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Mattock Vanguard = Best Vanguard


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#1
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After I finished my Insanity NG+ playthrough with a Claymore Vanguard a while back, I thought I was done with Vanguarding (previously a Scimitar/Viper Vanguard, spent some time to learn the Claymore), until recently when I started a Mattock Vanguard - something I previously chose to ignore.

Needless to say, Mattock is good at range (the conventional Vanguard's only weakness), and it has better range multiplier, accuracy, and armor penetration than any Shotgun. What I discovered to my surprise is that Mattock is the absolute best Assault Rifle when it comes to CQC with Vanguard Charge. I dare say it is better than the Claymore or the Scimitar even, for several reasons:

(1) Mattock manual tap fire has a top rate of 750 rpm. The consensus has been that only Soldier with Adrenaline Rush can fully utilize this fire rate, as most people's fingers cannot tap that fast. However, a Vanguard has Heavy Charge which provides a slowdown that allows you to reach this peak fire rate for about 3 shots.That is 150 base damage. With +100% melee range multiplier, Assault Rifle penetration, upgrades, ammo and melee, that alone is enough to kill a basic trooper on insanity.

(2) Mattock's clip size and accuracy allows you to fire at an enemy *before* you Charge at them. If you time it correctly, you can use this firing time for power recharge, or to simply tanking (which doesn't hurt as it will be remedied immediately by charge). This allows for a fluid gameplay where you are always either shooting or using powers - something no Shotgun Vanguard can easily achieve.

(3) Mattock's large clip size allows you to melee whenever you wish. With Shotguns you have to melee between slow shots and reloads - you have to time it correctly. But sometimes you wish your melee timing to be not restricted by your weapon - to prevent an enemy Biotic from using Warp by staggering, for example. Mattock allows for unprecedented freedom in your melee timing. I never had this much fun meleeing as a Vanguard than I do with the Mattock Vanguard. This also allows you to conserve the Mattock's limited ammo.

(4) Mattock's high ROF *and* high damage per shot allows for the best synergy with Vanguard ammo powers. TonyGunslinger's Viper/Mattock Flashbang Cryo Agent is partly based on the fact that Mattock with Cryo Ammo has the highest freezing efficiency out of all ARs. It's the same with Inferno Ammo - with Mattock against organics, the Inferno panic effect will always be there, unlike with Shotguns, where enemies can regain their composure during the long lull between your shots. Cryo Mattock allows you to actually save ammo and melee the frozen enemy, unlike the more powerful one-shot Shotguns (Claymore & Evi) which would have killed the enemy while freezing them.

(5) The "Mattock Skewer"
Another good thing with the Mattock is that you can line up several enemies and then punch through all of them in one long burst. It's like how you line up two Scions and use one as cover from the other's Shockwave - except with standard mooks, when they come at you in a long corridor, or when they are lined up behind a wall. Just Charge the one in front/on the edge, line them up, and punch away. The essence is to use one enemy as cover from other enemies - Vanguard/Mattock is better at this than any other class/weapon combo due to the synergy of supreme maneuvrability, high ROF, and punch.

There are other more obvious things, like the more viable options in maneuvering & back pedalling offered by the range and accuracy, the agility of Mattock (fast swing around) in CQC, the knockback effect of the powerful bullets plus high ROF, etc.

All in all, if you get tired of the OSOK's of Claymore and Evi, and Scimitar's ROF is not high enough to get your blood pumping, try a Mattock Vanguard. It rocks.

Mattock Vanguard videos (not made by me - FRAPs crash my ancient laptop):

krisnye's Mordin Recruitment: www.youtube.com/watch

gvg870's CS Tube Run (the video that introduced me to the Mattock Vanguard): www.youtube.com/watch

Similar vid by StarduskLP, without using Warp Bombs: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 16 février 2011 - 07:47 .


#2
Kronner

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Well, it is pretty much broken, just like Adrenaline Rush + Mattock, since there is no RoF slowdown (after the impact of Heavy Charge) despite the fact that the game slows down the time. Also, it is not faster at killing than Shotgun.
I wouldn't say it's best Vanguard, as that is very subjective and different for everyone.
But Mattock can be fun for some people, more power to them :wizard:

Modifié par Kronner, 06 février 2011 - 07:04 .


