52 réponses à ce sujet

[Xovian]

Skildron wrote...

I suspect that resting restrictions are especially used by those who like to balance the game in epic levels in favour of non spell casting characters - but that is only a wild guess.

Greetings
Skildron

In the early days of NWN scripting and player made modules, many players/builders hated the OC's  way of resting and wanted it to be a lot more restricted. Personally I think many of them went over board with how rest is handled. Entire areas being unusable because of rest restrictions is boring and for lower levels, game breaking for arcane casters. The worst offenders are the modules where resting can only happen in Inns...IMO.

If it was an attempt to balance melee vs casters it was not a well done attempt.
It simply swaps the "advantaged" class (in this case melee centric)  for the module or areas.

There is a happy medium, like the potions the above potion mentioned.
A simple onheartbeat script can ensure a player gets such items in a fair moderation with out being too little or too much. It's good to keep things fun, but not let things be too easy for any one class.

[Calgacus]

Balance is a tricky thing especially in multiplayer. But in single player when players can only cheat themselves I think the issue can be addressed this way - make a level or encounter such that a rested character will find it balanced and (in the case of a level) won't need to rest until it's finished assuming if they play well. Let them rest as often when they need to (maybe not in combat) - but rest enemies at the same time. Maybe each time a monster spawns in it can get rest effect? - so if a player leaves the area to rest and comes back in to finish off a weakened monster it turns out to be rested too? Just make each major encounter with a rested character in mind. Anyhoo just a thought.

As far as realism goes ( and how much is needed in a game about dragons and wizards?) just think of resting as a ritual and not as a nights sleep - or dole out rest potions/wands as treasure - each boss dropping one or two and a script can keep count of how many a pc has around if you don't want them piling up.



Skildron, I think I remember Lords of Darkness(which one are you playing?), is that the one with the tale of the Rock and the Bush. i don't think I finished it because a I got either bored or frustrated with a part in which kept getting killed by illithids. Maybe I'm thinking of Lords of Terror.

[HipMaestro]

jmlzemaggo wrote...
I want you to play a wizard forced to struggle for his life with nothing but a greatsword and see if it still sounds like a balance to you, after a couple of undeads dungeon levels... ;-)

Sounds like I would need to waste a feat on martial weapons but sounds like my kind of challenge... a naked wizard with only his trusty greatsword between him and the arch lich.  Sweet!

But seriously, isn't there automatically a bias in the standard rules with regen items but no "spell casting regen" items?  That's where D&D seems to have created its own unbalanced environment.  It should have mana and then resting is essentially removed entirely from the equation.  Leave resting to address negative effects, poisoning or some such time-related ailments and stay away from interfering with the actual mechanics of an entire class.

Stockpiling wands & scrolls are a default method to deal with limited rest opportunities.  Love those feats!

That said, the so-called balancing rest restrictions on PWs I play are all dealt with the same way in this household... go make a cup of coffee and/or fold some laundry.   Life is too brief to idle.

Modifié par HipMaestro, 08 février 2011 - 03:47 .

[Calgacus]

I just updated the Wand of Gather, it seemed to just not work if the npc had other actions on the top of his queue, if you try it out please let me know if it ever fails.

[Bubba McThudd]

Greetings all,



Some cool ideas are percolating in this thread. I would really like to see someone come up with a "mana potion" that would instantly restore all of a mages spells. Such an item might persuade me to release a "Director's Cut" of Agrenost with it included as a quest reward.



Apologies to the mage players who are experiencing frustrations in Agrenost; I usually play characters who wield swords, so I didn't really didn't have a frame of reference for spellcasters. Come to think of it, the first time I played a mod to completion as a mage was when I playtested Agrenost.



Having said that, there are many places for mages to rest in the mod: In addition to your quarters at the antiquaries guild there are 4 inns, 6 squats (semi-derilict buildings full of beggars) and 2 hidden rest areas in the dungeon.



