81 réponses à ce sujet

[samurai crusade]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

While this would be time consuming, my hope is that they have a party replacement system. If a party member did not die on the suicide mission, they stay with. If they died, they get a replacement. example if tali died, have kal reeger take her place.

Except Kal Reeger can be killed if you take to long to stop the Collosus.   But I know what you mean and that's what I'm hoping for as well... a Wrex/Wreav sort of thing.        Tali gets another Quarian. Garrus gets another Turian, Maybe we get Kolyat or Feron instead of Thane... so on.   And you can insert random human 1-5 for the others.... Maybe we get Gillian Grayson if Jack is killed?        I like the idea of thinking I didn't waste my time getting to know these characters.

That said... I'm willing to accept Cameos as long as they are well written and worthy... perhaps they take on stations in the Normandy since shep will probably replace the Cerberus crew (if they died or if he leaves Cerberus).   So long as I get a memorable dialogue.

[Lunatic LK47]

LordofRogues wrote...

Please, c'mon you guys. For how many years has Bioware been creating great, captivating games? Let's pretend now that Bioware is God and go by the motto, "In Bioware we trust!"

They won't disappoint their fans.

Tell that to the fans that felt everything they did in the first game was a waste of time when they wanted to see the after-effects in part 2. As far as I remember, everyone got pissed at Ash and Kaidan's cameo treatment even before the game got released and newsflash, I'm one of them, despite not being a big fan of those two characters.

[Wittand25]

Phaedon wrote...
What you said is only applicable to the LI part. And I beg to differ, a lot of people replayed ME1 to save Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex this time. How does an import choice drive away new customers and why should the old customers feel irritated for their favourite characters returning?

New customers get less character interaction, and are presented with a cast that has fully developed relationships with Sheppard making it harder for them to connect with their squad, even more so if ME3 starts where ME2 left off without another time jump.
The irritation for old players would come from the fact that by necessity most of the character development of ME2 would have to be reset for ME3 for both resource (look at the amazing difference that importing had on Garrus´personality) and story reasons (If Tali would have rememberd Shepard from ME1 and act on it, her behavior and subsequently any part of the plot that deals with her would have needed to be handled differently depending on it)

Nope. And their fanboys are significantly lesser than most of the rest of the characters'.

Prior to ME2 Wrex had more fanboys than Garrus. But fanboys have a notorious short and inaccurate memory and of course all without an import never even meet Wrex.

But the forums have still not calmed down about the smallest changes!

Normal bickering as it is expected and unavoidable on a game forum. Real nerd rage does not happen right now and even if it starts nerd rage is very short lived and usually does not last longer than a fortnight, so there is no reason for the developers to be scared by it as long as they are careful to reveal anything rage worthy a couple of months before the game´s release.
A way bigger danger is trying to fulfill unrealistic fanboy fantasies and ending up with a product that suffers for it. Fanboys are after all only a tiny minority of the consumer base and good reviews by press and by average gamers is far more important for sales than pleasing rabid fanboys.

[Crocodiles]

I just want Samara and Jack to make it into the squad roster, and the rest is just filler for me.

[Dexi]

Wittand25 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
What you said is only applicable to the LI part. And I beg to differ, a lot of people replayed ME1 to save Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex this time. How does an import choice drive away new customers and why should the old customers feel irritated for their favourite characters returning?

New customers get less character interaction, and are presented with a cast that has fully developed relationships with Sheppard making it harder for them to connect with their squad, even more so if ME3 starts where ME2 left off without another time jump.
The irritation for old players would come from the fact that by necessity most of the character development of ME2 would have to be reset for ME3 for both resource (look at the amazing difference that importing had on Garrus´personality) and story reasons (If Tali would have rememberd Shepard from ME1 and act on it, her behavior and subsequently any part of the plot that deals with her would have needed to be handled differently depending on it)

Nope. And their fanboys are significantly lesser than most of the rest of the characters'.

Prior to ME2 Wrex had more fanboys than Garrus. But fanboys have a notorious short and inaccurate memory and of course all without an import never even meet Wrex.

But the forums have still not calmed down about the smallest changes!

Normal bickering as it is expected and unavoidable on a game forum. Real nerd rage does not happen right now and even if it starts nerd rage is very short lived and usually does not last longer than a fortnight, so there is no reason for the developers to be scared by it as long as they are careful to reveal anything rage worthy a couple of months before the game´s release.
A way bigger danger is trying to fulfill unrealistic fanboy fantasies and ending up with a product that suffers for it. Fanboys are after all only a tiny minority of the consumer base and good reviews by press and by average gamers is far more important for sales than pleasing rabid fanboys.

I pretty much agree with this... 

I don't think they'll do a replacement system, because it is A LOT of work... Just think about it... All the VOs and scenarios for ME2 teammates, but double, for each character and its replacement. 

