522 réponses à ce sujet

[Capeo]

Phaedon wrote...

Sci-fi often overestimates vacuum.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  You wouldn't explode like many movies make it, but, even with exhaling as much as you could you'd be dead in about 14 seconds give or take.  NASA and other space agencies have tested the effects quite thoroughly on primates and the Russians lost three men to a leak.  In order to survive in a vacuum you need a suit that covers you entirely and maintains minimal atmosphereic pressure.  Even the N7 helmet Shepard wears is useless because the back of your head is exposed.

[Phaedon]

Not dead in 14 secs really, at least not at first, but in a coma.



You'd be surprised how badly sci-fi has overestimated vacuum. People blowing up, boiling, melting and urinating at the same time!

[Capeo]

Phaedon wrote...

Not dead in 14 secs really, at least not at first, but in a coma.

You'd be surprised how badly sci-fi has overestimated vacuum. People blowing up, boiling, melting and urinating at the same time!

Actually within ten seconds all the gases in solution in your bodily fluids will return to gaseous form.  Extreme, but not explosive, swelling is visible by this point.  The oxygen in your body would exchange out of your lungs and you'd be unconscious in about 14 seconds.  As I said, this has been tested both by accident and on purpose.  That's not sci-fi or conjecture.  From that point on you're asphyxiating and have the life expectancy of any other living thing dependent on oxygen would.  If you didn't exhale your lungs would rupture and none of the rest would matter. 

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

There isn't an issue to fix. The squad don't need armour for all missions.

Seriously? You don't find yourself less immersed when you see Jack fighting Praetorians while wearing a nipple strap? She's jumping all over the place, and you never see a nip slip. What's up with that?

I know these characters would probably have no problem wearing these outfits in a bar brawl. But whenever I see them fighting Collectors, or mercs, or getting hit in the face with Thresher Maw acid, I just think to myself, "Wouldn't it be great if Bioware hadn't stooped to this level? Wouldn't it be great if these characters actually wore armor? Wouldn't it be great if it was consistent with the first game?"

I mean, here's why these characters should be wearing armor:

1. It looks more believable in an IP that already set the precedent of having people wear armor with ME1. If it was a Marvel game, I'd understand the point of the costumes, but since it's not... it's meh.

2. It looks more believable in general.

3. I'm no prude, but even I laughed at how ridiculous it was seeing Miranda fighting through a scrapyard of mercs and Krogan and Varren in her catsuit, while Shep and Garrus rocked the house in their armor right next to her. Contrast in personalities is great, but seeing that kind of contrast made me laugh. In other words, the personalized costumes failed to impart to me a sense that, "This is a squad of highly-trained, highly talented people". Instead, it just made me go WTF.

4. Kinetic Barriers wouldn't stop a Varren bite from ripping your arm apart, nor would they stop acid from mutilating your face or radiation (which eats shields for breakfast) from giving you a blistering rash.


Yeah, as long as each character looks personalized, I guess armor doesn't matter. Yeah. Doesn't matter that each character could concievably customize their own armor set; we just assume that Jack would never wear armor, so covering her up in some way would "ruin" her character. Yeah. Good point. *cough* <_<

[Sidney]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
I mean, here's why these characters should be wearing armor:

1. It looks more believable in an IP that already set the precedent of having people wear armor with ME1. If it was a Marvel game, I'd understand the point of the costumes, but since it's not... it's meh.

2. It looks more believable in general.

3. I'm no prude,

4. Kinetic Barriers wouldn't stop a Varren bite from ripping your arm apart, nor would they stop acid from mutilating your face or radiation (which eats shields for breakfast) from giving you a blistering rash.

1. Here's your retcon to a bad decision from ME1. Analysis showed that armor actual did diddly vs projectile weapons - it makes no sense that it would either BTW - and that shield and barriers were the only effective defense. Armor added weight and fatigued for no real benefit. Some merc groups still use it for intimidation or as a uniform but most people have chosen to ditch the stuff. Notice the collectors have figured out armor doesn't work.
2. No, it looks stupid in most cases . Armor is a hold over from some Dungeons and Dragons reflex with Bioware it makes no sense in a gunfire world. It also looks dumb in any non-combat setting. The discussion about vaacums is the only case where something other than "street clothes" makes sense.
3. Yes, they "titilating" but oddly enough lots of people - athletes for example - wear outfits that are skin tight, short or otherwise not "professional".
4. Shields, hards shields and their ilk should do the trick plus "varren attack" isn't what you kit out for. I mean we COULD stop spears in the modern army but it isn't worth it because that's not what we fight all that often.

