522 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulzeraj]

I can't find a trusted source for vacuum exposure health issues. We know water boils but the only water exposed to vacuum is on the mouth. An arm would keep his internal blood pressure and the rest of the suit is sealed... I can't think of a problem.

People think your blood would boil by space exposure. That doesn't happen. 

Now if we're talking about solar wind, radiation and stuff... I don't want to discuss the radiation effects on fictional alien species.


EDIT: Ah ok... got it from NASA:
http://imagine.gsfc....ers/970603.html

How long can a human live unprotected in space?

If you don't try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.
...
You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. You do not instantly freeze because, although the space environment is typically very cold, heat does not transfer away from a body quickly. Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. If your skin is exposed to direct sunlight without any protection from its intense ultraviolet radiation, you can get a very bad sunburn.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 07 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[LuxDragon]

Not boil. Evaporate. Wikipedia has some pretty clear things about it.



http://en.wikipedia..../Space_exposure

[Ulzeraj]

LuxDragon wrote...

Not boil. Evaporate. Wikipedia has some pretty clear things about it.

http://en.wikipedia..../Space_exposure

Water? Yes but as the article says, the only water exposed to the vacuum is the saliva on your mouth. Read the article. Its easy to understand. Your injures would be asfixiation (because you're not breathing duh) and solar burns.

This concludes that the only _really omfg dangerous vacuum moment_ of Mass Effect 2 is the jump from the delerict reaper to the normandy as I said before. Because that star still had fusion... but I can be wrong because AFAIK a brown dwarf would emit most of its energy on the infrared spectrum and idk how bad that can be to your skin. I think its substantialy less than a punny red dwarf. Not all stars are like Sol.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 07 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[Gleym]

*Handraise* Genuinely curious here; how does that apply to moisture on the eyes? That is to say are the eyes affected, are they not affected?

Modifié par Gleym, 07 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[JG The Gamer]

I sum it up by saying if you do not get oxygen or radiation protection in about 10 seconds, you're toast in space.

[Ulzeraj]

Gleym wrote...

*Handraise* Genuinely curious here; how does that apply to moisture on the eyes? That is to say are the eyes affected, are they not affected?

No idea. Neither the NASA article and its source (http://www.geoffreyl...com/vacuum.html) doesn't state anything about eyes. Just blood pressure, skin and mouth.

I don't know how body pressure and fluid works. There is also the fact that water mixed with other substances have different properties (like when you use salt to melt snow) but I'm not by far an expert.

Maybe we should search for asfixia sympthons to know about it. There are cases of vacuum exposure described on the articles... none of them reported eye issues.

JG The Gamer wrote...

I sum it up by saying if you do not get oxygen or radiation protection in about 10 seconds, you're toast in space.

Oxigen and pressure can be explained by how scuba divers do their stuff. Radiation is a very vague term because as I said... some stars like red and brown dwarves are very cold compared to the sun and emit most of its energy as infrared instead of UV.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 07 février 2011 - 01:06 .

[Gleym]

Hmm. I'm just thinking since if it evaporates or potentially boils, and there's water/moisture on the eyes, whether or not the eyes might dry up to painfully damaging levels. Just my contemplation there, no actual backup on a factual front.

[Ulzeraj]

Gleym wrote...

Hmm. I'm just thinking since if it evaporates or potentially boils, and there's water/moisture on the eyes, whether or not the eyes might dry up to painfully damaging levels. Just my contemplation there, no actual backup on a factual front.

The fact is that pure exposure like suit ruptures result in the subject becoming inconcient after 15-30 seconds. I don't have idea how "a breather" could change things. My guess is that it doesn't do much. It is a very bad idea to hold your breath because the pressure difference between your body and the environment will cause a rupture on your lungs.

I know that when divers are emerging from very deep levels of the water (sorry if I cant express myself english is not my first language) they need to keep releasing air to adjust pressure. The article states:

Note that this discussion covers the effect of vacuum exposure only. The decompression event itself can have disasterous effects if the person being decompressed makes the mistake of trying to hold his or her breath. This will result in rupturing of the lungs, with almost certainly fatal results. There is a good reason that it is called "explosive" decompression.

But... in the case of our Krogan arm discussion. There was an experiment about partial body exposure to vacuum:

On the subject of partial-body vacuum exposure, the results are not quite as serious. In 1960, during a high-altitude balloon parachute-jump, a partial-body vacuum exposure incident occurred when Joe Kittinger, Jr. lost pressurization in his right glove during an ascent to 103,000 ft (19.5 miles) in an unpressurized balloon gondola, Despite the depressurization, he continued the mission, and although the hand became painful and useless, after he returned to the ground, his hand returned to normal. Kittinger wrote in National Geographic (November 1960):

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 07 février 2011 - 01:13 .

[LuxDragon]

Meh. I'll just stay on the safe side. Space exposure without proper prep, bad. Going 200 meters underwater with proper prep, bad. Seems simple enough.

