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Do you hold the things NPCs did in other playthroughs against them?


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#26
Persephone

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sylvanaerie wrote...

heh even my current PC (who is very dark) is still making the morally 'white' choices in the game (Ending the curse, sparing the tower mages and he will be doing the Circle option for Connor). The only things I have never been able to do in game is Defile the Ashes (that's just a personal anathema to me to defile someone's final remains) and to spare Loghain (cause I don't put up with crap from idiots).


Yes. Because that's what those who do spare him are bound to do. It's a requirement. -_-

#27
Hyper Cutter

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sylvanaerie wrote...
Howe never gets spared on any of my PC's (because it's built into the game to kill him) but killing him lacks the venom on a mage or an elf since I really have no personal grudge against him (unlike the Cousland who takes unholy glee at finally having his corpse at his/her feet).

:wizard: Howe was responsible for the purge of the Alienage. He'll even be all smug about it if you bring it up when talking to him during that cutscene where you meet him and Loghain face-to-face after calling the Landsmeet.

Also, I kill Vaughan every single time.

#28
Mariefoxprice83

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Wow, you learn something new every day. I didn't know you could either abandon Redcliffe or let Jowan enter the Fade!

#29
Avilia

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Against them? No, but it does colour the way I treat them in future playthroughs.

Take Eamon for instance, I've seen no evidence in game that tells me Alistair's view of him is the correct one. I'm more inclined to intense dislike for this weak, manipulative man. So...if I can thwart him I will. Usually its by having Alistair marry Anora - she'll soon see him off. My current playthrough is to give me an alternate save for DA2 so I've decided - I'm going to make Anora queen and have my PC run off into the sunset with GW Ali (very unusual for me..I'm usually a Zev girl). Should be fun! muahaha

Edit - actually, yes I suppose I do.  I'm only human after all :innocent:

Modifié par Avilia, 07 février 2011 - 08:57 .


#30
shatteredstar56

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Yes, I do.



I hate hate hate Isolde. She made the biggest mistake in hiring a Circle mage, when they shouldn't have even been for hire, didn't check into his background, and BIG SURPRISE, he poisons her husband. So she locks a blood mage and maleficar in the dungeon, which is only going to ****** him off, and sends the knights away to find a magical Urn of Ashes that hasn't been seen in millennia, if it ever was seen.

As soon as Connor gets possessed, she goes back and blames Jowan again, with her remaining guards. When he can't stop what's going on, she gets more family involved, namely Teagan, who was lucky enough to escape. So when he gets possessed, suddenly it's still Jowan's fault, even though he's locked in a dungeon.

I punish her every time by killing Connor, death is too much of a blessing.



I also hate Cauthrien, and Loghain, though Loghain isn't specifically an NPC....c:

Cauthrien tells me to shut up, because my betters are talking. Loghain isn't royal, first of all, he's a commoner who happened to have a brain. He's not better then the Grey Warden, because she did the exact same thing, if not more then he did.

Cauthrien then tries to kill me before the Landsmeet, but what would she say? That the Warden suddenly had an apoplexy with her friends, and their blood managed to somehow get on her? Her loyalty is commendable, but only until the point when it makes her stupid.

#31
Shinobu

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sylvanaerie wrote...

heh even my current PC (who is very dark) is still making the morally 'white' choices in the game (Ending the curse, sparing the tower mages and he will be doing the Circle option for Connor). The only things I have never been able to do in game is ...  to spare Loghain (cause I don't put up with crap from idiots).


(snip)

You should try letting him live once. He has some very interesting conversations with the Warden and a great banter with Zev. Also, you haven't lived until you've had Alistair scream at you at least once. :unsure:

#32
Shinobu

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shatteredstar56 wrote...

Yes, I do.

(snip)

I also hate Cauthrien, and Loghain, though Loghain isn't specifically an NPC....c:
Cauthrien tells me to shut up, because my betters are talking. Loghain isn't royal, first of all, he's a commoner who happened to have a brain. He's not better then the Grey Warden, because she did the exact same thing, if not more then he did.
Cauthrien then tries to kill me before the Landsmeet, but what would she say? That the Warden suddenly had an apoplexy with her friends, and their blood managed to somehow get on her? Her loyalty is commendable, but only until the point when it makes her stupid.


You can convince her to step aside (because Loghain is out of control) if you have enough coercion. Yeah, I find Cauthrien insufferable but usually let her live.

I count Loghain as an NPC since he's not the Warden.

