450 réponses à ce sujet

[Blastback]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Kileyan wrote...
I mostly wanted to respond to your comment about no one even knows who you are if you don't release DLC constantly. I find that hard to believe. Although only anecdotal, I don't know a single gamer that wouldn't rather have a hefty well thought out expansion, over the 20 minute DLC stuff, that often takes more time to download and aunthenticate than is does to play.

Don't discount my input because I criticize, but I think you are really wrong, I think people would freak out over an old school lenghty expansion and be fine without DLC.

I would never discount an opinion that merely disagrees with me, if that opinion is well presented, which yours is. I would counter with the sheer popularity of games today and just how many games are available for purchase between three giant consoles, a few different mobile markets, a couple of handhelds, online casual, social network games, platforms like Steam, GOG, and other digital distribution platforms. In 6 months without any content being released, even MMOs get a little stale.

Sure, some people prefer the less frequent, big expansion content model, but I'm not sure that's really an option anymore with the state of the industry as it is. there's a reason old-school is "old": because things have changed rather significantly over the last 10 years. Digital communication and storage has grown exponentially, and so has broadband internet in the home and console connectivity. In order to hold that audience, you need something to keep them interested in your game. For the most part, that something is frequent DLC, in my opinion.

The problem that I have with DLC, at least with Bioware style RPG's is that it comes up feeling a little incomplete compared to the old expansion pack.  I'm mainly focusing on character interaction here.  Compare Throne of Bhaal to all of ME2's DLC combined.  In Throne of Bhaal, all of your companions had new dialogues and interactions.  It felt like they were really there.  Now in the ME2 DLC, your companions say virtually nothing.  The dialoge is limited to just a handful of characters, such as Liara, Dr. Archer, Kasumi, etc.  Dragon Age's DLC was a bit better, but there were only a couple of adventures with your old companions, while the rest were created soley for the DLC. 

I liked the general approach with Origins, where you had both DLC and an expansion, I just never liked having the last several DLC packs be stand alone adventures instead of being intigrated into the main game.

[SandyWB]

And from that the devs have said, they have learned their lesson when it comes to bigger DLC-packs. They will focus on the main character's story instead of branching out with the focus on new characters and taking place after the main story. I believe we will be seeing more 'Lair of the Shadow Broker, Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar, The Stone Prisoner'-type DLC and less like Leliana's Song, Darkspawn Chronicles, Witch Hunt and Golems of Amgarrak.

I believe they have the right idea, especially since they've used Lair of the Shadow Broker as an example. Anyone who has played it knows how great it is.

[brownybrown]

Stanley, you should have al ittle more faith in your fans! People who buy dragon age love it and will wait for bigger, longer DLC/expansion packs.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

Falls Edge wrote...

If by 'overwhelmed' you mean pissed off, yes.

[Huntress]

I don't mind DLC's



What really ****** me off is that some of them won't include the Main character, or are so short you want to /wrist ... I hope DA2 doesn't have the US option again or I am done with DA. Wishing we knew before hand if DA2 has the US option but, lets pray and wait ...

[mr_luga]

I find it best to wait buying DLC's until ultimate editions come out, becouse then all the DLC's put together, acually creates a siginificant amount. Playing DLC the day it comes out is just a tease, After an hour you're done and it hurts knowing what kind of money you spent for that little time.

[Elsariel]

Nope, not overwhelmed. Excited.

[Purple People Eater]

mr_luga wrote...

I find it best to wait buying DLC's until ultimate editions come out, becouse then all the DLC's put together, acually creates a siginificant amount. Playing DLC the day it comes out is just a tease, After an hour you're done and it hurts knowing what kind of money you spent for that little time.

Exactly. I waited until the ultimate edition came out to play the DLC. Though I honestly wish I had bought Wardens Keep just for that stupid chest, which should have been in your camp to begin with but...

