up in video games, thats your perogative. I myself am quite turned off by it, if thats the way the industry is headed then so be it, but I am finding this industry less and less appealing because of practices like it. 
Also comparing something to everything else in life isn't really a great way to argue. Tv and radio? Different mediums and always have been. 

Modifié par Realranger55, 04 février 2011 - 05:19 .

[Phoenixblight]

Realranger55 wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...
The question is, is it really good practice to do things like  add dlc, then taunt the people who don't feel like paying for it?

It taunted you by offering you a choice. Shops: shelf after shelf of taunts.

Realranger55 wrote...
I really wanted............ payed for it.

Preeeeetty much.

I chose to pay for the game, got it home, went to my party camp which is obviously part of that game and there is a dude standing there with an exclamation point over his head and will only finish his conversation after you visit the bioware page and purchase some premium content. Yah I'd say thats taunting. 
Yah i payed for it because I'm a big fan of the series, but that moment felt pretty cheap to me. Also, I go to shops, they don't generally show up in the middle of something that I have already purchased. 

Damn You Exclamation mark for taunting me. Damn You to hell!!

[Ziggeh]

Warhammer Online endless trial promotion, WHY DO YOU TAUNT ME SO.

[TJPags]

Falls Edge wrote...

I am indeed, as half the posters instantly disagreed with me.

I didn't come across clearly because I reacted poorly to perceived shadows that weren't there.

Needless to say it isn't about the preorders at all, it's about sebastion, which I thought was seperate from the pre-order package and that everyone had to pay up 7 bucks to get him.

I'm assuming I'm wrong here?


I'm kind of glad I got pounced on like this, it kind of cleared some things up for me, though I should've investigated more before saying anything.

Edit: Also, I am pissed off that I don't get as much stuff as people who pre-order simply because I don't want to spend that much until I'm sure that it's actually a good game, you can't preorder after a game is released to my knowledge, though I might be wrong about that.

Well, I think the sebastian issue is tied in with pre-order.

Stanley Woo explained why it can't be on the disc.  Now, I believe him because, well, he works on this game, and I don't.  Also, he works in the industry, and I don't.   And I doubt he'd tell us a flat out lie, since I'm sure there are people here who would be able to call him out on it.

So, that being true, Sebastian was developd after the disc content was locked.  But it was ready for release on day 1.  So, they offered a bonus for people who pre-order.  You get him for free.  If you don't pre-order, you can still have him, you just have to pay $7.  That's the pre-order bonus that's been discussed to death, and which I feel is fine. 

Should he - or Shale, or Soldier's Peak, or any other DLC - have been finished in time to be on the disc rather than DLC?  Well, I don't know, maybe it should.  But I do understand that there is a finite amount of time before something needs to be "finished" and ready for release, and that there is only so much manpower, and that choosing to finish one thing means another may not be finished.  I'd assume it comes down to, what is necessary for the game, and what isn't.  A singer may WANT to add two more songs to a CD, but they haven't been recorded yet, because they were working on the 10 they like the most.  So those 2 don't make it on the CD - maybe they go on the next one, or maybe on a special edition.

[mr_luga]

Falls Edge wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...
True, it's just not how they used to do it.

We also used to have to cut forever any content that was nearly ready, or just about ready for prime time but didn't meet quality standard. You know a lot of that DLC content you see? You wouldn't have seen it at all back then.

We also used ahve to wait 6-8 months for an expansion to be developed. nowadays, in 8 months, no one remembers who you were and no one's playing your game anymore. DLC could be considered tiny micro-expansions that come out more often, keeping people interested in your game.

You know what else we used to do? Handwrite letters and wait a few weeks if we wanted to talk to someone in another country. Or dial them up on a rotary phone. You'll note that's changed as well. I used to be able to buy shoes for $15, and we wore onions on our belts, because that was the style at the time.

Using "that's not how they used to do it" as a reason for disliking something is a little silly, and more than a little curmudgeonly. I should know. I'm a curmudgeon.

Not the problem, Sebastions already been designed. No one is whining about the continous stream of dlc, just the dlc that's finished before the actual game comes out, I don't even care about the armor or weapons, or mirror.