#33
Shinobu

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Avilia wrote...

Against them? No, but it does colour the way I treat them in future playthroughs.

Take Eamon for instance, I've seen no evidence in game that tells me Alistair's view of him is the correct one. I'm more inclined to intense dislike for this weak, manipulative man. So...if I can thwart him I will. Usually its by having Alistair marry Anora - she'll soon see him off. My current playthrough is to give me an alternate save for DA2 so I've decided - I'm going to make Anora queen and have my PC run off into the sunset with GW Ali (very unusual for me..I'm usually a Zev girl). Should be fun! muahaha

Edit - actually, yes I suppose I do.  I'm only human after all :innocent:


Yes, I'm not fond of Eamon for what he did to Alistair and Goldanna, but don't take it out on him. Yes, ride off into the sunset with Alistair -- it's fun!

#34
Shadow of Light Dragon

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shatteredstar56 wrote...

I punish her every time by killing Connor, death is too much of a blessing.



Huh. Well, I guess it sucks to be Connor; he was just trying to save his dad.

#35
Shadow of Light Dragon

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Shinobu wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

heh even my current PC (who is very dark) is still making the morally 'white' choices in the game (Ending the curse, sparing the tower mages and he will be doing the Circle option for Connor). The only things I have never been able to do in game is ...  to spare Loghain (cause I don't put up with crap from idiots).


(snip)

You should try letting him live once. He has some very interesting conversations with the Warden and a great banter with Zev. Also, you haven't lived until you've had Alistair scream at you at least once. :unsure:


Yes, you should let him live at least once. :) You also get to insult Loghain to his face, call him names, blame him for stuff...it's awesome RP.

#36
Shinobu

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

heh even my current PC (who is very dark) is still making the morally 'white' choices in the game (Ending the curse, sparing the tower mages and he will be doing the Circle option for Connor). The only things I have never been able to do in game is ...  to spare Loghain (cause I don't put up with crap from idiots).


(snip)

You should try letting him live once. He has some very interesting conversations with the Warden and a great banter with Zev. Also, you haven't lived until you've had Alistair scream at you at least once. :unsure:


Yes, you should let him live at least once. :) You also get to insult Loghain to his face, call him names, blame him for stuff...it's awesome RP.


Oh, and if you really hate him, you can also DESTROY HIS SOUL and everyone will think you're a great person for doing it. :?

#37
Shadow of Light Dragon

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Shinobu wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

heh even my current PC (who is very dark) is still making the morally 'white' choices in the game (Ending the curse, sparing the tower mages and he will be doing the Circle option for Connor). The only things I have never been able to do in game is ...  to spare Loghain (cause I don't put up with crap from idiots).


(snip)

You should try letting him live once. He has some very interesting conversations with the Warden and a great banter with Zev. Also, you haven't lived until you've had Alistair scream at you at least once. :unsure:


Yes, you should let him live at least once. :) You also get to insult Loghain to his face, call him names, blame him for stuff...it's awesome RP.


Oh, and if you really hate him, you can also DESTROY HIS SOUL and everyone will think you're a great person for doing it. :?


And if you hate Anora you can tell her Loghain deserved it. :/

#38
Marduksdragon

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Sometimes. Two big ones: I find it hard to harm or betray Jowan and not to kill Vaughn. Mostly I justify it as intuition with mannerisms or dialogue that my chars have but I don't see. Body postures. All that stuff. I also find it difficult to kill Loghain. Most of my characters do understand why he did what he did and can't blame him for anything more than the manner in which he allowed Howe to "help" him.

#39
sylvanaerie

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Well my latest run (Roland Cousland) was so damaged by Howe's destruction of his home that I actually found myself making choices in the game that reflected it.

First he was conscripted, having to be dragged away from his parents because he wanted to protect them or die with them (yea I know it's the latter but this is RP). Then he saved the Circle, (thinking of them kind of like a very very VERY odd family). Then put Harrowmont on the throne because of rumors of Bhelen's fraticide and possible patricide. He almost sided with Zathrian once he learned what the humans did to his children but then realized that Zathrien was hurting not only his own people (Family) but a 'family' of werewolves too. (Told you he was messed up). So he made Zathrien lift the curse. When he got to Redcliffe, he decided to go Circle route (though I often kill Isolde) because he didn't want the little boy to (possibly) lose both his parents.

