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How is this a Dragon Age: Origins sequel anymore?


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#176
JrayM16

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Deadmac wrote...

Riloux wrote...
You take out elf and dwarf creation choices. (The most prominent aspect of Origins.) Why? Why, why, why, why, why, why? Why infinity? Why? Instead of giving us more options, you took them out entirely. Makes for terrific roleplaying.
....
Why all these changes? You had a great thing going with DAO. Couldn't we just have more of that? With each new piece of news that informed me about features being stripped away or becoming less complex in Dragon Age 2, I became progessively less interested. It seems like you've just moved backwards.

Personally, I understand your frustratons. You make several great points.

Did you also happen to notice that the Warden kills Hawke in "Dragon Age: Origins"?


Wait a minute, are just talking about some guy with a beard you kill in LOthering?

#177
Deadmac

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NeroSparda wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

Riloux wrote...
You take out elf and dwarf creation choices. (The most prominent aspect of Origins.) Why? Why, why, why, why, why, why? Why infinity? Why? Instead of giving us more options, you took them out entirely. Makes for terrific roleplaying.
....
Why all these changes? You had a great thing going with DAO. Couldn't we just have more of that? With each new piece of news that informed me about features being stripped away or becoming less complex in Dragon Age 2, I became progessively less interested. It seems like you've just moved backwards.

Personally, I understand your frustratons. You make several great points.

Did you also happen to notice that the Warden kills Hawke in "Dragon Age: Origins"?


Wait, what? How?!

Wow! People did not notice this? Lol...

Yeah, you kill Hawke on some summit trying to rescue a female npc. I am trying to remember the exact location...

JrayM16 wrote...
Wait a minute, are just talking about some guy with a beard you kill in LOthering?

No. I believe it was in the Elven Alienage. I am playing the game through again. When I find his exact location, I will post it in a thread for everyone to find.

Modifié par Deadmac, 06 février 2011 - 07:49 .


#178
Gavinthelocust

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Deadmac wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

Riloux wrote...
You take out elf and dwarf creation choices. (The most prominent aspect of Origins.) Why? Why, why, why, why, why, why? Why infinity? Why? Instead of giving us more options, you took them out entirely. Makes for terrific roleplaying.
....
Why all these changes? You had a great thing going with DAO. Couldn't we just have more of that? With each new piece of news that informed me about features being stripped away or becoming less complex in Dragon Age 2, I became progessively less interested. It seems like you've just moved backwards.

Personally, I understand your frustratons. You make several great points.

Did you also happen to notice that the Warden kills Hawke in "Dragon Age: Origins"?


Wait, what? How?!

Wow! People did not notice this? Lol...

Yeah, you kill Hawke on some summit trying to rescue a female npc. I am trying to remember the exact location...


Hawke was never in DAO, you're probably thinking of someone else.

#179
Ensgnblack

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Riloux wrote...

You take out elf and dwarf creation choices. (The most prominent aspect of Origins.) Why? Why, why, why, why, why, why? Why infinity? Why? Instead of giving us more options, you took them out entirely. Makes for terrific roleplaying.


As ha been said,  this is Dragon  Age 2, not Dragon Age:Origins 2.  Also the origin story was not that important.  It changed  the first few hours of the game and then only a few lines of dialogue.

You change the art style completely so there is no consistency between the games anymore. Dragon Age 2 doesn't even look like a part of Thedas anymore. And before you tell me it's not Ferelden, I will reply that I severely doubt the landscape and architecture would change so dramatically moving a little north of Ferelden.


Art was one of the weakest areas  of the game.  Everything was brown.  Everything.
 

Varric. I don't understand the love for this character. He doesn't look anything like the dwarves we see in DA:O. He looks like a short stumpy human. His face is not dwarf-like in the least.


Fair critique, but not gamebreaking.

No aerial tactical camera. This tells me the game doesn't require much tactical management of your party members and will be more or less like a hack and slash game.