For business, from almost all points of interest and view, most ME2 chars go cameos and we get a new squad.

[Phaedon]

Wittand25 wrote...
New customers get less character interaction, and are presented with a cast that has fully developed relationships with Sheppard making it harder for them to connect with their squad, even more so if ME3 starts where ME2 left off without another time jump.

I don't understand what you mean there. They get the same that the old customers will get.

The irritation for old players would come from the fact that by necessity most of the character development of ME2 would have to be reset for ME3 for both resource (look at the amazing difference that importing had on Garrus´personality) and story reasons (If Tali would have rememberd Shepard from ME1 and act on it, her behavior and subsequently any part of the plot that deals with her would have needed to be handled differently depending on it)

So, they would rather restart character development with older characters than newer? The basic character development still exists, for example for Tali it would be (LI, Exiled or not, suggestion to the Quarians etc) while for Garrus it would be (LI, Killed Sidonis or not, etc)

Prior to ME2 Wrex had more fanboys than Garrus. But fanboys have a notorious short and inaccurate memory and of course all without an import never even meet Wrex.

That may have to do with Garrus having NO personality in ME1.

Normal bickering as it is expected and unavoidable on a game forum. Real nerd rage does not happen right now and even if it starts nerd rage is very short lived and usually does not last longer than a fortnight, so there is no reason for the developers to be scared by it as long as they are careful to reveal anything rage worthy a couple of months before the game´s release.
A way bigger danger is trying to fulfill unrealistic fanboy fantasies and ending up with a product that suffers for it. Fanboys are after all only a tiny minority of the consumer base and good reviews by press and by average gamers is far more important for sales than pleasing rabid fanboys.

This is normal bickering? 
I have played much more flawed games, and there was fight over imbalance, characters etc, but it was not that bad! 

Dexi wrote...
I pretty much agree with this... 

I don't think they'll do a replacement system, because it is A LOT of work... Just think about it... All the VOs and scenarios for ME2 teammates, but double, for each character and its replacement. 

For business, from almost all points of interest and view, most ME2 chars go cameos and we get a new squad.

Re-read my posts. I consider a replacement system to be as stupid as erasing ME2 as a game and starting all over again with new characters.

Modifié par Phaedon, 06 février 2011 - 11:28 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

That may have to do with Garrus having NO personality in ME1.

Garrus had more personality in ME1 than in ME2, but then he became an adept of the Church of Shepard...

Would you believe me, if I told you that Garrus finished ME1 as my favorite squadmate?

[Ahriman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Garrus had more personality in ME1 than in ME2, but then he became Batman...

Fixed. He just has nothing to say in ME2.

"Arrrggh! Revenge!"
*loyalty mission*
"I'm just a lone kitty" (for FemShep) or "Can it wait fot a bit... (for MShep).

It's better to let character go if his story was already told instead of resuscitation just because fans demand it.

[Rasputin]

Sidney wrote...

Not a bad breakdown. Zaaeed and Kasumi are DLC types to so they aren't even core.

Mordin is less than 50-50 because in addition to lack of purpose he has such high odds of death (relatively speaking) on the SM - never mind Mordin survives actual mission at a much higher rate the Garrus. Love Mordin but don't expect him to be back.

In the end I think the only folks who "have" to make it into ME3, if they survived, are Tali and Garrus since they are long-standing holdovers from ME1.

I agree EXCEPT... dont forget Liara! She is also a long - standing holdover!  (And possible love interest for those of us who are adventerous!)  I really hope Garrus, Liara and Tali are back on the team for ME3!!

[Sidney]

Crocodiles wrote...

I just want Samara and Jack to make it into the squad roster, and the rest is just filler for me.

Too easy for Samara to not make it if you kill her for Morinth - which BTW allows for super cheese moments with dominate.

[Glorious_Leader]

sth128 wrote...

I bet at the beginning of ME3, a Reaper blows up Normandy 2 along with every squad member. Only Shepard, Joker, and EDI's AI core survive.

Then you spend the rest of the game fighting reapers with only your miniature giant space hamster, who will be instrumental in defeating all Reapers by GOING FOR THE EYES!!!

YES.  REND THEIR FLESH, BOO!  I want Boo either as a squadmate, or an equippable for Shepard.

Also, sth, you made me lol.  And for that, I commend you.

And on one last note, I would happily kill Samara in the SM if it meant I could replace her with the Krogasari bartender from Illium.  Who very well may have been my favorite character from Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Glorious_Leader, 06 février 2011 - 02:54 .

[kalle90]

SalsaDMA wrote...

kalle90 wrote...
 They really should have focused on consistency and written the entire trilogy at once with all the possibilities.