In the Landsmeet, he actually spared Cauthrien (Just seemed the right thing to do) and then when the time came to off Loghain, I had to sort of metagame that moment. I never do like the WAY he dies even if I do enjoy killing him. So, I RPed that he remembered what it was like to watch his father dying in front of him and didn't want to inflict that on Anora. SO I guess, in a way I DO allow actions in other games to reflect some of what my PC's do, I don't always. Usually I start with a fresh mindset.

Alistair was at warm (I put him in camp and kind of ignored him). He was...not happy at Roland's decision. When he asked if Roland had lost his mind I actually said out loud "Yes, yes he has." They parted ways since Roland wouldn't let Anora kill him (again family even if he wasn't close to Alistair he was a brother Warden) and Loghain joined the group.

I proceeded back to camp after everything was resolved to sell one final time and get prepared cause Loghain's gear/stats sucked and I had to fix him. Thank goodness for mods. Don't know how anyone can use that guy on Xbox or PS3 cause i mean REALLY a 31 strength on a warrior?? Epic fail, Bioware.

Once there, I realized I hadn't been to camp after waking Eamon. Imagine my surprise hearing Alistair's voice telling Roland how happy he was that we didn't kill the Arl's family. Weirdest part is it was coming from Loghain.

Creeeeepy.

Anyway a couple conversations pretty much avoiding the crap he pulled (yes Persephone I DO perceive his actions in the game as 'crap' he pulled and frankly I consider that the most polite description I can give of it) got his approval to 10 even a bit of a chuckle for one comment (I think about shoving a knife in his kidneys being a bad idea since he was the one suggesting it).

Frankly I don't like him, still don't like him. A few barely civil conversations and some amusing banters do not a 'like' make with me, but that playthrough my PC barely talked to anyone (befriending only the females in the camp).   I didn't get to witness Zev's banter with him because at that point Zevran had already died (he turned and joined the Crows in Denerim, another thing in game I had never tried before).  It was really hard not talking to my 2 favorite companions but this was a very odd playthrough anyway.  Sort of tongue in cheek for me.

Got to knock out three endings I hadn't done before. Redeemer, US with Anora eulogy, which is actually kind of nice, and DR with Loghain knocking up the swamp witch. Frankly I have to say Loghain's comment at that point was more amusing than Alistair's or more precisely Morrigan's response to it.

And when he fed Loghain to the Archdemon, Roland told his daughter that her father went willingly to his end.  She had already lost her dad, no need to rub salt in the wound.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 février 2011 - 01:04 .


#40
Persephone

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sylvanaerie wrote...

Anyway a couple conversations pretty much avoiding the crap he pulled (yes Persephone I DO perceive his actions in the game as 'crap' he pulled and frankly I consider that the most polite description I can give of it) got his approval to 10 even a bit of a chuckle for one comment (I think about shoving a knife in his kidneys being a bad idea since he was the one suggesting it).

Frankly I don't like him, still don't like him. A few barely civil conversations and some amusing banters do not a 'like' make with me, but that playthrough my PC barely talked to anyone (befriending only the females in the camp).

Got to knock out three endings I hadn't done before. Redeemer, US with Anora eulogy, which is actually kind of nice, and DR with Loghain knocking up the swamp witch. Frankly I have to say Loghain's comment at that point was more amusing than Alistair's or more precisely Morrigan's response to it.

And when he fed Loghain to the Archdemon, Roland told his daughter that her father went willingly to his end.  She had already lost her dad, no need to rub salt in the wound.


Well, that's interesting.

Given I was mentioned by name, I may just say a word or two. Perceive it in any way you like. that is your right. As for his decisions, I'll have to pull the Kain quote again, his response to Raziel asking him whether or not he had a conscience:

"Conscience...? You dare speak to me of conscience? Only when you have felt the full gravity of choice should you dare to question my judgment! Your life’s span is a flicker compared to the mass of doubt and regret that I have borne since Mortanius first turned me from the light..."

BTW, if you still have a camp save....when he asks you: "What do you want from me?", counter with "What do you want?". If you treat him with kindness (Or cheat, using the Feastday stuff), he will open up much more. (Also get Ejoslin's fixes for his dialogue)

And he always goes willingly, no matter what. That's one thing I like about him the most. His resolve to atone by sacrificing everything never falters.