This.

I have a hard time beliving you coudnt fit a sword or something like that months before the game comes out -.-

[AlanC9]

Falls Edge wrote...

Needless to say it isn't about the preorders at all, it's about sebastion, which I thought was seperate from the pre-order package and that everyone had to pay up 7 bucks to get him.

I'm assuming I'm wrong here?

Not quite. He's part of the Signature Edition content. You don't get him with a regular pre-order.

So if you want him now... yep, $7.

[Falls Edge]

Oh, okay thanks for posting that.

I'll just watch an lp for Sebastion.

Also, I want to make an apology to Marshellick on the comment about him not understanding how preorders work, that back-fired rather hilariously.

[Kileyan]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...
True, it's just not how they used to do it.

We also used to have to cut forever any content that was nearly ready, or just about ready for prime time but didn't meet quality standard. You know a lot of that DLC content you see? You wouldn't have seen it at all back then.

We also used ahve to wait 6-8 months for an expansion to be developed. nowadays, in 8 months, no one remembers who you were and no one's playing your game anymore. DLC could be considered tiny micro-expansions that come out more often, keeping people interested in your game.

First of all, way back when, your guys used to post a fix to bugs on release day within several hours. I can remember your guys being up at 4am, posting untested fixes to their own ftps until they got to work. Today bug fixes take months, months which coincide with DLC releases. I know it isn't a conspiracy, it has to do with certification with consoles, that doesn't make  your patch responses a good thing or timely.


I mostly wanted to respond to your comment about no one even knows who you are if you don't release DLC constantly. I find that hard to believe. Although only anecdotal, I don't know a single gamer that wouldn't rather have a hefty well thought out expansion, over the 20 minute DLC stuff, that often takes more time to download and aunthenticate than is does to play.

Don't discount my input because I criticize, but I think you are really wrong, I think people would freak out over an old school lenghty expansion and be fine without DLC.

[Phoenixblight]

mr_luga wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...
True, it's just not how they used to do it.

We also used to have to cut forever any content that was nearly ready, or just about ready for prime time but didn't meet quality standard. You know a lot of that DLC content you see? You wouldn't have seen it at all back then.

We also used ahve to wait 6-8 months for an expansion to be developed. nowadays, in 8 months, no one remembers who you were and no one's playing your game anymore. DLC could be considered tiny micro-expansions that come out more often, keeping people interested in your game.

You know what else we used to do? Handwrite letters and wait a few weeks if we wanted to talk to someone in another country. Or dial them up on a rotary phone. You'll note that's changed as well. I used to be able to buy shoes for $15, and we wore onions on our belts, because that was the style at the time.

Using "that's not how they used to do it" as a reason for disliking something is a little silly, and more than a little curmudgeonly. I should know. I'm a curmudgeon.

Not the problem, Sebastions already been designed. No one is whining about the continous stream of dlc, just the dlc that's finished before the actual game comes out, I don't even care about the armor or weapons, or mirror.

This.

I have a hard time beliving you coudnt fit a sword or something like that months before the game comes out -.-

You're missing the point on those items. They are there to buy the game original, preorder, etc with little to no effort other than a few clicks. 

[mr_luga]

My biggest issue isnt really DLC, it's that it's something you pay for, day 1. I dont like that at all, if it's something coming out a month later, something new they've been working on It would be easier to swallow, though considering the tough prices on these DLC's I rarely ever buy them becouse I can tell when im being milkd from EA's hands grasping at my teats

EDIT: To the above, that I still have to work aorund so much to get it is just sad in my opinion, and if you're okay with that, that's your choice, but I dont think we should settle for something if we think we deserve a bit more.  Granted there are good and bad ways of doing this.

I prefer to more calmy show my distaste to their choice, and avoid getting a hold of it to show I got no interest.

I feel like, there are Sooo many hoops to jump through just to get things for your games as of late, it's annoying, it's become really bad with EA games, you have to buy from that place, do this, and sign up for that, and join that, tweet blah and blah blah.