[Rooksarii]

I for one don't have a huge problem with all the incentivizing in the form of items/DLC, via pre-order or through things like Dragon Age Legends. It at the very least gives those consumers who were already intent on getting the game that extra oomph to pre-order, check out other areas of the developer/publisher's sites or to even play other games from said developers and publishers. I missed my shot for a Signature Edition via pre-order, and I'll admit I am looking into ways or means to get one (a friend may give me their pre-order spot, or the local GameStop guys may have an extra copy after the 48 hour window is up, etc). But if I can't somehow get it, the items lost and the lack of extra DLC are not going to kill the core game for me. Just a nice little intangible bauble for the larger intangible (but enjoyable) baubles we call games!



It's far better to have this incentivized marketing and advertising than just empty advertising in my book. Even if it is an item that won't get much mileage in the game, at least the developers made a little "thank you" to go along with the-- let’s face it-- necessary marketing that today's marketplace all but demands. Granted, games should stand on their own two legs and not the inherent hype built around them, but I don't have any such fears for Bioware. They've only done well in my opinion based off the titles I have played.

[FDrage]

The problem I have with DLCs and why I prefer expansion packs over DLC is the fact the DLCs (not talking about the digitial download version of Awakening or equipment pack) tend to be short. That leaves less space for story and character interaction (on a per DLC basis) at least in principle. They tend to feel more like side missions / quests then an extension of the game in the same way an expansion does.

Yes you can deliver (in principle) these DLCs in a shorter interval then an expansion. However most of the DLC also comes out quite a bit after the game has been released (e.g. of the course of a year). This means that to some degree one comes back to the game for the DLCs to just play the DLCs (ok not everyone does) in which case it is a short adventure and people might feel, rightly so, disappointed about the length of something they might have extra come back for. IN contrast to an expansion where one might easily wait 1-1.5 years for it but once it is there you also spend a lot more time with it before it is finished instead of coming back to the game every couple of month for a new adventure.

On the other hand get the same DLC as part of a regular play through and the shortness of it (which will always be there) feels completely different.

Overlord and LotSB was nice when I first got it, but I still wondered afterwards that it was already over and having multiple character to play them again doesn't help as you play the same 2-3h e.g. 5 times (total random amount) which doesn't help make them feel longer but more like repeat repeat repeat and might overall contribute to the "shortness" impression.
Use the same DLC as part of a regular playthrough (yes it then just becomes a side mission, albeit a good one) and the "shortness" feeling isn't really there anymore as it nicely integrates with the main game. Recently did a new play through of ME2 which included all the 3 story DLCs and I enjoyed them quite a bit more and they also made more "sense" to me.
The same thing happened when I played Fallout 3. I only bough the game way after it came out at at time when 4 of the 5 DLCs were already out. Therefore I played Operation Anchorhead, The Pitt etc. as part of my normal playthrough and I enjoyed them immensely and the made my game experience that much better. But looking back at them and think about having to wait for them after I'd finished my play through I can't shake the feeling that I would have felt slightly disappointed at their length regardless of how much I overall enjoyed them.

To some degree it gets worth with DLCs that don't integrate into the main game (Golems, Leliana's Song, alternate reality DLC) or into the main story line (at least Witch Hunt in some way did that) as they appear way after the game (so you have to wait) and you would always have to play them as a separate entity. At least with Witch Hunt one can pretend to play it as a continuations of ones normal game. Wardens Keep was better in that case as it was part of any normal play through (a side mission) but would still have felt short and not quite up there if you would have had to wait for several month to be able to play it.

I don't mind DLCs in principle I enjoyed the ones I plated mostly (some exceptions so) but I still can't shake the feeling that from my perspective as a gamer they can never be as rounded and as nice an as "full filling" as an expansion pack, which isn't just a short story but a nice short book.

Modifié par FDrage, 04 février 2011 - 03:16 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

I can't think of a single DLC Bioware has released that can be completed in 20 minutes and manage to see all the content. Maybe Zaeed? Which was free...?

Oh, and personally, I *like* having DLC advertised in-game. I'd rather not have to worry about keeping up in forums to realized a new DLC has come out. I visit the BioWare forums because BioWare is awesome and I have many of their games. But what about say, TFU2? That game was a totally short disappointment and since LA isn't actively releasing anything worthwhile for the foreseeable future and they don't interact with their forums, I find myself visiting their website infrequently despite my love for Star Wars. If I loaded up the game and it said "Hey, there's a new DLC available!" I'd be happy because I wouldn't have checked their website otherwise.