Newsflash: They wrote the games from the start off as a trilogy. ME3's storyline was already planned before the first stroke of code was done on ME2.

This is ofc in broad perspective, as details will always be prone to changes during development, but the overall outline and major impacting events were outlined from the start off.

But my point were those details, the variables. Sure, Bioware and EA don't have infinite budget but they could have focused better. Use the original 6 squadmates from ME1 well in ME2 and then add maybe another 3-6 squadmates to freshen it up

The problem is the redunancy, Bioware doesn't want to focus on stuff only some players get. IMO that means the concept of ME has failed though. Migrating characters from 1 game to another doesn't feel as good as it could when there are so few available paths and consequences

[ME_Fan]

Well to survive ME2 you had to have at least one other teammate who survived, also wrex might be dead or is too busy with clans, Liara is too busy fighting shadow broker or (spoilers! won't say), so add that 1 teammate to Ashley/Kaidan, and there is you're starting ME3 squad, unless of course, more survived. I guess as long as you survived, every player will have at least 2 squadmates. But I imagine if the others survived they will of course be part of your team.

[Zeke01231]

I don't see bioware having to cater to people who let the team die on the SM..all they have to provide is a big enough team to finish the game and if the miss out on the other teammates "Content" o well..they will add some new faces I'm sure but I just don't see the next game being recruitment based but more main story based so the reality is that all those people will be "missing" is some variety on their team and a few sidequest.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Garrus had more personality in ME1 than in ME2, but then he became an adept of the Church of Shepard...

Would you believe me, if I told you that Garrus finished ME1 as my favorite squadmate?

Knowing your taste, yes. 


Oh and do explain how the shady figure calibrating the Mako had more personality.

Modifié par Phaedon, 06 février 2011 - 06:36 .

[Scimal]

Dexi wrote...

 I was thinking... 
Since all your party can die, we'll probably never see the guys from ME2 in ME3... And if we do, they'll be there just like ME1 party members were in ME2... 

Also, I'm fearing worse that some of the characters will never be in ME3... Like Legion. Because you can turn him over to Cerberus... Or Grunt, which you can leave him in his tank... 

If that's the case... It kinda makes me sad ( carepointz??)... 

Any opinions? 

Wouldn't be surprised. Out of all of your partymembers, who actually says they'll stick around after the Collectors go down?

Most give you a, "After this is done, I'm going to blah blah blah" speech at some point. Samara wants to return to Omega, Saieed is going after his man, etc.

Plus, as you said, the SM outcome isn't always the friendliest.

To me, it looks like they're setting up Garrus, Liara, Tali, Grunt, Legion, and maybe Jacob or Jack to go forwards in ME3, with the rest of your SR2 crew helping you out on specific missions. Ash/Kaidan may rejoin you if you went Paragon at the end, while the rest are generally either filling a necessary role (meat shield / tech specialist) or are LI's that have a vested interest in following Shepard. I don't count Miranda with them because she's loyal to Cerberus and Cerberus only (read her LM, you gain her respect - not her loyalty).

This is a good thing, though. The fewer characters there are, the better the character development given the release date.

[Scimal]

Glorious_Leader wrote...

And on one last note, I would happily kill Samara in the SM if it meant I could replace her with the Krogasari bartender from Illium.  Who very well may have been my favorite character from Mass Effect 2.

The minute I talked to her I wanted her on my team. I agree, she was probably my favorite character from ME2's NPCs, tying with Mordin. Very well done.

Every time I need a laugh I go back to her. Garrus and Mordin are occasionally funny (Mordin in particular), but while their humor is false bravado and dry wit, the Krogasari gal was much more vibrant.

I couldn't breathe for a while after the whole "...laughed the blue off my ass" line passed.

[Vena_86]

I'd rather have a completely new but fleshed out crew than everyone who survived as bland squad mates that never interact with each other and the world. What is the point of having like 16 or more squad mates that look like your pals but act even more like zombies during missions as the 12 in ME2 and have less individual dialogue.



I actually hope everyone who survived will play an important role for the story and help defeat the reapers, but as allies, not squad mates.

[kalle90]

Scimal wrote...
This is a good thing, though. The fewer characters there are, the better the character development given the release date.

True. That also kicks out our preferences and choices, which is why I bought ME in the first place. It's like when I tried to "recruit" Liara in the end of LOTSB. No matter what I said she just said no and I felt like there really was no choice here at all.

For example Samara didn't really know why she was recruited. After seeing the collectors and hearing that Reapers are actually invading I doubt she can just go "Ok now I'm going to bring justice to those unlawful Asaris bye". That would be just as bad as the Ash/Kaidan cameo. I can only see Mordin and Tali doing more good outside of my team than in it.