It's a nice convenient exuse to put the "Your choice" in there since you can easily get a clear concience with it  I wonder if people in wars did the same thing "Run across the minefield to freedom, or get shot here, your choice! Not my fault if you die brah!"

Modifié par mr_luga, 04 février 2011 - 05:31 .

[Vaelidor]

I want to start off saying that first of all I have no problems with release day DLC or even preorder exclusive DLC. If you want it, put down $5, pay for the game when it's released. End of story. The ONLY issue I have in regards to DLC is retailer specific exclusive DLC as it makes things very difficult (and insanely expensive) to ever acquire 100% of the items. Just my two cents.

[Stanley Woo]

mr_luga wrote...
I have a hard time beliving you coudnt fit a sword or something like that months before the game comes out -.-

Okay, smart guy. Let's play it your way. So we put those items into the game. now we need some small DLC items that can be easily made up and designed and tested for DLC incentives, so we do that. And... people ask why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small.

Okay, le'ts play it their way. So we put those items into the game. Now we need some new small DLC items that can be easily made up and designed and tested for DLC incentives so we do that. And... people ask why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small.

Okay, le'ts play it their way. So we put those items into the
game. Now we need some new small DLC items that can be easily made up and
designed and tested for DLC incentives so we do that. And... people ask why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small. So you see a pattern here yet?

Okay, le'ts play it their way. So we put those items into the
game. Now we need some new small DLC items that can be easily made up and
designed and tested for DLC incentives so we do that. And... people ask
why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small. Somewhere along the way, you'll have to accept that some of our work will have to go towards these little tiny DLC incentives.

[Phoenixblight]

Vaelidor wrote...

I want to start off saying that first of all I have no problems with release day DLC or even preorder exclusive DLC. If you want it, put down $5, pay for the game when it's released. End of story. The ONLY issue I have in regards to DLC is retailer specific exclusive DLC as it makes things very difficult (and insanely expensive) to ever acquire 100% of the items. Just my two cents.

Thats not the case here with DA2 only retailer specific item is buying the game via EA store. WIth ME2 and DAO sure but those were eventually put up as DLC later. 

[Realranger55]

Why do we need dlc incentives?

[ThatDancingTurian]

I love DLC. Especially free DLC. It's -free-, where's the problem?



What I don't love is retailer exclusives. I'm buying the same game for the same price, I should get the same stuff. And since I have no desire or financial ability to buy the game a second time just for a single DLC item, I end up feeling like I missed out. You should be able to purchase retailer exclusive pre-order items in the online store at some point after pre-order is no longer available.

[marshalleck]

Falls Edge wrote...

Also, I want to make an apology to Marshellick on the comment about him not understanding how preorders work, that back-fired rather hilariously.

Appreciated, but no apology necessary. No harm done, it's just another day on the internet. 

[mr_luga]

Stanley Woo wrote...

mr_luga wrote...
I have a hard time beliving you coudnt fit a sword or something like that months before the game comes out -.-

Okay, smart guy. Let's play it your way. So we put those items into the game. now we need some small DLC items that can be easily made up and designed and tested for DLC incentives, so we do that. And... people ask why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small.

Okay, le'ts play it their way. So we put those items into the game. Now we need some new small DLC items that can be easily made up and designed and tested for DLC incentives so we do that. And... people ask why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small.

Okay, le'ts play it their way. So we put those items into the
game. Now we need some new small DLC items that can be easily made up and
designed and tested for DLC incentives so we do that. And... people ask why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small. So you see a pattern here yet?

Okay, le'ts play it their way. So we put those items into the
game. Now we need some new small DLC items that can be easily made up and
designed and tested for DLC incentives so we do that. And... people ask
why aren't those items in the base game, since they're so small. Somewhere along the way, you'll have to accept that some of our work will have to go towards these little tiny DLC incentives.

Err.. How about at one point you just.. Stop making **** and just say "The game is done" <.<; Sounds like you guys need to chill  

It's a bit unnvering you guys think you feel you need to toss so much fluff around to get people to buy your games, have some faith, you're bioware

[Purple People Eater]

I dont think there should be such a focus on DLC until after a game is released. When I see all this pre-order, retailer specific pre-launch DLC, it just comes off as...unnecessary.