Good to see the ingenuity of the players at work!

[Calgacus]

My Wand of mana was originally a Potion, but I decided to make a wand so I could so I could give it unlimited charges and make it easy to target others.

The only trouble with a Mana item is that the only way to refresh spells is the use a Rest effect which of course heals and removes certain effects as well as refreshing items usable only so many times a day (or does it? I should probably test that). With some fancy scripting much of that can be reapplied after a rest but maybe not all - like the item refreshing.

[Calgacus]

Just added a Wand of Cleaning made for players of the the mod Agrenost, so you don't have to keep going back to the baths to get clean after wandering the sewers before any merchants will deal with you. I hope it doesn't break any plots. Files up on the project page.

http://social.biowar...ect/4139/#files

[Calgacus]

Just added a Wand of Teleport made for players of mods with a lot of path finding problems such as hallways and alleyways crowded with commoners blocking your way.

Unzip to your override folder.

(backquote)`DebugMode 1 place your mouse pointer near your PCs feet and then (backquote)`dm_spawnitem wandofteleport

(backquote)`DebugMode 0

pick up wand and use it - click on wand then on your destination nearby (maybe 30 range or so).

It uses tag based scripting.

[jmlzemaggo]

Since you're at it, I do have a request Calgacus:

Could you make me 20 years old? Again. I wouldn't mind the wand either.
Thanks.

One of the most amazing features in NWN is kind of hiding in the OC.
It's about henchies: when your PC levels up, so do your henchy at the very same moment. But, if you took the precaution to fully undress him or strip her naked right before, once they gained the new level, they automatocally re-equip anything, from ring, armor to weapon, anything present in their inventory indeed, only according the best to their class, skills, feats and every aspect of their personnality, just like your familiar also does by the way, which is not only a big time saver, but, much more important, the best NWN school, especially for that new uneducated player I once was when first entering the OC, a "class room" where to learn which gloves or rapier would be the best suited for a rogue for instance.

But if you don't mind, the "Wand of Youth" could come first. I could easily go through life again, anytime. Starting right now.
Also, could you make it of unlimited use? You know?
Just in case...

In between, I will make sure adding those two new wands to your already Calgacus's magical bag in my list. (No vault addresses? I know, I'm such an old fart... Hey, actually, I never do. Those are only rumours, from some jaleous 20 years old guys I suppose.)

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 21 février 2011 - 08:04 .

[Calgacus]

jmlzemaggo wrote...
...
But if you don't mind, the "Wand of Youth" could come first. I could easily go through life again, anytime. Starting right now.
Also, could you make it of unlimited use? You know?

Workin on it now, will post here when done.

[jmlzemaggo]

 Thank you, son. I know you wouldn't let me down. You made an old timmer pride of mankind in his latest moments. About time...
But wait, those aren't my latest moments anymore, right?!
'better hide your women well, youngsters, jml is back.
"What the... ouch! Oh, okay darling, I'd turn the computer off? Yes! Okay, okay, anything for you, sweetheart..." 
*** gotta go  ***


( I just turned 53, only practicing... )

Thanks!

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 22 février 2011 - 08:04 .

[Calgacus]

Wand of Youth
Wasted your youth? Made some bad choices you'd love to take back? Pissed away time in college on bird courses or honing your sarcasm skill and reading D&D books? Now you can reclaim those skill points wasted on Taunt and Lore or even take a new class!! The Wand of Youth will let you relevel up all over again!
Quantities are limited so get'em while they last on the NWN1 Player Utilities project page (link in my sig).

Modifié par Calgacus, 23 février 2011 - 02:07 .

[jmlzemaggo]

 
"Made some bad choices you'd love to take back?" 
I have good news for you: you won't have to age. Since you obviously already learned  one of the major teachings of the sunset of life...

[Bubba McThudd]

"Wand of Cleaning" - I like it!



