This just in: an overpowered weapon is miraculously the best. News at 11.
Mattock Vanguard = Best Vanguard
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#27
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Posté 10 février 2011 - 01:44
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Evilsod wrote...
Rolled my first Vanguard yesterday. So far i've done Kasumi's Loyalty and recruited Grunt, Garrus and Mordin (in that order, i wanted to hear them complain about the plague).
Charge is by far the most entertaining skill in the game. The final area before you reach the fans in Mordins recruitment, sending everyone to the wall overlooking the area while we all kill off the Vorcha heavy weapons users from the unreachable wall at the top, followed by Charging head first off the balcony straight into the Vorcha coming through the door, putting an Eviscerator round in its face, stunning the 1 behind it with Concussion Shot, then shooting it in the face too, turning round and charging another 1 and sending it flying (Heavy Charge) so i shoot another 1 nearby then run over and melee the other to death.
Honestly i don't think the Mattock could beat it for enjoyment.
Mordin Recruitment is actually one of the best Mattock missions (it's in one of the video links of the OP), for 2 reasons:
(1) Blood Pack all have Armor. Mattock's Armor penetration is unrivaled by any shotgun, not even the Claymore. With Inferno Ammo it's spectacular.
(2) You can get consistent headshots on Krogans (who have very large heads) at any range with the Mattock, something very few can do with a Shotgun (and Shotguns have 8 pellets - for all of them to be headshots, you have to stick the gun to the enemy's face). You'll drop those Krogans like flies - in fact I think the Mattock is the best anti-Krogan weapon - only the Viper comes close.
Also, when I play a non-sniper class, I never bother to kill those unreachable Heavies. (I counter-snipe when I have a Sniper Rifle - the wait and bait is fun.) You can just run past them, and their missiles will fly harmlessly over your head. I could kill them, of course, but if I'm Shepard I'd choose to save my time, ammo, and possible injuries to myself and my squad.
Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 10 février 2011 - 01:47 .
#28
Posté 10 février 2011 - 02:45
Evilsod
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That may be the case, but Vorcha can't survive a single Eviscerator shot never mind a Claymore. Not to mention its a first playthrough, i couldn't even HAVE a Mattock by that point.
#29
Posté 10 février 2011 - 02:55
mokponobi
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If it's a first play through, then you wouldn't have the Claymore either. On insanity, if you charge and attack a Vorcha, it CAN survive one Eviscerator shot, and he and his buddies will tear you a new one at that point.
Modifié par mokponobi, 10 février 2011 - 02:57 .
#30
Posté 10 février 2011 - 02:58
Evilsod
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No ****? I am well aware i wouldn't have a Claymore by that point, nor would i have a Mattock. The Vorcha i was fighting dropped dead from a single Eviscerator shot at point blank, and if you charged into the middle of enough vorcha to be killed before you could Charge again you'd be dead with or without a Mattock.
#31
Posté 10 février 2011 - 03:12
termokanden
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That's what I'm trying to say. I wouldn't stand around at range with a Mattock Vanguard. That's not fun, and a Soldier would be much better at it anyway. But nothing's stopping you from charging and using it for CQC. It even gets the close range multiplier.iOnlySignIn wrote...
termokanden wrote...
Well I am still going to try out the Mattock for CQC on my vanguard. The idea is never to use it at range but to charge and then use it. I'm hoping the time dilation helps me squeeze the most DPS out of it.
Time dilation helps Mattock more than it helps Scimitar/Katana. It helps Claymore/Evi if yours is not a perfect aim. It's like Adrenaline Rush.
Modifié par termokanden, 10 février 2011 - 03:12 .
#32
Posté 10 février 2011 - 05:15
Schneidend
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The Mattock is theoretically the best weapon for ANY class as long as the player can click/press fast enough to maximize its DPS. This isn't really debatable. Overpowered weapons are overpowered, exactly as it says on the tin.
#33
Posté 10 février 2011 - 05:22
termokanden
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Most people won't be clicking nearly that fast. Still an overpowered weapon, but without time dilation not as much as you might think.
