361 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Ninotchka wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Face it, Wynne is the character many of us love to hate.  In-game you have very little opportunity to tell her to bugger off, so I think that's part of the reason we enjoy tormenting her here.

You're not tormenting her here. You're attempting to torment the players who like Wynne. But you fail

I could care less whether someone likes her or not.  I'm talking about the fellowship of Wynne haters, which is strong and abiding and transcends other player differences. 

[Sarah1281]

Ninotchka wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Face it, Wynne is the character many of us love to hate.  In-game you have very little opportunity to tell her to bugger off, so I think that's part of the reason we enjoy tormenting her here.

You're not tormenting her here. You're attempting to torment the players who like Wynne. But you fail

Um, what? How is saying that you don't like a character 'tormenting' those who do? This isn't even a gush thread. This is a thread that is purportedly trying to understand why people call her preachy, hypocritical, ect. and yet is also very easily taking offence to others explaining their thought process on the subject.

[HolyAvenger]

Addai67 wrote...
Why should we talk about her redeeming qualities?  We're not writing literary essays here dude, we're shooting the poo about a video game.  Face it, Wynne is the character many of us love to hate.  In-game you have very little opportunity to tell her to bugger off, so I think that's part of the reason we enjoy tormenting her here.

Hence my first post about not bothering to engage with people who like to keep their blinkers on. You are, of course, perfectly entitled to tell Wynne to bugger off via the BSN boards

Addai67 wrote...

Oh, and trying to attack the person she regards as humanity's only hope for nothing more than her religious zealotry is a pretty big flaw. 

I've never had the particular confrontation, but suffice to say that I think her flaws are certainly no bigger than the others in your party, several of whom will also try and kill you...

[mousestalker]

I think y'all need to chill out a bit. I'm pretty sure Wynne would agree, assuming her personal spirits didn't have her perma-drunk.



Some of the above posts were border line abusive. And Godwin's law is in play.



Wynne is written to be other than what she appears at first blush.

[Ninotchka]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Ninotchka wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Face it, Wynne is the character many of us love to hate.  In-game you have very little opportunity to tell her to bugger off, so I think that's part of the reason we enjoy tormenting her here.

You're not tormenting her here. You're attempting to torment the players who like Wynne. But you fail

Um, what? How is saying that you don't like a character 'tormenting' those who do? This isn't even a gush thread. This is a thread that is purportedly trying to understand why people call her preachy, hypocritical, ect. and yet is also very easily taking offence to others explaining their thought process on the subject.

I would think that telling someone, who is defending Wynne, that you 'enjoy' tormenting Wynne is aimed at tormenting people who like or in this case who were defending Wynne.

It doesn't have to be 'gush' thread for these feelings to be provoked.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Um, what? How is saying that you don't like a character 'tormenting' those who do? This isn't even a gush thread. This is a thread that is purportedly trying to understand why people call her preachy, hypocritical, ect. and yet is also very easily taking offence to others explaining their thought process on the subject.

Huh? I made this thread. I'm taking offense? That's news to me. Truth be told I made this thread out of good fun and humor. I noticed she gets flammed from every direction so I decided to start talking to her to see what the fuss is about.

I actually laughed out loud when she turned out (to me) to be this ultra sweet, kind older woman. So I made a thread asking people to stop beating up grandma as a joke. I had no idea this was actually a long standing "controversy" on the forum, nor did I have any idea it would get the reaction it did.

So "very easily offended"? I would love to see that substantiated.

[Addai]

Ninotchka wrote...

I would think that telling someone, who is defending Wynne, that you 'enjoy' tormenting Wynne is aimed at tormenting people who like or in this case who were defending Wynne.

It doesn't have to be 'gush' thread for these feelings to be provoked.

He wasn't defending Wynne.  He was asking why people dis her here so much.  Actually he was calling them "blinkered", but the implication is he doesn't understand the mentality.  Sorry if you take it personally that someone doesn't like one of your favorite characters. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Don't worry, Paratrooper. Forums are a warren of misconception, inability to read between the lines and telling people what they're obviously thinking.



On topic: I like Wynne. I have no problem with her. That is all.