A banner advertisement as BioWare does is a good way of doing things, but I find it more genuine and realistic if it's presented in-game in a place where we are likely to see it.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 04 février 2011 - 03:51 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

my entitlement sense is tingling



too much complaint over some free stuff

[Eurypterid]

brownybrown wrote...

Stanley, you should have al ittle more faith in your fans! People who buy dragon age love it and will wait for bigger, longer DLC/expansion packs.

Yes, but you're talking about hardcore fans. And that's definitely not the majority of buyers for their games. The great bulk of game players and buyers will move on to something else unless their interest is kept up with fresh content, as Stanley suggested.

[Wulfram]

So long as people are prepared to pay inflated prices for substandard products like DA:O's DLC, companies will be happy to put it out for them. If you don't want it, don't buy it.

[Cuthlan]

Blastback wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Kileyan wrote...
I mostly wanted to respond to your comment about no one even knows who you are if you don't release DLC constantly. I find that hard to believe. Although only anecdotal, I don't know a single gamer that wouldn't rather have a hefty well thought out expansion, over the 20 minute DLC stuff, that often takes more time to download and aunthenticate than is does to play.

Don't discount my input because I criticize, but I think you are really wrong, I think people would freak out over an old school lenghty expansion and be fine without DLC.

I would never discount an opinion that merely disagrees with me, if that opinion is well presented, which yours is. I would counter with the sheer popularity of games today and just how many games are available for purchase between three giant consoles, a few different mobile markets, a couple of handhelds, online casual, social network games, platforms like Steam, GOG, and other digital distribution platforms. In 6 months without any content being released, even MMOs get a little stale.

Sure, some people prefer the less frequent, big expansion content model, but I'm not sure that's really an option anymore with the state of the industry as it is. there's a reason old-school is "old": because things have changed rather significantly over the last 10 years. Digital communication and storage has grown exponentially, and so has broadband internet in the home and console connectivity. In order to hold that audience, you need something to keep them interested in your game. For the most part, that something is frequent DLC, in my opinion.

The problem that I have with DLC, at least with Bioware style RPG's is that it comes up feeling a little incomplete compared to the old expansion pack.  I'm mainly focusing on character interaction here.  Compare Throne of Bhaal to all of ME2's DLC combined.  In Throne of Bhaal, all of your companions had new dialogues and interactions.  It felt like they were really there.  Now in the ME2 DLC, your companions say virtually nothing.  The dialoge is limited to just a handful of characters, such as Liara, Dr. Archer, Kasumi, etc.  Dragon Age's DLC was a bit better, but there were only a couple of adventures with your old companions, while the rest were created soley for the DLC. 

I liked the general approach with Origins, where you had both DLC and an expansion, I just never liked having the last several DLC packs be stand alone adventures instead of being intigrated into the main game.

Throne of Bhaal was essentially Baldur's Gate 3 that got crammed into an expansion pack. It was supposed to be a sequel. Hard to compare that to DLC.

Other expansion packs fit right in with the DLC, though. Look at Tales of the Sword Coast. It was basically just two new quest line areas added to the game. Very similar to the DLC's for Origins. Yes, the level cap was raised by TOSC (and the final encounter made more difficult to counter that), but it was needed. Origins didn't need a level cap increase. Otherwise you could slap Warden's Keep and The Stone Prisoner together and call them an expansion pack by that standard.

The method of delivery has changed, but the end result isn't really different.

[coomber]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

Extra goodies that could have easily been put into the game before launch.

You wont need them to beat the game, if it bothers you so much then you should've gotten the pre-order. But if you want to whine about it then you found the perfect place.

If he wanted to come across obnoxious people he hit the nail on the head twice, judging from what you have written.

Not everyone knew about the pre-order bonus before the deadline had been and gone. But because you did, that makes it okay. Well done you.

[Lord Gremlin]

I'm a bit confused, yes. Just to be sure I'm buying signature edition, redeeming the codes and then carefully searching PS store for DA2 DLC and buying them all... Yes, that's the plan. Oh, and that Isaak armor, I've bought Dead Space 2, still haven't played it due to lack of time, but that one I won't forget and find some time before March.

