361 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I don't find that particularly odd. Wynne is trying to kill the Warden. Maybe Alistair should try to talk her down but what is he supposed to do in this situation? He can't let the Warden die or he'll be the only Warden in Ferelden and it's already looking pretty bleak. Would it be better for him to stand around and wait to see which of you kils the other?

Not that it matters much.  Three seconds tops + Manaclash and the old bag is dead on the tower floor.  Problem solved.  Wynne really is a terrible mage.  Morrigan is a much better and more solid NPC support mage.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 10 février 2011 - 03:30 .

[Addai]

Carmen_Willow wrote...
Secondly, with regard to Wynne's supposed "cougaring" of Alistair in RTO......I didn't see it that way. Al started it with his snarky comments about her age. Women of a certain age may have grey hair, and wrinkled skin, but in their hearts and souls they are still the 18 year old hottie they always were. I think Wynne said those things to Al to jerk him around a little and to remind him that she was still a woman. I think she's entitled....after all, look how she's kept her figure all these years. I totally think Alistair got what he deserved in that encounter, and he will think twice the next time he infers that some woman is "old."

So she got a little prickly about her age- when she herself goes on and on about it- on the occasion of your party revisiting the site where all the Grey Wardens of Ferelden died and a lot of other people besides, including Alistair's father figure and the only living blood relative he had whom you are about to bury?  Sorry, but that just confirms my opinion that she's so full up in herself that whether she intends it or not, she ends up being a pretty horrible person.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 février 2011 - 03:36 .

[ObserverStatus]

I'll stop being mean to Wynne when she stops her lecturing! I can't even whip out the murder knife without getting a tongue lashing from her.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...
Secondly, with regard to Wynne's supposed "cougaring" of Alistair in RTO......I didn't see it that way. Al started it with his snarky comments about her age. Women of a certain age may have grey hair, and wrinkled skin, but in their hearts and souls they are still the 18 year old hottie they always were. I think Wynne said those things to Al to jerk him around a little and to remind him that she was still a woman. I think she's entitled....after all, look how she's kept her figure all these years. I totally think Alistair got what he deserved in that encounter, and he will think twice the next time he infers that some woman is "old."

So she got a little prickly about her age- when she herself goes on and on about it- on the occasion of your party revisiting the site where all the Grey Wardens of Ferelden died and a lot of other people besides, including Alistair's father figure and the only living blood relative he had whom you are about to bury?  Sorry, but that just confirms my opinion that she's so full up in herself that whether she intends it or not, she ends up being a pretty horrible person.

The Loghain and Wynne conversations are an interesting contrast to the Alistair and Wynne convos, especially the RtO moments.

[IanPolaris]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Loghain and Wynne conversations are an interesting contrast to the Alistair and Wynne convos, especially the RtO moments.

Yeah, we hear about Circle Mage Battle prowesss and bravery in action, i.e. "About Face!  Double-Time 'forward' march!"

Apparently the circle was almost worse than useless at Ostagar (which is amazing considering the impact one properly trained battlemage just out of apprenticeship could do...but Irving almost certainly bent the rules about what sorts of magic you were and weren't allowed to learn).  I don't think most Circle Mages under the rank of Senior Enchanter are permitted to use fireball *for example).

-Polaris

[Sarah1281]

Interestingly enough you don't lose approval with Alistair if Wynne attacks first in the Tower, as opposed to if you attack first.

Well of course not. Self-defence at all.

Wynne was the only NPC who took time to find out how I was doing emotionally, what I was feeling.

I took that differently. While she was the only one to ask, she also immediately told you how everything in your past was over because you're a GW now and that's all that mattered. It's like she's asking about you so she can understand more fully how best to tell you how to live your life.

I totally think Alistair got what he deserved in that encounter, and he will think twice the next time he infers that some woman is "old."

Honestly, I wouldn't be bothered at all but that encounter if it didn't take place at freaking Ostagar, the place where hundreds if not thousands of good men were massacred and where Wynne claims that she's lost a great deal. That was probably the least appropriate place for this to happen and it's not even a 'well, that banter triggered at an inopportune time' thing as it was written solely for Ostagar. A little solemnity and respect would be nice.