If you have to talk about survival probabities, options, and medical problems just from exposure alone, that's a problem.

Modifié par LuxDragon, 07 février 2011 - 01:17 .

[Gleym]

So in other words, it isn't fatal, but the more parts of your body are exposed, the more painful and difficult it becomes to use those parts (if we're talking about arms and legs and such), ultimately making them useless? Am I reading that right, Ulz?



...Man, Jack would just keel over in a fetal position wouldn't she?

[Ulzeraj]

Gleym wrote...

So in other words, it isn't fatal, but the more parts of your body are exposed, the more painful and difficult it becomes to use those parts (if we're talking about arms and legs and such), ultimately making them useless? Am I reading that right, Ulz?

...Man, Jack would just keel over in a fetal position wouldn't she?

Exactly.



Thats why I never try to apply science to fiction. The more you know and think about that , the more some things can become ridiculous. Not talking about just mass effect suits... talking about all the aspects of all the sci-fi works everywhere. The way gravity, travel, life support and everything is handled on titles ranging from star {wars,trek}, Farscape, B5 etc etc... it can ruin the experience. My motto is just to enjoy the story.

Its like a book by Kafka my teacher told me about. It is about a man that became an insect. It does not explain why or how he turned into an insect. It just tell the story of a man that became an insect.

My thoughts anyway. Don't want to argue about it.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 07 février 2011 - 01:22 .

[jeweledleah]

Ulzeraj wrote...

Gleym wrote...

So in other words, it isn't fatal, but the more parts of your body are exposed, the more painful and difficult it becomes to use those parts (if we're talking about arms and legs and such), ultimately making them useless? Am I reading that right, Ulz?

...Man, Jack would just keel over in a fetal position wouldn't she?

Exactly.



Thats why I never try to apply science to fiction. The more you know and think about that , the more some things can become ridiculous. Not talking about just mass effect suits... talking about all the aspects of all the sci-fi works everywhere. The way gravity, travel, life support and everything is handled on titles ranging from star {wars,trek}, Farscape, B5 etc etc... it can ruin the experience. My motto is just to enjoy the story.

Its like a book by Kafka my teacher told me about. It is about a man that became an insect. It does not explain why or how he turned into an insect. It just tell the story of a man that became an insect.

My thoughts anyway. Don't want to argue about it.

your standpoint definitely makes a great deal of sence.

writers make the rules for their stories and set up their universe following those rules.  and its much easier accept sci-fi that breaks every law of physics and then some, when its set in some unknown galaxy far far away.  the problem with Mass Effect is twofold.  its set in Milky way and it doesn't follow its own rules from segment to segment.  Continuity and consistancy are very important for a good story.  and as good as ME is, both installments, they are really pushing it.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 07 février 2011 - 01:32 .

[Gleym]

Doesn't Farscape actually profess a decent amount of science in some ways? I mean, Crichton does make a jump between ships without a suit on and doesn't explode, but it does mess him up bad enough that he needs a bit of medical attention afterwards, whereas D'Argo's species can survive in vacuum up until a certain point before it becomes dangerous for them, like Krogans.

Modifié par Gleym, 07 février 2011 - 01:39 .

[Ulzeraj]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ulzeraj wrote...

Gleym wrote...

So in other words, it isn't fatal, but the more parts of your body are exposed, the more painful and difficult it becomes to use those parts (if we're talking about arms and legs and such), ultimately making them useless? Am I reading that right, Ulz?

...Man, Jack would just keel over in a fetal position wouldn't she?

Exactly.



Thats why I never try to apply science to fiction. The more you know and think about that , the more some things can become ridiculous. Not talking about just mass effect suits... talking about all the aspects of all the sci-fi works everywhere. The way gravity, travel, life support and everything is handled on titles ranging from star {wars,trek}, Farscape, B5 etc etc... it can ruin the experience. My motto is just to enjoy the story.

Its like a book by Kafka my teacher told me about. It is about a man that became an insect. It does not explain why or how he turned into an insect. It just tell the story of a man that became an insect.

My thoughts anyway. Don't want to argue about it.

your standpoint definitely makes a great deal of sence.

writers make the rules for their stories and set up their universe following those rules.  and its much easier accept sci-fi that breaks every law of physics and then some, when its set in some unknown galaxy far far away.  the problem with Mass Effect is twofold.  its set in Milky way and it doesn't follow its own rules from segment to segment.  Continuity and consistancy are very important for a good story.  and as good as ME is, both installments, they are really pushing it.

A distant galaxy would change things? I dont think so. The whole thing with the laws of physics is that if a certain law applies here, it should be applied everywhere on the universe. If you need different laws to each place then we are doing something wrong. Its really like that... physics holy graal is to unify all things small and big into a single theory of everything.

