140 réponses à ce sujet

[thatguy212]

Xilizhra wrote...

MarchWaltz wrote...

Call Benson and Ice-T quick!

Wat?

Law and Order Special Victims Unit

[Seraphithan]

Slidell505 wrote...
That's not sexist, not even close it's hardwired into male DNA. Protect the women and children. Why the hell do you think we let them get off the boat first?

Wait, we don't do that to keep the sharks busy?

[Dean_the_Young]

Besides the whole lack of evidence that Nef is underage...





How much difference is there in a three-hundred year old Asari seducing a twenty year old, versus a fifteen year old?

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Besides the whole lack of evidence that Nef is underage...


How much difference is there in a three-hundred year old Asari seducing a twenty year old, versus a fifteen year old?

I'm complaining about the lesbian vampire stuff, not the underage stuff. I probably shouldn't have included it at all; I was putting it in as another way that the whole relationship only existed to make us hate Morinth as much as possible. Reread some of the earlier posts of mine.

[Dean_the_Young]

What's wrong with lesbian vampires?



After Twilight, some femme fatale vampirism towards girls is a nice change.

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What's wrong with lesbian vampires?

After Twilight, some femme fatale vampirism towards girls is a nice change.

Ack. Okay, here. An earlier post.

But that aside, it seems... shall we say, peculiar that the one asari/woman relationship we see in the games only exists to motivate us to kill one of the participants.

[jeweledleah]

Erinya is shown as grieving and you can convince her to see things fro ma different perspective. she's only mortal, she's allowed to be imperfect, especially after losing everyone she loves to alien species.



I feel like a lot of you guys are just being overly sensitive and nitpicky and to be honest, in a way I can see where you're coming from, I tend to feel overly sensitive when character or people I love get negative feedback and it can be difficult to just let it go. But no one is trying to create an impression that lesbianism is bad. if anything they are trying to reinforce the impression that asari are not exactly women and whatever relationship you have with them is not the conventional gay or straight one.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What's wrong with lesbian vampires?

After Twilight, some femme fatale vampirism towards girls is a nice change.

Ack. Okay, here. An earlier post.

But that aside, it seems... shall we say, peculiar that the one asari/woman relationship we see in the games only exists to motivate us to kill one of the participants.

Besides Liara/femShepard?

And the possible femShep/Samara?

And the numerous times we see see Asari talking with women on the Citadel?


We really don't have much of a pool of relationships to refer to. You're looking too deep into a puddle.

Nef's gender had far more to do with an emotional appeal to moe and innocence than any hidden homophobia. Innocent males as victims don't attract the same emotional reflex as innocent girls.

[Flamewielder]

jlb524 wrote...
You should know that doesn't matter, as there are plenty of straight women shown as not-xenophobic to balance that out.   There aren't any good asari loving other asari/other female aliens to balance out Morinth, Erinya, etc.

I was off topic to begin with, really... so I'll simply point out that the few humans we actually interact with in ME1 and 2 never actually express an opinion on the topic. I would also expect humans who travel to the Citadel are unlikely to be representative of the Earth-bound masses, or of colonists settled near batarian space or the Terminus systems. Ashley's stance on aliens (i.e. don't expect them to remain allies forever) may in fact be one shared by the majority of humans.

As I stated earlier, the writing of Nef as a young female artist made for a more poignant story; simply because it resonated with Samara being a mother and Morinth being Samara's daughter. Samara and Morinth can be viewed as the dark mirror image of Nef and her loving mother; one wishing her daughter was still alive, the other wishing her daughter's death. A male victim would not have resonated as much.

[Dean_the_Young]

Guys infatuated with Morinth come off like that guy who stops you at the club entrance talking about tickits: hormonal, superficial, adolescent, infatuated, narrow-sighted.

[Terraneaux]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Guys infatuated with Morinth come off like that guy who stops you at the club entrance talking about tickits: hormonal, superficial, adolescent, infatuated, narrow-sighted.

Whereas if a woman is infatuated with Morinth, it comes off as 'not her fault.'

Speaks to a larger problem in our society, but it's not exactly like Bioware has the ability to change that kind of sexism.  

[Marta Rio]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Besides Liara/femShepard?

And the possible femShep/Samara?

Yep.  Heck, the Liara/Shep relationship is pretty much all sunshine and puppies and rainbows at the end of LotSB. 

[naledgeborn]

Reading too much into it, I can turn around around and say that Jacob's loyalty mission is the most racist thing in video game history. But I don't, because it isn't supposed to be taken that way.

[Xilizhra]

Terraneaux wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Guys infatuated with Morinth come off like that guy who stops you at the club entrance talking about tickits: hormonal, superficial, adolescent, infatuated, narrow-sighted.

Whereas if a woman is infatuated with Morinth, it comes off as 'not her fault.'

Speaks to a larger problem in our society, but it's not exactly like Bioware has the ability to change that kind of sexism.  

They don't have to indulge in it themselves, however.