There's only one game I'm as eager to get my hands on as DA2 and that's Killzone 3. Right now I only need time... Time I totally lack and time I totally need to finish all those games I still haven't completed yet.

[Lord Gremlin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I would never discount an opinion that merely disagrees with me, if that opinion is well presented, which yours is. I would counter with the sheer popularity of games today and just how many games are available for purchase between three giant consoles, a few different mobile markets, a couple of handhelds, online casual, social network games, platforms like Steam, GOG, and other digital distribution platforms. In 6 months without any content being released, even MMOs get a little stale.

Hm, there's install size problem on consoles with such DLC attitude. DAO on PS3 for example have a large install to begin with, and with DLC... The amount of HDD space it occupies on my PS3's HDD is just plain huge, and since it's DAO I'm hesitant to delete it.
In other words - in 6 months with constant flow of DLC install size increases to the point of ridiculousness. Sometimes I think that you could as well put Dragon Age on PS Store , basically same install size..

Might I ask if launch pieces of DLC for DA2 will eat about 500 mb each?

[HTTP 404]

it is what it is. I would be more pissed if it was bonus game content versus items. It would anger me if I missed out on a character and mission. but a sword and shield? thats not nearly a big enough deal. But we all need to get used to it EA and other publishers are looking at DLCs as a good source of revenue so expect pre-order dlcs to be the norm and not a bonus

[1varangian]

I find all the launch date DLC and excessively complicated and aggressive marketing really, really annoying.



Just box the #&%n game and put it on the shelf. If it's good it will sell without confusing tricks. Cutting content just to release it as a separate DLC is very questionable.

[Dr_Los]

HTTP 404 wrote...

it is what it is. I would be more pissed if it was bonus game content versus items. It would anger me if I missed out on a character and mission. but a sword and shield? thats not nearly a big enough deal.

Sebastian - who is a party companion and has his own story/mission - costs US$7.00, if you didn't preorder the Signature Edition.

Just so you know.

[Phoenixblight]

1varangian wrote...

I find all the launch date DLC and excessively complicated and aggressive marketing really, really annoying.

Just box the #&%n game and put it on the shelf. If it's good it will sell without confusing tricks. Cutting content just to release it as a separate DLC is very questionable.

Yes because you have proof that the actual content was cut.  Its all free and its not complicating. You preorder it and you get all the items especially if you preorder before Jan 11th. WHat DLC is hard to get in this case? If you believe a few clicks or walking to a store putting 5$ down is too complicating, someone needs to go back to school me thinks. 

[Stanley Woo]

Kinghoza wrote...
I'm "ok" if there's some minor items you could get when you pre-order, but cutting out a companion is just stupid - as if they want to encourage pirating.

We "cut Sebastian from the main game" the same way the quarter pounder burger from Mcdonald's "cut" the extra patty and cheese from the double quarter pounder with cheese, which is to say, not at all. This is also the same way car manufacturers "cut" power windows, chrome trim, DVD players, all wheel drive, satellite radio, and a couple of engine V's from their basic car models, which is to say, not at all.

Your personal preferences and tolerances do not dictate the desires of an entire market or the business decisions of game developers. Individual players are not going to agree with everything we do, and that's fine. this is taken into account during the decision-making process. We hope you'll come along for the ride, but if you choose not to, then maybe our next project will be more to your liking or maybe you'll give it a try later after reading reviews, or once your curiosity is piqued. Use of the "piracy" argument is specious and anecdotal, not to mention frowned upon in this community. Thank you.

[HTTP 404]

Dr_Los wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

it is what it is. I would be more pissed if it was bonus game content versus items. It would anger me if I missed out on a character and mission. but a sword and shield? thats not nearly a big enough deal.

Sebastian - who is a party companion and has his own story/mission - costs US$7.00, if you didn't preorder the Signature Edition.

Just so you know.

exactly, luckily I pre-ordered but if they had different characters and mission for different retailers, well that would really grind my gears.

[spam image removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 04 février 2011 - 05:44 .