I also think the Geth Plasma Shotgun is overpowered, by the way. It's likely also the best shotgun to use for Vanguards on lower difficulties, since Charge will knock back enemies quite a bit.
I also think the Geth Plasma Shotgun is overpowered, by the way. It's likely also the best shotgun to use for Vanguards on lower difficulties, since Charge will knock back enemies quite a bit.
Modifié par termokanden, 10 février 2011 - 05:23 .
#34
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Posté 10 février 2011 - 09:05
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I'm still trying to get used to the GPS Vanguard (Insanity). I still feel the Claymore is slightly better for the Vanguard, as it is better at point blank range and has stronger impact. The GPS is clearly better for any other class though, especially Adept/Engineer.termokanden wrote...
Most people won't be clicking nearly that fast. Still an overpowered weapon, but without time dilation not as much as you might think.
I also think the Geth Plasma Shotgun is overpowered, by the way. It's likely also the best shotgun to use for Vanguards on lower difficulties, since Charge will knock back enemies quite a bit.
Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 10 février 2011 - 09:05 .
#35
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Posté 10 février 2011 - 09:08
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I only play Insanity NG+ nowadays, so Vorchas don't drop with a single shot at point blank with the Evi. If you aim well with the Inferno Claymore it might. I suggest you play Insanity NG+ when it's available to you - you'll have more tactical options when using powers, more diverse weapons selection, and slightly elevated difficulty than Insanity.Evilsod wrote...
No ****? I am well aware i wouldn't have a Claymore by that point, nor would i have a Mattock. The Vorcha i was fighting dropped dead from a single Eviscerator shot at point blank, and if you charged into the middle of enough vorcha to be killed before you could Charge again you'd be dead with or without a Mattock.
Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 10 février 2011 - 09:08 .
#36
Posté 11 février 2011 - 03:49
termokanden
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iOnlySignIn wrote...
I'm still trying to get used to the GPS Vanguard (Insanity). I still feel the Claymore is slightly better for the Vanguard, as it is better at point blank range and has stronger impact. The GPS is clearly better for any other class though, especially Adept/Engineer.
I think you're right. On insanity and if you use the reload trick, then I would agree the Claymore is the way to go for a Vanguard.
If you're playing on normal, a lot of enemies don't have protection and are knocked back. Not only is the Claymore complete overkill there, it also won't always hit with all pellets simply because people fly so far away when you hit them with Charge.
For a caster class on insanity I think the GPS is great though. Tons of ammo with upgrades, good range, good damage.
Modifié par termokanden, 11 février 2011 - 03:50 .
#37
Posté 11 février 2011 - 02:30
Evilsod
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GPS would be the perfect weapon for a Vanguard if there was plenty of room to stand up behind cover so you can fully charge the weapon before you charge the enemy. That way you can unload the insanely high damage shot right into its face. Though considering most enemies you do that to would be killed by a Claymore shot it doesn't matter.
If you were on Normal/Veteran you'd be using a Scimitar.
If you were on Normal/Veteran you'd be using a Scimitar.
#38
Posté 11 février 2011 - 08:46
termokanden
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*I* wouldn't due to the range on the GPS. You don't need to charge it, it's a great gun anyway. Kills most enemies on normal with one shot without being charged.
Doesn't really matter on normal difficulty anyway. You can use whatever you want and get away with it.
Doesn't really matter on normal difficulty anyway. You can use whatever you want and get away with it.
#39
Posté 11 février 2011 - 10:41
Omega-202
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iOnlySignIn wrote...
I only play Insanity NG+ nowadays, so Vorchas don't drop with a single shot at point blank with the Evi.