I had intended to make a potion called "perfume" to my Agrenost mod that had the same effect, but I couldn't figure out how to script it. A wand works - just tie a sponge to the end of it : )



With your permission, I'd like to add these items to the mod when I finally get around to releasing the "Directors Cut."

[jmlzemaggo]

I would surely replay it then! Good job, all of you.

[Calgacus]

Thanks guys.
Bubba, Yes of course you can add it whatever you want, I'll post the scripts up in the discussions.
PS, jml - 53?  is this you ?

Modifié par Calgacus, 25 février 2011 - 04:59 .

[Calgacus]

nevermind, this took a minute to appear so I added the PS to the above post. 

Modifié par Calgacus, 24 février 2011 - 04:23 .

[Bubba McThudd]

Excellent!



Would it be a real pain to make them potions instead of wands?



"BTW, in the mage path, in the search for the missing boatman quest, if a certain container is destroyed before it is looted the quest is broken."



I think I know what you are hinting at, but message/e-mail me with the details and I'll sort it out.





Thanks!

[jmlzemaggo]

 Yes, son! :innocent: 
Photoshop is my only "Wand of Youth" until yours comes up on the "market". I'm kidding, men like you and I look even better in aging. 'cause we don't age. We're improving.
Good idea by the way this "Wand of Cleaning". I took more showers in Bubba's world than in the real one my whole life. Bubba, you owe us some soap... 
The mage path used to be quite complicated there, before your magical sticks. Those kinds of restrictions can easily take the fun, the immersion, and even the story, away. Now, it's worth to take another trip in it. As I suppose your "specials" would work in any path of Bubba's game.
***Thinking of a cleric...***

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 24 février 2011 - 08:45 .

[Calgacus]

Bubba,

I put up a Potion of Mana.

Jml, yes I think all those items would work in the various paths of Agrenost. But I haven't tested any in any path other than mage.

[Calgacus]

Just updated the bigbagofholding and the utilities.erf. I think the problem some were having with the bigbagofholding was that the base item i used was from a hakpak (CEP 2.2 I think), so if you didn't have the hakpak installed, or maybe if you were using a mod that didn't use that hakpak, it couldn't find the needed resource. Sorry about that.
All the scripts are in the utilities.erf.

[jmlzemaggo]

You're very right, Lowlander, and increasing the fear is essential.
I see this wand of mana myself more like a solution to be used only when resting hasn't been evaluated fairly between spellcasters and melee PCs.

[Skildron]

Lowlander wrote...

Skildron wrote...
I suspect that resting restrictions are especially used by those who like to balance the game in epic levels in favour of non spell casting characters - but that is only a wild guess.

I suspect rest restriction is more about classic feel. I actually like them (A lot) as they increase the tension/fear. But I started playing D&D with pen and paper. It was always a big factor then, managing spells getting beat up and scrambling to survive long enough to find a place to patch up rest/restore.

In contrast I find all the mana pool games (Diablo/Dragon Age) to be more Fantasy Action games than RPGs and they don't interest me nearly as much.

I come from the pen and paper side, too. I never played D&D, though. Usually, I played and dm'ed "Das Schwarze Auge", a German RPG system. DSA uses a mana system for arcane spellcasters, but the mana replenishes very slowly - it will take up to a week for an arcane caster to regain his full mana points if he exhausted his pool completely. So a wizard has to be carefull with his spell use. Still, if a fighter of medium level goes pvp against a wizard of equal level, he will die if the player of the wizard character knows what he is doing. If a fighter wants to win, he has to haunt the wizard beforehand and keep him from his nightly sleep. That's were my suspicions regarding rest restrictions come from.

Greetings
Skildron

Modifié par Skildron, 08 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[Bubba McThudd]

Greetings all,

I want to add Calgacus items to my mod via a hak and add them to a store's inventory, but I'm having difficulty. Can someone walk me through the process? I have added his data to a hak using nwhak, added the hak to the mod. What do I do next - I'm a bit rusty.