[Stanley Woo]

Kileyan wrote...
I mostly wanted to respond to your comment about no one even knows who you are if you don't release DLC constantly. I find that hard to believe. Although only anecdotal, I don't know a single gamer that wouldn't rather have a hefty well thought out expansion, over the 20 minute DLC stuff, that often takes more time to download and aunthenticate than is does to play.

Don't discount my input because I criticize, but I think you are really wrong, I think people would freak out over an old school lenghty expansion and be fine without DLC.

I would never discount an opinion that merely disagrees with me, if that opinion is well presented, which yours is. I would counter with the sheer popularity of games today and just how many games are available for purchase between three giant consoles, a few different mobile markets, a couple of handhelds, online casual, social network games, platforms like Steam, GOG, and other digital distribution platforms. In 6 months without any content being released, even MMOs get a little stale.

Sure, some people prefer the less frequent, big expansion content model, but I'm not sure that's really an option anymore with the state of the industry as it is. there's a reason old-school is "old": because things have changed rather significantly over the last 10 years. Digital communication and storage has grown exponentially, and so has broadband internet in the home and console connectivity. In order to hold that audience, you need something to keep them interested in your game. For the most part, that something is frequent DLC, in my opinion.

[Purple People Eater]

Yes but you dont need DLC for the day the game comes out. The damn game is new for Gods sake.

[Falls Edge]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...
I'm just saying that I don't see the point in the dlc if it could be put in everyones game before the game comes out.

When it comes to games development, the game has to be finished at some point long before it appears on store shelves. The content on that disc has to be finalized and the bejeebers has to be tested out of it. Nothing can change on that disc or else a lot of work has to be re-done to get it ready for things like final stage testing, certification and submission.

During this point of "nothing can change on the disc," people who are twiddling their thumbs otherwise can be working on things like DLC and day 1 patches, whatever the studio decides to do. Maybe both, who knows what they have time and manpower for? It's at this time that DLC can be made, because even after all the above is done, the game has to be manufactured and distributed to all the retailers. You're looking at anywhere from a few weeks to a couple of months where nothing on that disc can be modified.

The dlc for sebastion is completed right now, why won't they put it into the game?

Is it? I suppose you would know better than the folks actually working on our game and our DLC content, wouldn't you? downloadable content is called downloadable content because it doesn't have to appear on that disc whose contents cannot be altered. It just has to be available for download (hence "downloadable content") when the game is released. such content, because it doesn't have to appear on the disc, whose contents can't be touched, also doesn't have to go through as much time in certification and submission.

I just don't understand the concept of having to pay extra for extra content before a game is out that has been completed and ready to go already.

Nor does it sound like you're trying to understand, but hopefully, my explanations can open up this mysterious world of videogame development for you a little. it's an esoteric process, and few people realyl understand it until and unless they're a part of it. I certainly wouldn't have known if I didn't start working here.

Got it, they locked themselves out before they had finished it, so they're releasing it as extra content because of a couple of reasons you mentioned.

As I don't have to pay for it, but can still actually observe it on an Lp anywhere on youtube, I'll play the game without the dlc content then watch it for free.

Thank you and sorry for misunderstanding the  teams processes I understand that you have a dead-line that's very short compared to the first game.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 04 février 2011 - 05:39 .

[BioTick]

Falls Edge wrote...

Edit: Also, I am pissed off that I don't get as much stuff as people who pre-order simply because I don't want to spend that much until I'm sure that it's actually a good game, you can't preorder after a game is released to my knowledge, though I might be wrong about that.

Dude. This is BioWare we're talking about here.

Knights of the Old Republic?   Metacritic score: 93%
Jade Empire?   Metacritic score: 89%
Mass Effect?   Metacritic score: 91%
Mass Effect 2?   Metacritic score: 96%
Dragon Age Origins?   Metacritic score: 91%

You notice a a pattern emerging here? You see some sort of general trend shaping up?
This isn't about faith. It's just common sense.
This isn't a gamble. It's an investment.

And I'm sorry you didn't pre-order before January 11th too.