[Sarah1281]

Hence my first post about not bothering to engage with people who like to keep their blinkers on.

Having fun talking about your dislike of a character =/= keeping their blinkers on. You can see a character perfectly well for their good and bad traits and yet still prefer talking about the negative ones.

Huh? I made this thread. I'm taking offense? That's news to me.

I didn't say whether YOU were getting offended or not. I said this thread had people getting offended.

[Addai]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...
I actually laughed out loud when she turned out (to me) to be this ultra sweet, kind older woman. So I made a thread asking people to stop beating up grandma as a joke. I had no idea this was actually a long standing "controversy" on the forum, nor did I have any idea it would get the reaction it did.

So "very easily offended"? I would love to see that substantiated.

No worries, OP.  I tend to look at the matter in an offhand way, too.  I don't really go about fireballing old ladies IRL, even if they're terribly annoying.    Dry humor is hard to get across on the netz but now that you clarified we know where you're coming from.

[Persephone]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Actually...people "ignore or outright dismiss" the good qualities of EVERY character. All of them. I've seen this done to Alistair, Loghain, Anora, Zevran, Morrigan, Oghren, Sten, Leliana...the list goes on. I don't see how it's at all strange that if you don't like a character you tend to see more of their flaws than their good points just like how a fan of a character sees more of their good points than their flaws.

In a discussion about what's good or bad about her (especially when people ask you to explain how she's preachy or hypocritical) why should people who don't like her gush about how she's a great healer and means well? The fans are already talking about that.

I've seen arguments defending Wynne that I don't agree with (ex: "It's okay that Wynne tries to kill you in defence of ashes you already destroyed because she's decided that if you're willing to do that then you're not the kind of hero Ferelden needs") but that doesn't make Wynne fans 'blinkered.'

One thing that FEELS unique to Wynne fans but that I'm sure isn't is the belief some of them have that you can't dislike her without having something wrong with you. It's not that people who don't like Wynne don't understand her, it's not like we want her to be perfect, it's not like we're 'blinkered.' We just don't like her and thus don't see why we should talk about her good points. Should we end every post talking about her bad points with 'But she does mean well, really' to prove that we don't think that she has no redeeming qualities whatsoever?

And you don't HAVE to name names when you called the people on here (namely: us) 'blinkered.'

Ignoring the good qualities of Loghain is not unlike ignoring the good qualities of Adolf Hitler.

Rubbish. Complete and utterly ignorant rubbish.<_<

[Ninotchka]

Addai67 wrote...

Ninotchka wrote...

I would think that telling someone, who is defending Wynne, that you 'enjoy' tormenting Wynne is aimed at tormenting people who like or in this case who were defending Wynne.

It doesn't have to be 'gush' thread for these feelings to be provoked.

He wasn't defending Wynne.  He was asking why people dis her here so much.  Actually he was calling them "blinkered", but the implication is he doesn't understand the mentality.  Sorry if you take it personally that someone doesn't like one of your favorite characters. 

Well, in a way he was by stating that all Wynne's detractors/haters hardly ever acknowledge her positives.

Oh and don't worry, I am not taking anything that personally. I just thought I would add some extra curry to the debate pot

[Xilizhra]

Have I said this? Maybe. Anyway, I don't really mind Wynne's lectures about the Grey Wardens; there's nothing wrong with moral paragonitude, and you never have to do anything evil in the course of stopping the Blight, or even to do it well. But she has some other annoying qualities, most definitely.

[Verly]

I don't normally get into the debaty stuff.



I think the reason my characters usually don't like her is because I usually have Zevran as my character's li, and she seems especially rude when it comes to him.(except the line that no one is getting any sleep with the noise ( the first time I heard that I laughed out loud for a LONG time before I could continue my play through. you can say you'll try to keep the noise down the next time) and because the way the game functions you get her apology really late in the game.



now, when I play mages that LIKE that they are circle mages they like her because they are used to having senior mages making long speeches about how they should act.



as you see I see her as whatever character I've made sees her at that time.