#3
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^ Well said Maestro. I have found the weakness of the Mattock Vanguard: enemy Shields. After getting so used to the immense bonus of all Shotguns vs. Shields, I was surprised to see that Mattock deals only a small dent in them. :-(

After all upgrades and no special ammo, Mattock has +55% v. Armor, and +45% v. Shields. Claymore/Evi has +25% v. Armor and +75% v. Shields, while GPS/Scimitar has 0% v. Armor and 100% v. Shields. With Inferno Ammo, Mattock *destroys* Armor but is relatively weak against Shields, while Claymore/Evi becomes a very balanced and very powerful defense stripper.

That is why Mattock is amazing against Blood Pack/LOKIs but mediocre against Geth/Blue Suns. I was trying to run a Vanguard with Assault Rifle but no Shotgun (ala Tela Vasir) through the entire compaign - turns out Shotguns are better in some situations after all.

Another weakness of the Mattock Vanguard is when you absolutely need that OSOK - against a Pyro or a Heavy. Mattock Charging Blue Suns Heavies on Korlus makes me miss the Claymore very dearly.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 06 février 2011 - 08:10 .


#4
Kronner

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I don't like to rapidly press the mouse button to fire, which is one of the reasons I never liked Scimitar. With Mattock it's even 'worse'.

It certainly looks like viable choice though, and could be nice change of pace. But I doubt I could get over the fact that OSOKing regular enemies is not possible :D

#5
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Does an Assault Rifle actually get the Short Range Multiplier? I think that is an Shotgun exclusive.

#6
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Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Does an Assault Rifle actually get the Short Range Multiplier? I think that is an Shotgun exclusive.


http://masseffect.wi...ange_Comparison

You can test this out in game, with an accurate ranged weapon like the Mattock or Carnifex. The Range Multiplier's effect is quite stunning actually.

#7
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Kronner wrote...

I don't like to rapidly press the mouse button to fire, which is one of the reasons I never liked Scimitar. With Mattock it's even 'worse'.
It certainly looks like viable choice though, and could be nice change of pace. But I doubt I could get over the fact that OSOKing regular enemies is not possible :D


I used to have a feeble old IBM mouse. Using Mattock with it would probably destroy the button, so I always avoided the Mattock. But now I have a brand new Logitech which is more than robust enough. :-)

The more important thing is to OSOK the crucial enemies - the Heavies. Especially on Korlus where 2 Heavies spawn at the same location. OSOK one and then melee the other is a safe approach. With Mattock, you cannot do that. By the time you finished one off, the other has already launched a missle at you. One possible solution is to Charge one, put a few bullets in to stun, and swtich to the other without killing the first. Quite tricky actually.

Anyway, if you imagine a giant stadium with 5 Blue Suns Heavies on the top level of the stands far apart from each other and Shepard in the center, no weapon or ability will allow the Commander to survive.

#8
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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Kronner wrote...

I don't like to rapidly press the mouse button to fire, which is one of the reasons I never liked Scimitar. With Mattock it's even 'worse'.
It certainly looks like viable choice though, and could be nice change of pace. But I doubt I could get over the fact that OSOKing regular enemies is not possible :D


I used to have a feeble old IBM mouse. Using Mattock with it would probably destroy the button, so I always avoided the Mattock. But now I have a brand new Logitech which is more than robust enough. :-)

The more important thing is to OSOK the crucial enemies - the Heavies. Especially on Korlus where 2 Heavies spawn at the same location. OSOK one and then melee the other is a safe approach. With Mattock, you cannot do that. By the time you finished one off, the other has already launched a missle at you. One possible solution is to Charge one, put a few bullets in to stun, and swtich to the other without killing the first. Quite tricky actually.

Anyway, if you imagine a giant stadium with 5 Blue Suns Heavies on the top level of the stands far apart from each other and Shepard in the center, no weapon or ability will allow the Commander to survive.


Are they standing facing me in a symmetrical manner with two Heavies alining into trajectory pairs Image IPB

#9
RinpocheSchnozberry

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Matlock?

Image IPB

#10
Leeroi

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Mattock is actually more efficient and faster than shotgun at killing. It is a better defence stripper at medium range and just as quick at killing in close range because unlike the sniper rifle the mattock gains proximity damage modifier so 3 shots are probably enough to finish off any normal grunt on insanity. All in all it's pretty amazing - the Mattock definitely can't replace the claymore or any shotgun for that matter. However, the playstyle is pretty awesome and I suggest to anyone who hasn't tried it to give it a go.