- Fresh game on Mordin's recruitment on Insanity below level 10
- with the SG upgrade from Kenn's shop
- Squad Incendiary (from Grunt or Jacob being that getting your own personal Inferno ammo is a low priority that early on)
- Point blank Eviscerator shot
= 1 shot + 1 melee in most circumstances
BUT I have had OHKO's if you put the muzzle of the gun straight into their head and all 8 pellets hit for a headshot. 1 "neck" shot (getting part head, part body) usually leaves them with a sliver which may sometimes end up being a functional "One Shot" if you / a squadmate has already done some damage to them (or Garrus pulls his classic "my kill" with the Incisor...damn turian's made me elbow air more times than I can remember)
Modifié par Omega-202, 11 février 2011 - 10:43 .
#40
Posté 11 février 2011 - 11:14
Arhka
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Viper still has a higher multiplier against armor than the Mattock and benefits from the 50% Increased Headshot Damage research project for Sniper Rifles.iOnlySignIn wrote...
You'll drop those Krogans like flies - in fact I think the Mattock is the best anti-Krogan weapon - only the Viper comes close.
#41
Posté 12 février 2011 - 12:14
SirValeq
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Viper doesn't benefit from range multipliers though and they're significant in Vaunguard gameplay.
#42
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Posté 12 février 2011 - 01:55
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What you say is correct. But on Insanity NG+, where you start at Level 30 with no upgrades, it will be harder.Omega-202 wrote...
- Fresh game on Mordin's recruitment on Insanity below level 10iOnlySignIn wrote...
I only play Insanity NG+ nowadays, so Vorchas don't drop with a single shot at point blank with the Evi.
- with the SG upgrade from Kenn's shop
- Squad Incendiary (from Grunt or Jacob being that getting your own personal Inferno ammo is a low priority that early on)
- Point blank Eviscerator shot
= 1 shot + 1 melee in most circumstances
BUT I have had OHKO's if you put the muzzle of the gun straight into their head and all 8 pellets hit for a headshot. 1 "neck" shot (getting part head, part body) usually leaves them with a sliver which may sometimes end up being a functional "One Shot" if you / a squadmate has already done some damage to them (or Garrus pulls his classic "my kill" with the Incisor...damn turian's made me elbow air more times than I can remember)
Squad fire support will not work if you are blocking their LOS. You have to maneuver yourself a little bit. With the Scimitar you can Charge a group of enemies, quickly strip their defenses, and then Charge the next group without completely killing the first. You're squadmate's Squad Cryo Ammo will freeze the first group almost instantly.
#43
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Posté 12 février 2011 - 01:59
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Another good thing with the Mattock is that you can line up several enemies and then punch through all of them in one long burst. It's like how you line up two Scions and use one as cover from the other's Shockwave - except with standard mooks, when they come at you in a long corridor, or when they are lined up behind a wall. Just Charge the one in front/on the edge, line them up, and punch away. I call it the "Mattock Skewer".
With Inferno Ammo, it's barbecued Mattock Skewer. With Cryo Ammo, it's Mattock Popsicle. Your bullets are the stick.
With Inferno Ammo, it's barbecued Mattock Skewer. With Cryo Ammo, it's Mattock Popsicle. Your bullets are the stick.
#44
Posté 12 février 2011 - 12:45
JaegerBane
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Schneidend wrote...
The Mattock is theoretically the best weapon for ANY class as long as the player can click/press fast enough to maximize its DPS. This isn't really debatable. Overpowered weapons are overpowered, exactly as it says on the tin.
Yeah. I can't help but feel that this thread is stating the obvious. Mattock on <insert class> = Best <insert class> might have been a more appropriate term.
#45
Posté 12 février 2011 - 12:59
Kronner
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JaegerBane wrote...
Yeah. I can't help but feel that this thread is stating the obvious. Mattock on = Best might have been a more appropriate term.
Not really. Except for the bugged RoF not slowdown during AR/Heavy Charge, Mattock is powerful, but isn't any better than some of the other weapons.
Modifié par Kronner, 12 février 2011 - 01:09 .
#46
Posté 12 février 2011 - 02:12
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Kronner wrote...
Not really. Except for the bugged RoF not slowdown during AR/Heavy Charge, Mattock is powerful, but isn't any better than some of the other weapons.