The Maker did not transform them into darkspawn. The Trevinter mages looked to usurp heaven, and thus found out a way into the golden city. Then because they entered the city while they were still alive they were corrupted and transformed into darkspawn and the golden city was destroyed. The chantry teaches that its man that brought the darkspawn into the world, not the maker.

First, try to remember that its not even canon whether the Maker is real or not. Also...the Golden City was supposedly created by the Maker. If the mages turned into darkspawn upon entering it then that's kind of on the Maker for making his city turn people into darkspawn. And how the hell did those mages get back to Thedas, huh? I'm going with 'the Maker.'

[Sarah1281]

Dude its mythology, calm down.



Pretty much all fantasy games imploy some strange mythology to their gods. And DA seems to let the player believe in the Maker or not, its not suppoused to be canon.

Don't tell me to calm down. I'm far more annoyed by the implication that I'm worked up than I was by the fact that you were treating it as fact.



Most games let you know whether the mythology is true. This game is unusual in that for every single possible evidence of the Maker there's also a non-Maker explanation. The player can believe or not believe but you're stating the Chantry's story as if it were a fact.

[HighMoon]

I think someone should create a new Wynne appreciation thread. And this time, it can be closely monitored by the moderators if things start getting too ugly. I think each character (or companion at least) deserves their own appreciation thread, no matter how many haters they may have.

[Sarah1281]

The moderators don't really come to the DA:O forums anymore and even if they did, talking about Wynne (negative or not) would not be OT even in a Wynne gush thread.

[LobselVith8]

The Water God wrote...

Also I think that the archdemons are proof enough that the Maker banishing the seven old gods is actually true. As according to awakening. The link between the darkspawn and the seven old gods remain, presuming that the fall of the magisters actually occured.

I don't think their existance supports the Tevinter view that they're gods or the Chantry's claims about the Maker. Even the Dalish have myths about banished gods.

[antigravitycat]

IanPolaris wrote...
Wynne really is a terrible mage.  Morrigan is a much better and more solid NPC support mage.

-Polaris

Err, nonsense.
Every companion has a use. A mage can be played in many ways, it depends how you skill them. Though Morrigan's predisposition is very different, with shapeshifter etc. Make her a hexer or a tank if you like. But Wynne is definitely the best support you can get. You get many spells from the creation tree and with that can make your fighters true panzers. At her dispositon many healing spells, and she has the unmatched plot spell. When you need a healer, she is best. And she has lots of tactic slots. Very nice!
Depends very much on how you play, how you skill and how you party is setup.

This bashing is getting more and more ridiculous.


edit: had to correct a word, english isn't that easy for me sometimes

Modifié par antigravitycat, 10 février 2011 - 09:29 .

[Bahlgan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Templars do participate in the battle even if mages are spared; you see one after the Archdemon has been killed in the background of Bann Tegan seeing the explosion of light at Fort Frakon.

But you cannot control them.

There is the issue that she makes no argument to save them if KC Greagoir decides to anul the Circle; she never tries to stop Greagoir to save the mages.

You're missing an important fact: Wynne was not present at the party when you met Greagoir. Doors are sealed after you exit the front room and venture into the first of hallways. How could Wynne try to stop Greagoir if the two aren't in the same room?

Considering that Wynne can be argued to be an abomination by some (certainly the Chantry and the templars would regardless of what the devs say is technically true), I find it irritating that she would bring this up after the Warden helps save the Circle in the discussion with Greagoir. She certainly doesn't come forward to reveal she was saved by a spirit, after all.

Wynne never asked to be saved by the spirit. The spirit arrived to her ailing, whether she liked it or not (I imagine she appreciated it). You made a statement earlier saying she's a hypocrite that she hates abominations and yet she is one; choice makes a difference, and apparently it was never her's to make in the first place. She sacrificed her life for the children mages, and more than likely expected to stay dead rather than borrow spiritual life force.

Or an abomination, which Wynne considers herself to be unless convinced to look at it from another angle - mainly, her remaining humanity.