#11
marshalleck

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Mattock is pretty much better than anything for everyone for any purpose

#12
Sparrow44

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Having watched Tony Gunslingers' Agent Infiltrator videos, I'd say the Mattock is definitely a beast with Cryo Ammo activated. Freeze some fools and Charge 'em and watch them fly and shatter into the distance.

#13
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Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

The more important thing is to OSOK the crucial enemies - the Heavies. Especially on Korlus where 2 Heavies spawn at the same location. OSOK one and then melee the other is a safe approach. With Mattock, you cannot do that. By the time you finished one off, the other has already launched a missle at you. One possible solution is to Charge one, put a few bullets in to stun, and swtich to the other without killing the first. Quite tricky actually.

Anyway, if you imagine a giant stadium with 5 Blue Suns Heavies on the top level of the stands far apart from each other and Shepard in the center, no weapon or ability will allow the Commander to survive.


Are they standing facing me in a symmetrical manner with two Heavies alining into trajectory pairs Image IPB


?? You can get double kills with Sniper Rifles in Mass Effect? That's news to me!

#14
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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

The more important thing is to OSOK the crucial enemies - the Heavies. Especially on Korlus where 2 Heavies spawn at the same location. OSOK one and then melee the other is a safe approach. With Mattock, you cannot do that. By the time you finished one off, the other has already launched a missle at you. One possible solution is to Charge one, put a few bullets in to stun, and swtich to the other without killing the first. Quite tricky actually.

Anyway, if you imagine a giant stadium with 5 Blue Suns Heavies on the top level of the stands far apart from each other and Shepard in the center, no weapon or ability will allow the Commander to survive.


Are they standing facing me in a symmetrical manner with two Heavies alining into trajectory pairs Image IPB


?? You can get double kills with Sniper Rifles in Mass Effect? That's news to me!


Naw, I I meant if all those Guys would be standing like this:
Image IPBImage IPBImage IPB
Image IPBImage IPBImage IPB
Image IPBImage IPBImage IPB
With me in center and do simultanously shoot their missiles and if I get the right moment, I could charge through the guys missile I am charging at, the rest would lose targeting, hit the guys opposed to the guy who fired whilst I kill the first dude. The others get stagged by the respective impacts and I can easily dispatch another one, making this a two-on-one fight, which means they are grossly outnumbered if I am playing Vanguard!

#15
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<_< Ah, no. Actually they'd be randomly spawned like this (and they move around randomly, and their missiles are homing unlike Blood Pack's):

<3:ph34r:../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png
../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png                :ph34r:
:ph34r:     :(     ../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png
../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png                ../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png
<3:ph34r:../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png:ph34r:

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 07 février 2011 - 01:57 .


#16
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Sparroww wrote...

Having watched Tony Gunslingers' Agent Infiltrator videos, I'd say the Mattock is definitely a beast with Cryo Ammo activated. Freeze some fools and Charge 'em and watch them fly and shatter into the distance.

It works just as well with Inferno Ammo. You can quickly spray your bullets into multiple targets and watch them all burn. At the same time. Even Scimitar can't do that.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 07 février 2011 - 02:00 .


#17
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iOnlySignIn wrote...

<_< Ah, no. Actually they'd be randomly spawned like this (and they move around randomly, and their missiles are homing unlike Blood Pack's):

<3:ph34r:../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png
../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png                :ph34r:
:ph34r:     :(     ../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png
../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png                ../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png
<3:ph34r:../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png:ph34r:


Spielverderber ...

#18
ashwind

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XD - IMO the Mattock is itself an imba assault riffle - almost feel like cheating using it. I'd still pick the Claymore over Mattock after trying it because of OSOK in the face satisfaction.

#19
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Vanguard only uses shotgun.

PERIOD!

#20
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Mesina2 wrote...

Vanguard only uses shotgun.
PERIOD!


Personally I agree with this.  I am currently playing a Vanguard and picked up assault rifle training so I could use the mattock.  