This was a PC feature, so half the  game playerbase didnt even see it.  Also, not all PC users even used it.  They still have a zoom out.   I miss the feature, but it is not that big of a deal.

Dialogue Wheel; Paraphrasing. Taking the fun out of having to read through the choices, figure out the tones of each line and picking an option. Now, you have pretty colors telling you what's bad and what's good, your only two options.

Approval. Either they love you or dislike you slightly. Can't be evil anymore.


You could not really be  evil in DAO.  You saved the world and many people in it.   You could do so selfishly, but you still saved the world.  You helped ferelden get a ruler, you stopped a blight, you allowed the dwarves to continue their society, you helped either the Dalish or the  wolves, never side was truly evil as each had their good points, you helped the mages or chantry, once again each  side had  merits,  etc. 

You were not evil.

Not to mention the new approval system  is SO much  better.  It allows you to  not artificially get ppl to like you with gifts and you can RP  more with your party.

Edit: One more point. You're not in charge of your character's destiny anymore. You're just watching the already established story of some random human unfold while your role is to fill it in with colorful dialogue. 


Really?  You stop the Blight.  No  matter what.   It is established essentially.  Here however, you are acting out a story that has happened.  HOW it happens is just as  creative as it happeningin the first place.  DA2 has  MORE ways for  you to change things, MORE ways for you to see those consequences.



All due  respect, you have no clue what you are complaining about.   The  game has been improved; in many ways people may feel like some of these changes are steps back, but overall the game has been  vastly improved.   Most of your complaints are not taste issues, they are incorrect analyses of how the first game  operated.

#180
Deadmac

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Gavinthelocust wrote...
Hawke was never in DAO, you're probably thinking of someone else.

Yes, he was in "Dragon Age: Origins". Exact name and character design. Just with less details.

Modifié par Deadmac, 06 février 2011 - 07:52 .


#181
JrayM16

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Deadmac wrote...

NeroSparda wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

Riloux wrote...
You take out elf and dwarf creation choices. (The most prominent aspect of Origins.) Why? Why, why, why, why, why, why? Why infinity? Why? Instead of giving us more options, you took them out entirely. Makes for terrific roleplaying.
....
Why all these changes? You had a great thing going with DAO. Couldn't we just have more of that? With each new piece of news that informed me about features being stripped away or becoming less complex in Dragon Age 2, I became progessively less interested. It seems like you've just moved backwards.

Personally, I understand your frustratons. You make several great points.

Did you also happen to notice that the Warden kills Hawke in "Dragon Age: Origins"?


Wait, what? How?!

Wow! People did not notice this? Lol...

Yeah, you kill Hawke on some summit trying to rescue a female npc. I am trying to remember the exact location...

JrayM16 wrote...
Wait a minute, are just talking about some guy with a beard you kill in LOthering?

No. I believe it was in the Elven Alienage. I am playing the game through again. When I find his exact location, I will post it in a thread for everyone to find.


Hmm, I don't remember this at all.  And given teh plot path of DA2 Hawke should never be in the elven alienage.

#182
JrayM16

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Deadmac wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...
Hawke was never in DAO, you're probably thinking of someone else.

Yes, he was in "Dragon Age: Origins". Exact name and character design. Just with less details.


Pics or it didn't happen.  Image IPB

No, just give us an exact location to verify.  Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, you are incorrect.

#183
ALVIG824

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first, get your facts straight.



second, no one said you had to play the game. if you dont like the idea, leave this forum

#184
Deadmac

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JrayM16 wrote...
Hmm, I don't remember this at all.  And given teh plot path of DA2 Hawke should never be in the elven alienage.

* shurgs *

As I said in the quoted piece you used, I will need to find the exact location. He was either in "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening". When you are sent to rescue an npc, you bump into him with two other thugs.

#185
Morroian

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TMZuk wrote...