Thing is that this is the final stand so I don't really expect the old characters to have groundbreaking reveals with novel length dialogues and complex personal missions (and I expect 5 being the very maximum of newcomers). I rather have them do their part in stopping Reapers, with Shepard if that's my preference, with their dialogue consisting mostly of casual info, encouragement and possible flirt on and off-Normandy. Now's the time for lines like "What you think of our chances?" and not for "I'd like to know more about you". Make the characters represent themselves during gameplay like they do in Gears of War, Resident Evil and Half Life

It's a shame it has come to this, but IMO the question is now options vs depth and I have to say Bioware should focus on options. Bring in all the possible outcomes from past even if that means every character gets less dialogue and personal time. Of course given that Bioware wants to make ME3 work standalone it's likely they focus on depth

[Sidney]

kalle90 wrote...
It's a shame it has come to this, but IMO the question is now options vs depth and I have to say Bioware should focus on options. Bring in all the possible outcomes from past even if that means every character gets less dialogue and personal time. Of course given that Bioware wants to make ME3 work standalone it's likely they focus on depth

Depth > breadth. I can't fathom any other take on it. Who cares if you can mix n' match whatever cobbled together group you want if they don't have anything to say and no story to support them. I want to feel the drama and humor in these characters. It isn't like if you went from ME2 # of characters to DAO # of characters you've gotten so thin on breadth that you are choiceless.

[N7Infernox]

I doubt Bioware would just sweep the old squaddies under the rug.

I could imagine them allowing you to 'rerecruit' some old squadmates if they survive the first two games (wihout the hastle of having to do a mission for each of them). If you lost most of your squad, or haven't played ME1/ME2, there will be other all-new squadmate options that you can recruit upon doing missions.

This way, old/new squadmates could effect the story differently depending on whether or not they are directly working with you, were not/never recruited, or are dead.

[kalle90]

Sidney wrote...

kalle90 wrote...
It's a shame it has come to this, but IMO the question is now options vs depth and I have to say Bioware should focus on options. Bring in all the possible outcomes from past even if that means every character gets less dialogue and personal time. Of course given that Bioware wants to make ME3 work standalone it's likely they focus on depth

Depth > breadth. I can't fathom any other take on it. Who cares if you can mix n' match whatever cobbled together group you want if they don't have anything to say and no story to support them. I want to feel the drama and humor in these characters. It isn't like if you went from ME2 # of characters to DAO # of characters you've gotten so thin on breadth that you are choiceless.

I didn't say that. Just that the time of casual exploration is over, even moreso for the people we already know. Currently they barely talk in-game (though you could make them talk in ME1) and that's one easy and less consuming thing to do. In most action games the allies frequently talk about the environment and events which makes them seem alive (and they don't die 500 times like in ME2). On the other hand we have Codex for encyklopediacic info (new teammate dossiers could also be more thorough)

The actual conversations should revolve around the Reaper threat and the mission and not wander to "I had a tough childhood so lets dwell on that for multiple sittings". The characters could still show emotion and humor when they're worried about people dying or looking forward to kick some ass. Some flirt is also easily included. Personal missions could be introduced briefly too with Tali going "Shepard, the Flotilla is under attack we must do something" without going trivial follow-up questions like "Do you think it's serious?"

Atleast to me it will feel clunky as hell if I'm simply told that Samara and Thane left but Jacob stayed although I wanted him to get the hell out. It already did in ME2 when the old crew was displaced here and there with short cameos and I became a Cerberus operative and were forced to recruit some weirdoes. It sure didn't feel like as if I had continued right where my ME1 experience left off.

It doesn't matter if my crew has the depth of an ocean if I feel they're the wrong bunch

[Lunatic LK47]

Scimal wrote...



I don't count Miranda with them because she's loyal to Cerberus and Cerberus only (read her LM, you gain her respect - not her loyalty).

Hello McFly, anybody home?! Miranda can resign if you blew up the Collector base.

[Cru Hunter]

I think some characters should stay out of ME3, depending on your actions in the previous games. If you've sold Legion to Cerberus, by all means the punishment should be that you hear of him, but won't see him. Why should you? You sold him to a heartless faction.

[JediMB]

Scimal wrote...

Glorious_Leader wrote...

And on one last note, I would happily kill Samara in the SM if it meant I could replace her with the Krogasari bartender from Illium.  Who very well may have been my favorite character from Mass Effect 2.

The minute I talked to her I wanted her on my team. I agree, she was probably my favorite character from ME2's NPCs, tying with Mordin. Very well done.

Every time I need a laugh I go back to her. Garrus and Mordin are occasionally funny (Mordin in particular), but while their humor is false bravado and dry wit, the Krogasari gal was much more vibrant.

I couldn't breathe for a while after the whole "...laughed the blue off my ass" line passed.

That could get awkward. Especially for a Liara-romancing Shepard.