As I understand it, it's DPS completely eclipses the Vindicator and renders the Revenant choice obsolete, it's performance is superior to virtually every heavy pistol and functions better at point blank range than the Katana. I know assault rifles are supposed to be all-round weapons, but being that good at so many different situations is just silly.
#47
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Posté 15 février 2011 - 03:43
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I ran a few missions against different enemies with a Claymore/Mattock Vanguard and compared the performances.
VS. Blood Pack: Mattock wins. Better Armor penetration + more frequent ignitions with Inferno Ammo. Especially when crowded by mobs of Vorcha.
VS. Geth: Claymore wins. Better Shield penetration + better knockdown effect. Geth are more easily knocked down than organics (perhaps due to their rigid structure).
VS. Blue Suns: Claymore wins more often than Mattock. Claymore OSOK's Blue Suns Heavies, which Mattock can't. But Inferno ignition is better with Mattock against densely packed crowds, and you can barrage from high ground with the Mattock after you take over the high ground with Charge. In Blue Suns N7 missions where battlefield is larger than power-lockon range, Mattock shines as you can Inferno the enemies before you can Charge them.
VS. Eclipse: About even. Eclipse is a very versatile group and strategies against them depends a lot on the specific situations.
VS. LOKI & FENRIS Mechs: Mattock edges out slightly because you can use its precision to leg the LOKI's and headhot the FENRIS's. Better Armor penetration also helps.
VS. Husks: Both have their merits. Mattock has better AP and you can leg the Husks with good aim, but Claymore has much better close quarters crowd control. I think Husks are yucky, so I prefer the Mattock.
VS. Collectors: Depends on the mission/battlefield layout. On Horizon, Claymore is better because there's lots of cover and the battlefield is not very big. In SM's Tube Run, Mattock is better because the battlefield's radius is very large and enemies are well dispersed, giving Mattock more fire time. On Collector Ship both are good but you need to change tactics accordingly.
VS. Blood Pack: Mattock wins. Better Armor penetration + more frequent ignitions with Inferno Ammo. Especially when crowded by mobs of Vorcha.
VS. Geth: Claymore wins. Better Shield penetration + better knockdown effect. Geth are more easily knocked down than organics (perhaps due to their rigid structure).
VS. Blue Suns: Claymore wins more often than Mattock. Claymore OSOK's Blue Suns Heavies, which Mattock can't. But Inferno ignition is better with Mattock against densely packed crowds, and you can barrage from high ground with the Mattock after you take over the high ground with Charge. In Blue Suns N7 missions where battlefield is larger than power-lockon range, Mattock shines as you can Inferno the enemies before you can Charge them.
VS. Eclipse: About even. Eclipse is a very versatile group and strategies against them depends a lot on the specific situations.
VS. LOKI & FENRIS Mechs: Mattock edges out slightly because you can use its precision to leg the LOKI's and headhot the FENRIS's. Better Armor penetration also helps.
VS. Husks: Both have their merits. Mattock has better AP and you can leg the Husks with good aim, but Claymore has much better close quarters crowd control. I think Husks are yucky, so I prefer the Mattock.
VS. Collectors: Depends on the mission/battlefield layout. On Horizon, Claymore is better because there's lots of cover and the battlefield is not very big. In SM's Tube Run, Mattock is better because the battlefield's radius is very large and enemies are well dispersed, giving Mattock more fire time. On Collector Ship both are good but you need to change tactics accordingly.
Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 15 février 2011 - 03:44 .
#48
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Posté 15 février 2011 - 10:15
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This is how OP the Mattock is with Soldier:
No OP is this OP.
No OP is this OP.
#49
Posté 15 février 2011 - 12:57
Kronner
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Really? That was nothing but a fairly standard run, the shooting was not even that precise and the first Scion could have been killed much faster if the player walked closer to it. Cain took care of one big group of Collectors and a Scion.
Mattock is not balanced under AR, but that was all Cain in that video.
Mattock is not balanced under AR, but that was all Cain in that video.
#50
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:56
Locutus_of_BORG
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omg, u shot miranda with the cain