I really enjoy Mass Effect. It's a great sci-fi/cyberpunk universe that like every other work tries to remain loyal to science (after all there is still sci in sci-fi.... ok that was cheesy). Sure as hell it has a lot of inconsistencies but every work has. Arthur C. Clarke did a shameless ugly retcon on 3001: The Final Odyssey regarding FTL speeds (http://en.wikipedia....d_earlier_books)


Now, lets talk about this:


Does that diminish the greatness of the Star Wars saga? Not at all... only if you think too much about it.

[Gleym]

Only thing that sorta diminishes the realism in ME2 for me is when you're pretty much on a planet like a lesser version of Crematoria from Chronicles of Riddick.. and Jack is running around topless. I mean, fine, breather-masks can slip through the cracks once in a while in the progression, but that.. that's just dumb.

[Ulzeraj]

Gleym wrote...

Only thing that sorta diminishes the realism in ME2 for me is when you're pretty much on a planet like a lesser version of Crematoria from Chronicles of Riddick.. and Jack is running around topless. I mean, fine, breather-masks can slip through the cracks once in a while in the progression, but that.. that's just dumb.

We all know ME2 had a more cyberpunk/superhero theme and pace contrary to the "space odissey" of ME1. For better or for worse they are different and there is no discussion about that.  You know I'm an ardent defender of ME2 but I know some people feel "betrayed". It is a great game regardless of genre.

I hope they can mix the better of both worlds on ME3 so we can have stylish space suits like those shepard used on ME2 and a lot of revalation oriented storytelling with good action pacing.

I had a strat heh. 

"Jack... you're not going because you don't have a proper suit. Garrus, grunt... you guys come with me."

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 07 février 2011 - 02:01 .

[Gleym]

Yeah, that was pretty much my method of playing too. I left behind those I didn't feel would be able to make it.

[TRISTAN WERBE]

i thought the same

[LOLZAO]

Gleym wrote...

Yeah, that was pretty much my method of playing too. I left behind those I didn't feel would be able to make it.

That was what i did too on missions where taking Miranda,Samara or Jack felt that idiotic i know this don´t fix the problem, but what the eyes don´t see the heart doesn´t feel.

[thepiebaker]

Ulzeraj wrote...

Gleym wrote...

So in other words, it isn't fatal, but the more parts of your body are exposed, the more painful and difficult it becomes to use those parts (if we're talking about arms and legs and such), ultimately making them useless? Am I reading that right, Ulz?

...Man, Jack would just keel over in a fetal position wouldn't she?

Exactly.



Thats why I never try to apply science to fiction. The more you know and think about that , the more some things can become ridiculous. Not talking about just mass effect suits... talking about all the aspects of all the sci-fi works everywhere. The way gravity, travel, life support and everything is handled on titles ranging from star {wars,trek}, Farscape, B5 etc etc... it can ruin the experience. My motto is just to enjoy the story.

Its like a book by Kafka my teacher told me about. It is about a man that became an insect. It does not explain why or how he turned into an insect. It just tell the story of a man that became an insect.

My thoughts anyway. Don't want to argue about it.

this, just shut up and enjoy the story and eyecandy... and miranda's ass

[The Fan]

InvaderErl wrote...

:confused:

We did have a scene like that

Ahhh, the good old N7 heavy armour

[jeweledleah]

I found a comparison that fits. mass effect is a great game and its a great story, but lately its like reading a book that hasn't been proofread. names are mixed up here and there, characters switch personalities, the lore changes from page to page. you still love the story,but you start to wonder exactly what editors were doing there.



even wonder woman wore flats and it doesn't get much more fanservice or ridiculous to the point of just eating it up without questions

[Gleym]

I think it's more like Metroid Other M. As far as fans of the original Metroid game are concerned, the game was a horrific travesty with Samus going from a strong, independent and seasoned warrior-chick to being vulnerable, meek, and fragile, and yet the game sold amazingly because the crowd it was aimed at had never actually played the Metroid series before, so they didn't care about any previous conceptions.

Either that, or it's like WoW, starting with small tweaks to the lore here and there and then spiralling out of control for aesthetic over story:
http://nerfnow.com/comic/image/463

Modifié par Gleym, 07 février 2011 - 06:11 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Gleym wrote...

I think it's more like Metroid Other M. As far as fans of the original Metroid game are concerned, the game was a horrific travesty with Samus going from a strong, independent and seasoned warrior-chick to being vulnerable, meek, and fragile, and yet the game sold amazingly because the crowd it was aimed at had never actually played the Metroid series before, so they didn't care about any previous conceptions.

Either that, or it's like WoW:
*snip*

Other M does not exist.  Do you hear me?  IT DOES NOT EXIST.

[Gleym]

Ironically, the Nerf NOW! dude says it perfectly in his post regard this comic: "A game lore should be acceptable, not explainable." The fact that we even need to go into such heavy explanations and scientific reasonings as to why Miranda and Jack should be just fine in their current getups is proof that the lore has already started getting out of control.