#41
sylvanaerie

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I do have camp saves and I may go back and talk with him more but frankly it was a larky playthrough, something I'd never do if I was thinking about it. Rogue Roland was such that he cared about nothing (except for ending the Blight) and no one (except for Leliana). I was only able to tolerate Loghain because of this detachment. And the immense amount of amusement I took from glitches (like the one with the disembodied Alistair voice).
I also run a Teagan mod made for me by Cmess tha replaces the PC and Alistair (or Loghain) with Teagan during the DR.  Imagine again my surprise when I saw Roland advancing on a very very frightened looking Teagan instead of Loghain and Morrigan.
Not sure which would have damaged me more...Posted Image

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 février 2011 - 01:12 .


#42
Persephone

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sylvanaerie wrote...

I do have camp saves and I may go back and talk with him more but frankly it was a larky playthrough, something I'd never do if I was thinking about it. Rogue Roland was such that he cared about nothing (except for ending the Blight) and no one (except for Leliana). I was only able to tolerate Loghain because of this detachment. And the immense amount of amusement I took from glitches (like the one with the disembodied Alistair voice).


I understand. I have playthroughs like that too. Gotta try everything at least once, even if there are things I'll never do again. (Defile the ashes, kill the Dalish etc.)

#43
ejoslin

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Hah, to get back to the original question...



It took me a few playthroughs to forgive Alistair for dumping my city elf then refusing to let her die (I cried when he dumped my city elf -- I was crushed). I've never been able to romance him all the way through again, but at least I don't take the really mean choices with him and laugh my head off.

#44
LobselVith8

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Persephone wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

heh even my current PC (who is very dark) is still making the morally 'white' choices in the game (Ending the curse, sparing the tower mages and he will be doing the Circle option for Connor). The only things I have never been able to do in game is Defile the Ashes (that's just a personal anathema to me to defile someone's final remains) and to spare Loghain (cause I don't put up with crap from idiots).


Yes. Because that's what those who do spare him are bound to do. It's a requirement. Posted Image


Sparing Loghain is no different than sparing Sten or Zevran. You give a person a chance to make amends and make something out of their lives. Despite all of Sten's anti-magic and anti-mage upbringing, the Warden from the Circle of Magi can become his "kadan" (I believe the Warden was referenced as a "unicorn" by one of the writers). Loghain is the Hero of River Dane, and tying his reputation to the Grey Wardens can only do a lot of good for their legacy in Ferelden. For my Warden, Anora accepted my boon for the Circle and a hardened Alistair was still alive. Loghain came to respect the Warden and admitted he'd keep his thoughts about why my Warden was still alive to himself.

For the OP, Vaughan always dies. He's not needed for the Landsmeet and I have no intention of letting a serial rapist gain the role of Arl over the people of Denerim.

#45
Mariefoxprice83

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If I can convince the Landsmeet that a marriage between myself and Alistair will be good for the realm - assuming that my plans to get Alistair fall in love with me do work out - can I still choose to conscript Loghain in order to make him do the DR? I know Alistair will leave the group but would he still want to marry my PC after the battle?

#46
Giggles_Manically

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Uhm noo.



His dialouge if you spare Loghain and talk about "us":

There is no "us" just me and the woman who spared Duncan's Murderer.

#47
Mariefoxprice83

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Thanks, didn't think so. Just wanted to see if I could do another of the 4 possible endings. Sacrificing myself and Alistair is out of the question and I have done the Dark Ritual before. I'll stick with it for this one.

Modifié par Mariefoxprice83, 09 février 2011 - 05:11 .


#48
ejoslin

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Alistair + Marriage has nothing to do with love... though it's an autopass of the persuade check if he is!

Edit: Me, my second playthrough.  Human noble who ignored Alistair for the most part...

Queenie CousCous: We're getting married, Alistair.  Oh, that heir thing?  maybe not YOUR heir, but I'll be trying!  Heh, yes, with the elf!  I'll be in Gwaren, being very unsecretive.  MY CITY ELF THAT YOU DUMPED MY LAST PLAYTHROUGH WOULD HAVE TREATED YOU RIGHT!

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 février 2011 - 05:56 .


#49
Mariefoxprice83

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Ha, I want them to be in love though. :-)

#50
mousestalker

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ejoslin wrote...
Edit: Me, my second playthrough.  Human noble who ignored Alistair for the most part...

Queenie CousCous: We're getting married, Alistair.  Oh, that heir thing?  maybe not YOUR heir, but I'll be trying!  Heh, yes, with the elf!  I'll be in Gwaren, being very unsecretive.  MY CITY ELF THAT YOU DUMPED MY LAST PLAYTHROUGH WOULD HAVE TREATED YOU RIGHT!


+10 Internets for j00!  :D