[Brohammed]

The one thing that killed me in mass effect 2 was the lack of helmets. I remember being on that lava world only to look back and see miranda in high heels with a breath mask. They can wear whatever "iconic" stylish outfits they want on the normandy, but on a mission I want at least a touch of immersion. No need to make it totally a comic book.

[thompsonaf]

This isn't a hard thing to do, the armor models and textures are already in the game.

[MadCat221]

.
Yes, I know I misspelled "vacuum" in the first one.

Also... Where is the kinetic barrier generator on the unrealistically-clothed-for-combat characters?  It's plausible that a suit of armor has a full-body combat-grade kinetic barrier emission system.

What do Jack, Miranda, and Samara have for kinetic barriers?  Biotic barriers.  I thought it was established that it was an exertion to create biotic mass effect fields?  Why do these characters have to do something previously established to be a strain just for basic protection in combat?  Why does Jacob have the only true-to-ME1 portrayal of a biotic Barrier power?  Why doesn't a biotic class Shepard have both a biotic barrier and his/her suit's built in kinetic barrier?

Modifié par MadCat221, 05 février 2011 - 09:45 .

[samurai crusade]

Brohammed wrote...

The one thing that killed me in mass effect 2 was the lack of helmets. I remember being on that lava world only to look back and see miranda in high heels with a breath mask. They can wear whatever "iconic" stylish outfits they want on the normandy, but on a mission I want at least a touch of immersion. No need to make it totally a comic book.

this. unique on the normandy... armor and helmets in combat.

[MadCat221]

I'd rather have something "unique" but still a combat-grade hardsuit for the characters while on-mission, personally...

[Babli]

Sidney wrote...
1. Here's your retcon to a bad decision from ME1. Analysis showed that armor actual did diddly vs projectile weapons - it makes no sense that it would either BTW - and that shield and barriers were the only effective defense. Armor added weight and fatigued for no real benefit. Some merc groups still use it for intimidation or as a uniform but most people have chosen to ditch the stuff. Notice the collectors have figured out armor doesn't work.

And about hostile enviroments? In vacuum you are ****ed without this armor. And armor actualy can protect in fight thanks to kinetic barriers that are coming from the armor. So no armor, no kinetic barriers. No kinetic barriers...absolutely no protection. So its perfectly fine when you go on dangerous mission without any protection?
C´mon...

2. No, it looks stupid in most cases . Armor is a hold over from some Dungeons and Dragons reflex with Bioware it makes no sense in a gunfire world. It also looks dumb in any non-combat setting. The discussion about vaacums is the only case where something other than "street clothes" makes sense.

See above.

3. Yes, they "titilating" but oddly enough lots of people - athletes for example - wear outfits that are skin tight, short or otherwise not "professional".

You are comparing athletes and soldiers.
...
You are comparing athletes and soldiers....
...

4. Shields, hards shields and their ilk should do the trick plus "varren attack" isn't what you kit out for. I mean we COULD stop spears in the modern army but it isn't worth it because that's not what we fight all that often.

So when going on mission we are going to rely on absence of any enemy except those with guns. On alien worlds...

Armors were established, codex explains everything about them, it all makes sense. So any arguments are irrelevant.

In KOTOR we could wear anything, even underwear but also armor and to space we needed a suits. It all affected how long we survived in fight.
Now we have two models for every squadmate and if we want more we must pay for it and even then we dont get proper protection for every enviroment and it dont make difference in fight. Thats some evolution in gaming there...

[KrunkMasterB]

People keep saying that armor does nothing against bullets. If that is true, then why do we have to strip away an armor bar before damaging an enemy's health? Let's have some consistency at least.

[Deebe]

KrunkMasterB wrote...

People keep saying that armor does nothing against bullets. If that is true, then why do we have to strip away an armor bar before damaging an enemy's health? Let's have some consistency at least.

Yes ^good point KrunkMaster

I too am all for believable armors/helmets in combat and hazardous environments. Anyone who is getting into a fight of some kind is going to want to reduce the risk of being injured or hurt. Wearing spandex and tottering on high heels is not the best idea when in the middle of a gunfight, it just adds another problem to a already percarious situation.

Val Seleznyov wrote...
 her new alternate attire is an insult to women.

Huh?.... Miranda's new armor looks good, more combat worthy then her other outfits.

[Val Seleznyov]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

There isn't an issue to fix. The squad don't need armour for all missions.

Seriously? You don't find yourself less immersed when you see Jack fighting Praetorians while wearing a nipple strap? She's jumping all over the place, and you never see a nip slip. What's up with that?