To be clear, I'm not angry at Bioware, just observing something that could have been done better.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Guys infatuated with Morinth come off like that guy who stops you at the club entrance talking about tickits: hormonal, superficial, adolescent, infatuated, narrow-sighted.

Whereas if a woman is infatuated with Morinth, it comes off as 'not her fault.'

Speaks to a larger problem in our society, but it's not exactly like Bioware has the ability to change that kind of sexism.  

They don't have to indulge in it themselves, however.

To be clear, I'm not angry at Bioware, just observing something that could have been done better.

Your proof that it is something malign comes entirely from moonbeams and over-inference.

Nef wasn't female because they're trying to condition people against lesbian relationships. Nef was female because females are more sympathetic. No bigotry implied.

[jeweledleah]

I have this bad feeling that if Nef was a boy, there would STILL be an issue. "how come they picked a male, what, a female cannot be attracted to asari? the only reason femshep is trying to get her attention is because of setting a trap! discriminating against lesbians, I say!"

[Xilizhra]

I have this bad feeling that if Nef was a boy, there would STILL be an issue. "how come they picked a male, what, a female cannot be attracted to asari? the only reason femshep is trying to get her attention is because of setting a trap! discriminating against lesbians, I say!"

Actually, that seems a bit less likely. One instance of something bad is easier to single out than a fog of instances of something mediocre.

Your proof that it is something malign comes entirely from moonbeams and over-inference.

And your proof that I think it was malign comes from you not reading the rest of the topic. I already stated that I didn't think Bioware was being malicious; I said that they were being clueless about this one thing.

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

I have this bad feeling that if Nef was a boy, there would STILL be an issue. "how come they picked a male, what, a female cannot be attracted to asari? the only reason femshep is trying to get her attention is because of setting a trap! discriminating against lesbians, I say!"

Um...no.

The problem is that they usually never do pick a female to be attracted to an asari except for this case.

Modifié par jlb524, 05 février 2011 - 11:03 .

[jeweledleah]

jlb524 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I have this bad feeling that if Nef was a boy, there would STILL be an issue. "how come they picked a male, what, a female cannot be attracted to asari? the only reason femshep is trying to get her attention is because of setting a trap! discriminating against lesbians, I say!"

Um...no.

The problem is that they usually never do pick a female to be attracted to an asari except for this case.

there are females chatting and sexy dancing with asari all over the place.  Aria has a stripper entertaining her.  I beleive both Emily Wong AND Kalissa have asari lovers.

there's ONE isntance of quasi relationship we see in the entire game (unless you count femshep/Liara) with more detail then just hints and its Morinth/Nef.  when you hada 50/50 choice of male or female.  should they have added a relationship JUST for the sake of political correctness isue that didn't even occured to them, I'm sure, untill people started reading too much into Morinth story?

Modifié par jeweledleah, 05 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

<_<
I swear some people will find anything to complain about. And this is from a guy who loves to complain. I mean it's not like ME1 and ME2 gives FemShep the option to sleep with an Asari... oh wait... it does on three occasions.

I'd bet my life that you'd see some similar complaint about sexism or whatever if Nef was a guy.

[jeweledleah]

oh yes, one more thing. this "relationship" Morinth has with Nef? its not a relationship, its predator stalking prey. its made clear several times that Morinth is not concerned with gender or species of her prey. she looks for artistic, vibrant personalities. she doesn't have sex with her victims - she drains them (incidentally Shai'ra and Liara do become lovers with you in physical sense - and they are both shown in positive light)

Morinth is not a representative of a lesbian relationship, she's not even a representative of an asari - quite the opposite.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 05 février 2011 - 11:16 .

[Xilizhra]

I swear some people will find anything to complain about. And this is from a guy who loves to complain. I mean it's not like ME1 and ME2 gives FemShep the option to sleep with an Asari... oh wait... it does on three occasions.

I never counted PC relationships because they're interchangeable between male and female Shepards.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jeweledleah wrote...

oh yes, one more thing. this "relationship" Morinth has with Nef? its not a relationship, its predator stalking prey. its made clear several times that Morinth is not concerned with gender or species of her prey. she looks for artistic, vibrant personalities. she doesn't have sex with her victims - she drains them (incidentally Shai'ra and Liara do become lovers with you in physical sense - and they are both shown in positive light)

Morinth is not a representative of a lesbian relationship, she's not even a representative of an asari - quite the opposite.

I wouldn't really call the fling with Shaira positive really. Since it only happens when Shepard expresses disapointment that his/her's reward didn't include sex.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Lizardviking wrote...
I wouldn't really call the fling with Shaira positive really. Since it only happens when Shepard expresses disapointment that his/her's reward didn't include sex.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Pimpmaster Shepard disagrees.
.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

ReconTeam wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
I wouldn't really call the fling with Shaira positive really. Since it only happens when Shepard expresses disapointment that his/her's reward didn't include sex.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Pimpmaster Shepard disagrees.
.

True dat!