I can see both bad and good qualities of her. (I personally DO find her more annoying and preachy then I personally like ( but her idea that warden's serve other people is something that I personally DO believe in. I believe that a strong leader needs remember that they are only leaders because they have followers. You are serving *them* with your leadership. This does not mean that I think a leader should be a wimp or even need to be friendly, they need to think of the people they serve over all and choose what is best for the overall good of the followers. )

[HolyAvenger]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Hence my first post about not bothering to engage with people who like to keep their blinkers on.

Having fun talking about your dislike of a character =/= keeping their blinkers on. You can see a character perfectly well for their good and bad traits and yet still prefer talking about the negative ones. 

Hmm, I feel that talking only about the negative aspects is being blinkered- or at least appears so because how would anyone reading that know otherwise. I mean if all a thread is going to descend into is Wynne-bashing then I have little interest in partaking as it does not take into account all aspects of her as a character.

[HolyAvenger]

Addai67 wrote...
He was asking why people dis her here so much.  Actually he was calling them "blinkered", but the implication is he doesn't understand the mentality.  Sorry if you take it personally that someone doesn't like one of your favorite characters. 

Actually I wasn't asking anything of the sort. I understand perfectly well why people here diss her so much. I was just advising the OP not to get into a debate with people who refuse to see the depths/facets of her character.

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 07 février 2011 - 02:40 .

[Sarah1281]

But we DO see the depths/facets of her character. Saying that just because people want to talk about her more negative qualities means that they can't see the positive is like saying that the people (like you) who want to talk about her positives can't see the negative.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Persephone wrote...
Rubbish. Complete and utterly ignorant rubbish.<_<

My point was the "good" qualities of tyrants are routinely ignored. Perhaps you care to articulate a rebuttal beyond, "rubbish"? Because right now all I can picture is Austin Powers.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Verly wrote...

I believe that a strong leader needs remember that they are only leaders because they have followers. You are serving *them* with your leadership. This does not mean that I think a leader should be a wimp or even need to be friendly, they need to think of the people they serve over all and choose what is best for the overall good of the followers. )

Aka 'troop welfare', which comes second in priority only to mission accomplishment.

[Addai]

HolyAvenger wrote...
Actually I wasn't asking anything of the sort. I understand perfectly well why people here diss her so much. I was just advising the OP not to get into a debate with people who refuse to see the depths/facets of her character.

Those who call her "sweet grandma" strike me as the ones who don't acknowledge the various sides of her character.  But just because you don't deign to debate the subject with the "blinkered" doesn't mean others can't.

[HolyAvenger]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But we DO see the depths/facets of her character. Saying that just because people want to talk about her more negative qualities means that they can't see the positive is like saying that the people (like you) who want to talk about her positives can't see the negative.

Some people do. Plenty give the impression they don't. While I don't presume to speak for anyone else who chooses to present a more balance view of Wynne, I certainly view her as a well-meaning character but with her fair share of flaws and blind-spots. If others can't, well I would suggest you do not engage with those blinkered folk.

[Aeowyn]

I used to like Wynne once. Then I just realized what a huge hypocrite she was. The fact that you get disapproval points if you don't agree with her OPINIONS (yes, her opinions, not fact) and that she, when she's reached the point where she leaves says "I hope the darkspawn take you" should show you what she's really like. Wynne, the sweet old grandma, hopes that the only Wardens in Ferelden get taken by the darkspawn just because she doesn't like the way that Grey Warden acts.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 07 février 2011 - 08:01 .

[LiquidGrape]

So. Wynne is flawed.

Is that really a bad thing?

I admit to being one of those who consider Wynne the proverbial grandmother of the group, but I would challenge her on certain points, and while there were disagreements, it never affected the relationship significantly.

Compared to Alistair who'll burst into tears or start mouthing off at the slightest provocation, I'd say Wynne's presumption shrinks rather dramatically.

[Aeowyn]

Every character is flawed and my Warden has disagreements with Sten, Morrigan, Zevran and Leliana as well. However I actually respect these characters because they're not huge hypocrites like Wynne is.

[Bigdoser]

Aeowyn wrote...

Every character is flawed and my Warden has disagreements with Sten, Morrigan, Zevran and Leliana as well. However I actually respect these characters because they're not huge hypocrites like Wynne is.

The funny thing with sten is the fact in certain conversations even if you disagree with him you still get approval from him