Is she an abomination? I was under the impression that an abomination is the union between a mortal entity and a demon, not a spirit. Doesn't say anything about a spirit. And yes I do consider both to be different, for I am certain the game lore does as well. And no, she just became an "abomination", she still would retain her mentality, unlike Flemeth, who had been one for Maker knows how long... Besides, spirits do not seek dominion.

Blood magic isn't prohibited for Wardens. Given Wynne's constant claims and sermons about the Wardens and putting forth her opinion as fact, she should realize this.

I understand this. but with the situation at hand, perhaps the last thing needed to be used is yet more blood magic. Sort of like the last thing we need after receiving a ton of healing is more healing.. Just isn't all that necessary. 

Wrong. We have no evidence demonology steams from blood magic at all. And theories aren't facts; the flying spaghetti monster could have given knowledge of blood magic to mages, but speculation isn't proof.

Avernus? Pretty much every blood mage in the tower? How about the Mad Hermit? Uldred? And it's no theory, demons DID teach the life forms of Thedas to practice this ancient magic. If you look on the wiki, the saying that demons taught them this magic isn't placed under the first heading, where I see no third person opinionated tones in the reading.

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Blood_mage

If the Warden does side with the templars then I can more easily forgive Wynne for ratting you out. She has nothing to be thankful to you for, after all. It's only a Warden who is the only reason the mages are still alive (as you tell Wynne that Greagoir is waiting for backup before killing/imprisoning them all) that Wynne owes far more to than to immediately rat them out to templars

Perhaps she believes the Warden is either a greater threat to her and all she represents, or at least a more immediate threat, than even the Archdemon himself. Isn't exactly a smart thing to do, but then again people tend to do "not-smart" things when they are pushed into a corner. I am sure that everyone does this, Wynne is no different to deserve the gallows for what she did than say... Loghain? Alistair? Sten? Jesus, Sten..... Killing a family of farmers..

Some spy if they can't even keep their blood magic hidden and the idea of a Warden blood magic spy doesn't really make any sense. The Warden was already out of the Tower and out of the power of the templars. Wynne might suspect that that thing with Jowan was a set-up but in what possible way could Uldred's rebellion benefit the Warden even if they are a blood mage? It just makes recruiting troops more of a pain (unless I guess the Warden hated the Circle and wanted to see it destroyed or thought templars would be more useful in which case they wouldn't have gone the saving it route) and being force to use blood magic in the same building as a sizeable force of templars isn't going to be anybody's first choice. If Wynne saw the Warden use blood magic to stop the other blood mages and demons and save everything Wynne holds dear and thought that somehow this was a bad thing and proved that the Warden couldn't be trusted then that makes her seem delusional.

I am sure he/she was a formiddable spy for it to take Wynne until the cleansing of the tower before she realized it. She certainly didn't notice it first thing. As far as your Uldred comment, I am not sure where you are going with this, I did not mention siding with Uldred. I never did say Wynne was perfect, but again, the last thing I am sure anyone wants to see in an event full of blood mages is yet another blood mage. The only other defense I would have to add is that the scripting and dialogue options were poorly constructed... Should have been a persuasion option to allow Wynne to see that sometimes one must fight fire with fire I suppose.

Modifié par Bahlgan, 10 février 2011 - 10:02 .

[Aeowyn]

She's the one who claims it's a spirit. For all we know it could be a demon

[Bahlgan]

Aeowyn wrote...

She's the one who claims it's a spirit. For all we know it could be a demon

Don't you think her personal spell would be a tad bit more sadistic than Vessel of the Spirit if she was united by a demon? Her aura does not give it off by any means? Besides, Rarely, or perhaps never, have I seen any demons heal, and even if so, still not to the degree Wynne offers within sanctuary.

But if that doesn't convince you, I suggest we could either ask devs, or maybe wait until she might be mentioned as a screaming, gaping, lunatic, demonic gutterslime in the second installment.

