93 réponses à ce sujet

[Schneidend]

@Slayer: Harbinger doesn't even bother having a conversation with you. Sovereign did. Harbinger just tells you how pathetic you are as he repeatedly sets you on fire with biotics (somehow...).



As to the OP, I thought the Collectors were fine design wise. The way their heads are isn't really a rip-off of Independence Day or Aliens at all. They managed to do the elongated head thing in a different way. I also really like the image of the Collectors descending on their wings to fight you.

[Bullets McDeath]

OP, your thread thread title is messed up your thread title.



I didn't love them, though. They were a little boring. I was never once scared of Harbinger. In fact, with Adrenaline Rush, half the time he was dead before he could finish taking over a body. He's definitely a joke, as villains go.



The Collectors, though... they were interesting the first time through the game. They were very unknowable. The idea of this mysterious race with a hidden homeworld and tons of super tech, trading with slavers and abducting people for their genetics... yeah, scary stuff. Then it turns out they are mindless drones with no agenda of their own. The only thing that saves that from being completely lame is the fact that they are repurposed Protheans.

[bjdbwea]

I do not think that the design of the collectors is boring. The designers for the different alien races in the Mass Effect universe did a great job.

The collectors are boring as a main enemy because there's never any interaction between them (or their leader) and Shepard. They are never more than nameless cannon fodder. The few sentences their leader keeps repeating are in no way a proper substitute for actual interaction. No comparison to ME 1 and its great scenes in which Shepard could talk to Saren as well as Sovereign.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 04 février 2011 - 05:52 .

[Rune-Chan]

The fact that you said:

mangeo wrote...

BioWare used that lazy "alien fungus growing all over the walls"when you get inside the Collectors ship,(the Flood from Halo).

Says it all really.

If we are going to be pedantic then the Alien did that over twenty years before Halo.

[Whatever42]

I'm going to throw my agreement behind outlaworacle and bjdbwea. The collectors could have been far more sinister but instead turned out to be mindless drones. They were no more than Geth-like fodder.



That fits the story, sure. But it makes them rather dull as villains go. Visually, though, I thought they looked great.

[DarthSliver]

Problem is we didnt care about them. They just felt like the Mercs and Blue Sun and Eclipse fight. ME2 was good as a game. But as it fitting in to the story, felt like an expansion to ME1 like Awakening to DAO.

Modifié par DarthSliver, 04 février 2011 - 06:00 .

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm going to throw my agreement behind outlaworacle and bjdbwea. The collectors could have been far more sinister but instead turned out to be mindless drones. They were no more than Geth-like fodder.

That fits the story, sure. But it makes them rather dull as villains go. Visually, though, I thought they looked great.

I agree as well.

Design, wise, they were fine.  Better than fine.  But in presentation, they were boring as anything.  Even the Prothean connection was done in a meh matter.  They were cannon fodder and nothing more.

[Jabarai]

Slayer299 wrote...

The design of Collectors looking like bugs wasn't boring, that didn't really matter. The thing about the Collectors is that as villains they are totally laughable. Th whole reveal of Collectors were Protheans was presented in such an underwhelming fashion as to be completely ignored.....

I'm sorry, but I would hazard a guess that you've been somewhat dulled by contemporary western entertainment?

I've only played ME2 once, and when I learnt the origin of the Collectors, it felt pretty much like a constrained shock. After all, learning it all would never make any real difference to the enemy - it just reveals a bit about their past.

Harbinger sounded more like a 10 yr old boy trying to act tough and failing horribly at it as opposed to Sovereign who treated humans as insects, unworthy of debating anything with them. You don't argue with lower lifeforms you just squish them or make pin-board presentations of them anything else just isn't worth your time.

Harbinger didn't really attempt a debate with Shepard. He taunted and threatened (perhaps too liberally, I admit). And while Harby wasn't as impressive as Sovereign, he did only commandeer a pawn controlling another pawn. His powers were greatly diminished and perhaps knew that those pawns couldn't really hurt Shepard.

I'd say that with the appropriate difficulty level the Harby should feel like a real threat. To me he did.

[Da_Lion_Man]

The design was alright, I thought they looked a little creepy so that's a plus.



However, I felt like the Collectors as an enemy were kind of wasted potential. They could've been more intimidating or we could've know more about them, or should I say the Protheans? The Collector - Prothean relevation didn't really create much of a shock for me. Now they feel a bit shallow if you ask me...