I know these characters would probably have no problem wearing these outfits in a bar brawl. But whenever I see them fighting Collectors, or mercs, or getting hit in the face with Thresher Maw acid, I just think to myself, "Wouldn't it be great if Bioware hadn't stooped to this level? Wouldn't it be great if these characters actually wore armor? Wouldn't it be great if it was consistent with the first game?"

I mean, here's why these characters should be wearing armor:

1. It looks more believable in an IP that already set the precedent of having people wear armor with ME1. If it was a Marvel game, I'd understand the point of the costumes, but since it's not... it's meh.

2. It looks more believable in general.

3. I'm no prude, but even I laughed at how ridiculous it was seeing Miranda fighting through a scrapyard of mercs and Krogan and Varren in her catsuit, while Shep and Garrus rocked the house in their armor right next to her. Contrast in personalities is great, but seeing that kind of contrast made me laugh. In other words, the personalized costumes failed to impart to me a sense that, "This is a squad of highly-trained, highly talented people". Instead, it just made me go WTF.

4. Kinetic Barriers wouldn't stop a Varren bite from ripping your arm apart, nor would they stop acid from mutilating your face or radiation (which eats shields for breakfast) from giving you a blistering rash.


Yeah, as long as each character looks personalized, I guess armor doesn't matter. Yeah. Doesn't matter that each character could concievably customize their own armor set; we just assume that Jack would never wear armor, so covering her up in some way would "ruin" her character. Yeah. Good point. *cough* <_<

You're not saying anything that i haven't already heard. I'm just not after die-hard realism and appreciate the direction taken with Mass Effect 2.

Like i said, in a team of 12 even pesonalised armour would get a little repetitive. I like that Mordin more closely resembles a doctor than a marine, and Thane a talented assassin.

I don't believe armour to be as important as a lot of you fundamentalists profess. The best way to survive a varren bite is to not get bit. When i was in the military we had a similar attitude to gunshots. 

I'm not against the idea of giving each member a sealable outfit for extra-planetory exploration or for traversing otherwise hazardous enviornments, but for me, the aesthetic takes precedence over practicality. 

And yes. Putting Thane, Jack or Samara in armour would betray their established characterisation.

[shep82]

 I agree 100% with   Val Seleznyov

Modifié par shep82, 05 février 2011 - 10:50 .

[Val Seleznyov]

shep82 wrote...

 I agree 100% with   Val Seleznyov

It's good to know that those of us who appreciated BioWare's decision to make the team members visually interesting are not totally outnumbered by the codex zealots.

Mash Mashington wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

The best way to survive a varren bite is to not get bit. When i was in the military we had a similar attitude to gunshots. 

oh my god

What?

Also, the Grey Warden shield under your avatar is a different colour to mine. I've noticed a few other members with your type of shield and have been meaning to find out if it is a special version of Dragon Age. Any light you could shed on the subject would be much appreciated.

[Babli]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

We get it dude.

[Val Seleznyov]

I must admit to not being at all familiar with the term "fan service".  So i just looked it up, and am a little confused.

If you could explain to me how dressing Mordin as a doctor, Samara a warrior monk and Thane an assassin is the same as "an uneccessary visual included simply because the fans want to see them", i'd be grateful.

Thanks.

Modifié par Val Seleznyov, 05 février 2011 - 11:12 .

[Babli]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I must admit to not being at all familiar with the term "fan service".  So i just looked it up, and am a little confused.

If you could explain to me how dressing Mordin as a doctor, Samara a warrior monk and Thane an assassin is the same as "an uneccessary visual included simply because the fans want to see them", i'd be grateful.

Thanks.

First, explain me how is armor for Miranda insult for women. I´m dying to know your reasoning. Amuse me please.

[Deebe]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
You're not saying anything that i
haven't already heard. I'm just not after die-hard realism and
appreciate the direction taken with Mass Effect 2.

Like i said,
in a team of 12 even pesonalised armour would get a little repetitive. I
like that Mordin more closely resembles a doctor than a marine, and
Thane a talented assassin.

I don't believe armour to be as
important as a lot of you fundamentalists profess. The best way
to survive a varren bite is to not get bit. When i was in the military
we had a similar attitude to gunshots. 

I'm not against the idea
of giving each member a sealable outfit for extra-planetory exploration
or for traversing otherwise hazardous enviornments, but for me, the
aesthetic takes precedence over practicality. 

And yes. Putting Thane, Jack or Samara in armour would betray their established characterisation.

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Also, the Grey Warden shield under your avatar is a different colour to
mine. I've noticed a few other members with your type of shield and have
been meaning to find out if it is a special version of Dragon Age. Any
light you could shed on the subject would be much appreciated.