[PanosSmirnakos]

I liked Wynne, she is a deep character with an interesting back-story. She reminded me of a female version of Gandalf. But one of the main reasons I liked her more was her voice actress. Her voice fits perfectly with her in-game character model and her personality. IMO she and Sten have valid questions about how ready and mature the main warden is to handle the situation of a blight and lead / unite the people of Ferelden.

[ejoslin]

PanosSmirnakos wrote...

I liked Wynne, she is a deep character with an interesting back-story. She reminded me of a female version of Gandalf. But one of the main reasons I liked her more was her voice actress. Her voice fits perfectly with her in-game character model and her personality. IMO she and Sten have valid questions about how ready and mature the main warden is to handle the situation of a blight and lead / unite the people of Ferelden.

What are Wynne's concerns based on?  In what way has the warden shown themselves to be anything but ready and willing and working towards ending the blight?  Exactly what have they done to show themselves NOT mature and unable to unite the people?

I mean, I honestly don't get this.  There is nothing in game that shows the warden wavering or not living up to their duties at all.

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
What are Wynne's concerns based on?  In what way has the warden shown themselves to be anything but ready and willing and working towards ending the blight?  Exactly what have they done to show themselves NOT mature and unable to unite the people?

Her concerns are probably based on a more realistic concept of how a very young person shouldering a lot of responsibility without having the experience or training to do so might be inclined, as opposed to the incredible, fantastic, super-intelligent, plot-armour-protected, charismatic, highly skilled, uber-powerful, flawless, omniscient pinnacle of awesome that is The Warden.

[sevalaricgirl]

The difference between Sten and Wynne is that after you prove yourself to Sten he admits that you are a powerful warrior even for being young. I don't get that from Wynne. You'll always be a child in her eyes and she knows how powerful you are as a mage because you were "Irving's star pupil". You completed the harrowing faster than any other apprentice and you cleared out the abominations in the tower, she was little help to my mage since she was on the floor unconscious even though I was a healer and maintained Alistair and Morrigan throughout the battle. Morrigan is a stronger mage than Wynne as a fighter. I make them all arcane warriors. They each start with their specialization and then get arcane warrior and still Morrigan is more qualified to fight than Wynne.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 10 février 2011 - 01:36 .

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
What are Wynne's concerns based on?  In what way has the warden shown themselves to be anything but ready and willing and working towards ending the blight?  Exactly what have they done to show themselves NOT mature and unable to unite the people?

Her concerns are probably based on a more realistic concept of how a very young person shouldering a lot of responsibility without having the experience or training to do so might be inclined, as opposed to the incredible, fantastic, super-intelligent, plot-armour-protected, charismatic, highly skilled, uber-powerful, flawless, omniscient pinnacle of awesome that is The Warden.

But her concerns are not based upon the warden's actions.  The warden gives zero cause for concern in those areas.  If anything, by the time Wynne is giving this "advice," she should have been with the party long enough that she should be able to see just how well the warden is doing with the responsibility on their shoulders.

Perhaps it's because Wynne rejects the actual leadership positions when offered, even when told expressly that she is desperately needed, that she is projecting her own shortcomings onto the warden?  I suppose that is possible, and it makes it a bit less obnoxious.  It's still not based on the warden's actions, but just on Wynne's incorrect beliefs and poor judgement of the warden's character.

Honestly, age has less to do with it than the type of person you are.  And before anyone says that I'm young and that's why I'm saying that, I am not -- I'm 42.  Age does not equal responsibility nor does being a young adult preclude it.

[sevalaricgirl]

Honestly, age has less to do with it than the type of person you are.  And before anyone says that I'm young and that's why I'm saying that, I am not -- I'm 42.  Age does not equal responsibility nor does being a young adult preclude it.

******************************************************************
Yeah, another 40+ person who plays the game. Thank goodness I'm not alone.

[mousestalker]

sevalaricgirl wrote...


Honestly, age has less to do with it than the type of person you are.  And before anyone says that I'm young and that's why I'm saying that, I am not -- I'm 42.  Age does not equal responsibility nor does being a young adult preclude it.

******************************************************************
Yeah, another 40+ person who plays the game. Thank goodness I'm not alone.

You young people and your notions. {Harrumph}



<====is older than you.