I found myself the last couple of missions not really using charge because area reave + mattock is very easy destuction.  If my ammo starts running low at the end of a big fight I still have a fully loaded SMG, Hand Cannon and Shotgun.  

Of Course it was my choice to play cautious that way so I got rid of Reave now for Barrier and just wont use the assault rifle untill its the last weapon.  I wanted to play a Vanguard for up close encounters and the Mattock, being effective as it is can very easily make you lose sight of what being a Vanguard is all about.    However looking at how effective it appears in those videos with charge I may reconsider.  Doesnt look as fun though as with a Shotgun or even a SMG.

#21
termokanden

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Well I am still going to try out the Mattock for CQC on my vanguard. The idea is never to use it at range but to charge and then use it. I'm hoping the time dilation helps me squeeze the most DPS out of it.

#22
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Rolled my first Vanguard yesterday. So far i've done Kasumi's Loyalty and recruited Grunt, Garrus and Mordin (in that order, i wanted to hear them complain about the plague :P).



Charge is by far the most entertaining skill in the game. The final area before you reach the fans in Mordins recruitment, sending everyone to the wall overlooking the area while we all kill off the Vorcha heavy weapons users from the unreachable wall at the top, followed by Charging head first off the balcony straight into the Vorcha coming through the door, putting an Eviscerator round in its face, stunning the 1 behind it with Concussion Shot, then shooting it in the face too, turning round and charging another 1 and sending it flying (Heavy Charge) so i shoot another 1 nearby then run over and melee the other to death.



Honestly i don't think the Mattock could beat it for enjoyment.

#23
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Mesina2 wrote...

Vanguard only uses shotgun.
PERIOD!


I would, if I can change all the annoying Avengers in the cutscenes to my badass Claymore. Aesthetics matters to me - and personally I don't like any Assault Rifle besides the Revenant and the Mattock - they're replaceable by the SMGs. Charging with the Revenant is way too OP.

#24
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Captain Crash wrote...

Personally I agree with this.  I am currently playing a Vanguard and picked up assault rifle training so I could use the mattock.  

I found myself the last couple of missions not really using charge because area reave + mattock is very easy destuction.  If my ammo starts running low at the end of a big fight I still have a fully loaded SMG, Hand Cannon and Shotgun.  

Of Course it was my choice to play cautious that way so I got rid of Reave now for Barrier and just wont use the assault rifle untill its the last weapon.  I wanted to play a Vanguard for up close encounters and the Mattock, being effective as it is can very easily make you lose sight of what being a Vanguard is all about.    However looking at how effective it appears in those videos with charge I may reconsider.  Doesnt look as fun though as with a Shotgun or even a SMG.

I certainly see what you mean. Sometimes the Mattock makes you lazy and stay back.

But I believe from an RP perspective, your combat should be as efficient and as risk-free (depends on your skill level - Charging everything with Claymore is risk free for some, but not everyone) as possible. I don't think any professional soldier would choose a specific tactics because of their rank, designation, or specialization, nor would they risk their lives unnecessarily when safer alternatives are just as efficient.

Personally, 99% of the times I reload is because I'm not satisfyied with the way I play a certain level (bad tactical decisions resulting in to much health-damage; enemy heavies and biotics/tech specialists not shut down effectively at first sight). I'm not RPing a superhero. I'm RPing an elite soldier and leader.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 10 février 2011 - 01:31 .


#25
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termokanden wrote...

Well I am still going to try out the Mattock for CQC on my vanguard. The idea is never to use it at range but to charge and then use it. I'm hoping the time dilation helps me squeeze the most DPS out of it.


Time dilation helps Mattock more than it helps Scimitar/Katana. It helps Claymore/Evi if yours is not a perfect aim. It's like Adrenaline Rush.

Mattock is good at close (melee) or long range (beyond power lock-on range). Personally I think at mid range (around 20~40 meters) against groups of weak enemies an SMG spray is more helpful because you just cannot tap fire the Mattock consistently for more than 5 seconds at a time. Not without damaging your finger anyway. It's like of a Shotgun/Sniper Rifle rolled into one, like the Geth Plasma Shotgun.

In fact, my Mattock Vanguard takes a GPS as backup and switch weapons depends on enemy Armor (Mattock exclusive) or Shields (GPS preferrable) and battlefield layout (open - Mattock; closed - GPS preferrable). It's quite satisfying.