I understand where you are coming from Val Seleznyov, but there must be some sort of compromise that has character style and doesn't cross the line; and tread on realism, practicality and the already created lore of the first game.
For Example I cannot see Jack in anytype of armor, but for others armors and helmets would work well. Armor can be stylized for characters without "betraying their personalities.




The grey warden shield ^above was for Dragon Age (pc) Ultimute edition----> right click the small icon and read the above url.

[Val Seleznyov]

Babli wrote...
First, explain me how is armor for Miranda insult for women. I´m dying to know your reasoning. Amuse me please.

By virtue of providing Miranda with only two catsuits in the base Mass Effect content, and by portraying her as a formidable operative, it is established that she can not only fight in a skin tight outfit while wearing high heels, but that she can do it incredibly well.

It's also established that Miranda likes to look good. She clearly takes pride in her appearance, which in conjunction with her trademark confidence adequately explains why she's willing to sacrifice a little bit of practicality on the battlefield in order to look the way that she wants to.

By pandering to the lesser tastes of the codex zealots, BioWare are essentially saying "No. You cannot be both feminine and tough and look pretty".

You can argue that femshep is both of those things, and for the most part i'd be inclined to agree, but you need to realise that there are many ways to be feminine. Miranda is feminine in a more traditional way to femshep... so perhaps giving her armour is only an insult to traditionally feminine women, but it's still not very cool.

Modifié par Val Seleznyov, 05 février 2011 - 11:36 .

[Babli]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Babli wrote...
First, explain me how is armor for Miranda insult for women. I´m dying to know your reasoning. Amuse me please.

By virtue of providing Miranda with only two catsuits in the base Mass Effect content, and by portraying her as a formidable operative, it is established that she can not only fight in a skin tight outfit while wearing high heels, but that she can do it incredibly well.

It's also established that Miranda likes to look good. She clearly takes pride in her appearance, which in conjunction with her trademark confidence adequately explains why she's willing to sacrifice a little bit of practicality on the battlefield in order to look the way that she wants to.

By pandering to the lesser tastes of the codex zealots, BioWare are essentially saying "No. You cannot be both feminine and tough and look pretty".

Bolded areas are where your arguments fails or are funny or both. I find your reasoning really weird and therefore I dont want to respond to it because you totally ignore common sense.

btw its funny that first pics I see on your blog are ****** and ass.

This exchange is over.

Modifié par Babli, 05 février 2011 - 11:48 .

[Val Seleznyov]

Babli wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Babli wrote...
First, explain me how is armor for Miranda insult for women. I´m dying to know your reasoning. Amuse me please.

By virtue of providing Miranda with only two catsuits in the base Mass Effect content, and by portraying her as a formidable operative, it is established that she can not only fight in a skin tight outfit while wearing high heels, but that she can do it incredibly well.

It's also established that Miranda likes to look good. She clearly takes pride in her appearance, which in conjunction with her trademark confidence adequately explains why she's willing to sacrifice a little bit of practicality on the battlefield in order to look the way that she wants to.

By pandering to the lesser tastes of the codex zealots, BioWare are essentially saying "No. You cannot be both feminine and tough and look pretty".

Bolded areas are where your arguments fails or are funny or both. I find your reasoning really weird and therefore I dont want to respond to it because you totally ignore common sense.

This exchange is over.

In other words: your English really is as poor as it seems and you didn't actually realise that you've been misusing the term "fan service" for so long.

And you make my blog sound so vulgar... it's a picture of video-gaming lovely Mad Moxxi.

Modifié par Val Seleznyov, 05 février 2011 - 11:50 .

[Babli]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Babli wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Babli wrote...
First, explain me how is armor for Miranda insult for women. I´m dying to know your reasoning. Amuse me please.

By virtue of providing Miranda with only two catsuits in the base Mass Effect content, and by portraying her as a formidable operative, it is established that she can not only fight in a skin tight outfit while wearing high heels, but that she can do it incredibly well.

It's also established that Miranda likes to look good. She clearly takes pride in her appearance, which in conjunction with her trademark confidence adequately explains why she's willing to sacrifice a little bit of practicality on the battlefield in order to look the way that she wants to.

By pandering to the lesser tastes of the codex zealots, BioWare are essentially saying "No. You cannot be both feminine and tough and look pretty".

Bolded areas are where your arguments fails or are funny or both. I find your reasoning really weird and therefore I dont want to respond to it because you totally ignore common sense.

This exchange is over.

In other words: your English really is as poor as it seems and you didn't actually realise that you've been misusing the term "fan service" for so long.

And now, quit it.