[AkiKishi]

Don't feel like typing so I'm just going to paste what I wrote on the other thread.


More of the Geth civil war would have been better. Legion popping up earlier and the Heretics being there in place of the collectors. The collectors fell flat, the big Prothean reveal , just a yawn because we never got to know the Protheans on a personal level.

Now if Harbinger had actually been whoever died on Virmire twisted like that. I bet that would have evoked a lot more emotion because then it's personal. Even if you did not particularly like the character you would probably not wish that on them.

important bit in bold

Modifié par BobSmith101, 04 février 2011 - 06:37 .

[CroGamer002]

mangeo wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

You fail at grammar.


Also did I hurt your feelings so you blocked me?

I blocked you because of the ignorant conversation killing behavior you have presented on my forums.

Right...

[Slayer299]

Schneidend wrote...

@Slayer: Harbinger doesn't even bother having a conversation with you. Sovereign did. Harbinger just tells you how pathetic you are as he repeatedly sets you on fire with biotics (somehow...).

True, I was unclear it what I meant. With all of Harbingers "I am this" taunting he seemed a lesser threat then he should of been. Instead he seemed reduced to a annoying garbage talker rather than one I needed to take seriously, considering he was a Reaper. 

Sov did talk to you, but what little he did say and how it was transmitted seemed made him seem a lot more threatening than Harb. ever would be. We may find out that is not true in ME3 and Harb is indeed a dangerous threat, but that's what I think those two as of now.

[Slayer299]

Jabarai wrote...
I'm sorry, but I would hazard a guess that you've been somewhat dulled by contemporary western entertainment?

I really don't understand what you mean by that at all...

Harbinger didn't really attempt a debate with Shepard. He taunted and threatened (perhaps too liberally, I admit). And while Harby wasn't as impressive as Sovereign, he did only commandeer a pawn controlling another pawn. His powers were greatly diminished and perhaps knew that those pawns couldn't really hurt Shepard.

I'd say that with the appropriate difficulty level the Harby should feel like a real threat. To me he did.

What would difficulty level have to do with making Harby a threat? if he's harder to kill...whoopie. It was his whole "I am this" and "you are XXXXX" all that time that diminished him as a true threat and reduced him to that of a little boy taunting you.

I was unclear when I said Harby tried to debate with you, it was indeed 1-sided.

[Pro_Consul]

Slayer299 wrote...

The design of Collectors looking like bugs wasn't boring, that didn't really matter. The thing about the Collectors is that as villains they are totally laughable. Th whole reveal of Collectors were Protheans was presented in such an underwhelming fashion as to be completely ignored.

Have to agree here. If they had taken the resources devoted to Harbinger's lame trash talking and put it into providing a few preliminary clues about Collector origins prior to the big Prothean reveal, that would have gone a long way to fixing this...but not all the way. There was a big opportunity to portray the Collectors as tragic figures, so that you would feel a bit of sadness every time you drilled a hole in one's forehead, but also felt you had shown it mercy by doing so. Instead they were reduced to little more than enemy security bots.

Slayer299 wrote...Overall the Collectors and Harb, were more annoying and another threat to be destroyed rather than feel threatened by.

Harbinger sounded more like a 10 yr old boy trying to act tough and failing horribly at it as opposed to Sovereign who treated humans as insects, unworthy of debating anything with them. You don't argue with lower lifeforms you just squish them or make pin-board presentations of them anything else just isn't worth your time.

Agree again. In fact the only things I found mildly threatening during the 3 missions where they turn up were the human abomination critters, i.e. scions and praetorians.

As to Harbinger, perhaps we are just seeing the range of personalities possible for Reapers. Sovereign was the aloof snob of his class, while Harbinger was the hyperactive chatterbox who regularly got detention for talking while the teacher was talking, and who was known for taking his ball and going home whenever the other kids told him shutup during kickball games.

[MassEffect762]

Collider wrote...

The Collectors are quite boring.
The visual design doesn't really matter to me.
It's the story (or lack thereof) that is disappointing.
Granted, having hordes of mindless enemies is nothing new.
But it didn't help that Mr. Moustache Twirling One-Dimensional Harbinger was the leader of the Collectors.

