9 réponses à ce sujet

[mad cat from hell]

Hi. I ve tested level drain on epic characters and thats what i got:

-swashbuckler 10 fighter 28 got drained 2 levels (to fghter 26) and that resulted in -4 saves penalty and -2 thac0 penalty;

-ranger 9 cleric 30 got drained 8 levels(to cleric22) and got -2 saves penalty and -1 thac0 penalty Same effect for being drained 4 levels : -2 saves, -1 thac0;

I didnt check the behaviour of max hitpoints after lvl drain.

I cant get the pattern behind those numbers. 
1)How does lvl drain affect epic levels drained from characters (at epic lvls you ve already finished improving saves and thac0 by class tables, but there is still a penalty to thac0 and saves for epic lvls drained)? 
2)Is that right that not epic level drain just reduce your thac0, saves, hp etc according to class tables?

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 04 février 2011 - 10:48 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

Idk how epic levels are effected, just the normal effects



Pretty much you 'temporarily' lose char levels.

Less HP, less spells (spell slots dissapear and random spells lost from memory), Less THAC0... etc... idk how abilities are effected.



Why i love the Undead hunter at times... bull rush Bodhi and those shadow slayers in TOB final battle.

[Dante2377]

I don't know what you mean by "epic" levels - do you mean levels where you get HLAs? Pretty much once you're level drained, you lose all the things that you gained including hit points, thaco, saving throws, HLAs, extra spells memorized, etc.



For example if you just leveled up and gained another use of True Sight (from an Inquisitor), then get level drained, you'd lose that extra use of true sight until you take care of it.

[mad cat from hell]

No i mean epic levels like this: you see, there are tables of thac0, saves, etc improvement. At one point the tables end(usually around level 20) and you dont improve thac0, saves, etc after that (special classes like kensai or archers improve thac0 after that point due to their class powers). So when you get lvl drained while you are still "in the improvement table" you can see what your new saves thac0 etc will be according to the lvlign table. But when you already stopped gaining benefits by table and you get lvl drained, what are you going to lose and how much? And you are going to lose something like in the examples in my tests.

[Dante2377]

I think you are making up this term "epic levels" and confusing yourself. If for example there's no difference in THACO/Saves from level 20 to level 21 and you get level drained down from 21 to 20, then your THACO and saves won't change. What you will lose will depend on your class and what you gained from one level to the next.



For example a level 27 fighter that gets level drained down to level 26 will only lose the 3hp difference and the one HLA he got going from 26 to 27 (I'm assuming that THACO, save, etc don't improve from 26 to 27 for a fighter, but even if they do, let's assume they don't since that's what you're asking about).



If a level 20 sorcerer got level drained down to level 19, they would only be able to cast 4 level 9 spells instead of 6 and lose 1hp.



Basically whatever the differences are between their old level and their new (temporary) drained level is what they will lose - not just static items like HP, THACO, saves, etc, but also HLA uses, number of spell castings (for non-sorcerers this will un-memorize spells that get "lost"), x/day ability uses (e.g. Berserker's Enrage, Kensai's Kai, Inquisitor's True Sight, etc).



In your two specific examples, your swash/fighter in addition to the save/thaco that you mentioned would also lose the +3hp per level that fighters get after they stop getting actual hit dice as well as the HLA uses for those 2 levels (whichever ones you picked last).



for the cleric example, you'll have lost a 5th level spell, 2 6th level spells, and one 7th level spells as well as 8 HLAs, the save/thaco items you mentioned, and the +2hp per level as well.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Dante2377 wrote...

I think you are making up this term "epic levels" and confusing yourself. If for example there's no difference in THACO/Saves from level 20 to level 21 and you get level drained down from 21 to 20, then your THACO and saves won't change. What you will lose will depend on your class and what you gained from one level to the next.

But OP already said that he saw the changes in THAC0...
I haven't tested this so far (hoping somebody more knowledgable would be able to explain), but I am inclined to believe him.
The term epic levels comes indeed from D&D, where OP likely also got his saving throw tables (because they are not in the manual).

For example a level 27 fighter that gets level drained down to level 26 will only lose the 3hp difference and the one HLA he got going from 26 to 27

HLAs are not lost upon level drain (or dualclassing). The only way to "lose" them is reducing a mage (or cleric) to a level where he cannot cast them anymore (for lack of spell slots).

Edit:
And a dualclassed character (like that Swashbuckler->Fighter) will only lose levels in it's current class.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 07 février 2011 - 09:27 .

[mad cat from hell]

I ve said in 1st post that my characters lost thac0 and saves even though they both were 25+ lvl in the drained class and its true.



One thing that caught my eye is that they both lost existing item bonus to saves (one character had -4 saves bonus from items, the other one had -2 bonus from items). Further penalties to saves started occuring when a character got back into lvling table of ThaC0, saves etc (as i said, this table for all classes ends around lvl 20) as expected and probably by table although i didnt check it.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Revisiting this thread.

I suggest you ask this problem on the G3 or SHS forums. I believe that people there are on average a bit more experienced with the precise effects of certain things (like level drain) (and I ask that you link to your thread once you do because I am also interested in an proper answer).

[mad cat from hell]

Mm ok here is the link for my post: forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php. Maybe someone will answer this question there in the meantime.

[mad cat from hell]

Ok so its actually quite interesting: in addition to standart progression penalties, a character ALWAYS loses thac0 and saves bonus from items when level drained (regardless of number of lvls drained and his current lvl). In my tests items giving saves and thac0 were on fighter: ring of prot +2, amulet of seldarine, helm of balduran, gauntlets of weapon expertise(bonus 4 saves and 2 thac0 total).



ranger cleric: ring of gaxx, ioun stone (2 bonus saves, 1 bonus thac0 total).