+1

[Ramirez Wolfen]

mangeo wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

I didn't find their design to be boring... what I found dissappointing was the lack of a genuine feeling of threat emanating from them (and Harbinger), and that has more to do with story treatment than physical appearance, IMO.

I actualy agree with this for the most part...
In the first game there is so much dark new mystery around sovereign & the newly discovered reapers.Plus you never know what Saren has waiting for you at the next location.
In Mass Effect 2 you kind of knew what the inside of the Collectors ship would look like & they also gave to much away in cutscenes.

Harbinger came off as annoying more than anything with all the "this hurts you" and whatnot. I just wanted him to shut up. It's a good thing he goes away with one shot of Mordin's Heavy Incinerate (at least on my playthroughs).

[Suron]

ME2 is just ME1 with better shooting gameplay and minus the soul.



Saren wasn't THAT great..but that ending battle felt epic.



the Suicide Mission was cool and had "weight" to it but nothing like the battle of the citadel and facing frog-boy Saren.



The story is just more engaging in ME1..I've played through that almost 30 times, literally, and still enjoy parts of the dialogue tree's I don't follow much. I just started another ME1 game, first time with default Shepard looks (Sheploo?..meh whatever) and goin full on Renegade...haven't done that much...and it still draws me in.



I'm only on my 5th or 6th time in ME2 and I can't play for more then an hour tops before I have to quit out...yes the gameplay as far as the shooter mechanics is a TON better..but there's more to an RPG then that.



what does that have to do with this thread? everything..because the Collectors are a HUGE reason as to why ME2 just doesn't have the staying power ME1 had. Nor is the story even close with all the contradictions and flailing of the plot-driven idiot-stick.

[James2912]

"Are the collectors are boring?" I am afraid I do not understand the question.

[SandTrout]

Guys, don't feed the troll. You should really know better.

[Sajuro]

STG wrote...

Collectors have 2 arms and 2 legs, such a lazy design...

and eyes, how over done are eyes? seriously Bioware <_<

[MassEffect762]

Suron wrote...

ME2 is just ME1 with better shooting gameplay and minus the soul.

Saren wasn't THAT great..but that ending battle felt epic.

the Suicide Mission was cool and had "weight" to it but nothing like the battle of the citadel and facing frog-boy Saren.

The story is just more engaging in ME1..I've played through that almost 30 times, literally, and still enjoy parts of the dialogue tree's I don't follow much. I just started another ME1 game, first time with default Shepard looks (Sheploo?..meh whatever) and goin full on Renegade...haven't done that much...and it still draws me in.

I'm only on my 5th or 6th time in ME2 and I can't play for more then an hour tops before I have to quit out...yes the gameplay as far as the shooter mechanics is a TON better..but there's more to an RPG then that.

what does that have to do with this thread? everything..because the Collectors are a HUGE reason as to why ME2 just doesn't have the staying power ME1 had. Nor is the story even close with all the contradictions and flailing of the plot-driven idiot-stick.

Amen.

[Jabarai]

Slayer299 wrote...

Jabarai wrote...
I'm sorry, but I would hazard a guess that you've been somewhat dulled by contemporary western entertainment?

I really don't understand what you mean by that at all...

Sorry for being so vague...

It wasn't a euphemism of any sort, don't worry. What I meant was that if one gets caught up by the sort of action packed, hurried, superficial and looks-centered TV or film production that is the norm today, one gets 'dulled'. Now we're at a point where series like Rubycon get cancelled due to their continuing storyline and lack of pace.

(An inside tip to all watching Rubycon: don't even contemplate on watching the last episode, it's rubbish, and simply must've come as a stupid after-thought in light of the series being almost certainly cancelled before a second season.)

What would difficulty level have to do with making Harby a threat? if he's harder to kill...whoopie. It was his whole "I am this" and "you are XXXXX" all that time that diminished him as a true threat and reduced him to that of a little boy taunting you.

Difficulty level greatly influences the level of fear and panic in a combat, which directly influences how believable and threatening Harby sounds like. If you die a lot, despite your best efforts, it does teach you a point about how hopeless the situation is and, ultimately, makes Harby's threats seem well-founded. That's what I felt, at least.

But then again, when I picked up ME2, I'd only played ME once months ago and my shooting skills were mediocre at best. In the end, that is why Harby felt like a real threat throughout the whole game experience.