I believe the answer to your question is that someone in Bioware/EA has utterly miscalculated what made DA:O such a succes. 

They were planning the changes before DAO was a hit which appears to be one of the reasons why Brent Knowles left Bioware early on in the development process.

TMZuk wrote...

Already Awakenings and most of the DLC showed that Bioware was attempting to shift the attention away from the troublesome roleplay, and rather serve us more pointless combat.

No it was clearly because of the expense. They didn't have the budget. The changes to character interaction and the characterisation options for the main character show them to be increasing in complexity in that area even if some other options are more limited.

#186
SkyWard20

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Falls Edge wrote...

I'll just leave this here for debate unless a mod wants to come in and correct her.


Well, lets look into artistic decisions made because of such testing and statistics.
Only
5% of players choose to play as a Dwarf, or beat the game as a Dwarf
thus, you should not waste time making a playable Dwarf race, Elves were
similar in statistic except less so.

Thus, you could possibly,
if you kind of veer off into assumption territory think that this could
have affected the decision that made us forced to play as the human race
this time.

But this had nothing to do with Dlc and was counted
using an online tracking system on xboxlive such as the leaderboards and
what not. Or was it a survey? I forget.

 An implication of
what the original question was though, is that 'should what the players
want be more important than overall good quality work? Or "Should we
give the players what they want even if it doesn't make sense
artistically? Should people get what they want because it's cool? Is
that part of a serious work? similar to classics in other forms of art?
Did they read statistics or if you look at historical evidence some
works of art were not appreciated at the time of their creation and were
later famous when the culture changed.

So this is quite the loaded question, giving the players what they want does not necessarily, a good story make. But maybe not.

You
could argue that the developers would simply spend more time on other
parts of the game therefore making the overall experience better I
guess.

Edit: In short, when you change stuff someone somewhere is going to get upset.


Source? Your statistics hold no credence if you don't source your claims. I'm sure most Dragon Age players have tried more than 2 origins, at least.

#187
JrayM16

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Deadmac wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
Hmm, I don't remember this at all.  And given teh plot path of DA2 Hawke should never be in the elven alienage.

* shurgs *

As I said in the quoted piece you used, I will need to find the exact location. He was either in "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening". When you are sent to rescue an npc, you bump into him with two other thugs.


Ah, I know what you're thinking of.  But it's not Hawke.

In Awakening there is a guy in a summit-looking thing with two thugs and a female hostage.  But I played that recently and it was definetly not Hawke.

#188
Threeparts

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Deadmac wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
Hmm, I don't remember this at all.  And given teh plot path of DA2 Hawke should never be in the elven alienage.

* shurgs *

As I said in the quoted piece you used, I will need to find the exact location. He was either in "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening". When you are sent to rescue an npc, you bump into him with two other thugs.


Oh! I think you're talking about the A Daughter Ransomed quest in Awakening. I noticed a Hawk/Hawke there as well, but didn't pay attention to the character's appearance. I'll have to check my saves, because that's an amusing coincidence.

Modifié par Threeparts, 06 février 2011 - 08:18 .


#189
JrayM16

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SkyWard20 wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

I'll just leave this here for debate unless a mod wants to come in and correct her.


Well, lets look into artistic decisions made because of such testing and statistics.
Only
5% of players choose to play as a Dwarf, or beat the game as a Dwarf
thus, you should not waste time making a playable Dwarf race, Elves were
similar in statistic except less so.

Thus, you could possibly,
if you kind of veer off into assumption territory think that this could
have affected the decision that made us forced to play as the human race
this time.

But this had nothing to do with Dlc and was counted
using an online tracking system on xboxlive such as the leaderboards and
what not. Or was it a survey? I forget.

 An implication of
what the original question was though, is that 'should what the players
want be more important than overall good quality work? Or "Should we
give the players what they want even if it doesn't make sense
artistically? Should people get what they want because it's cool? Is
that part of a serious work? similar to classics in other forms of art?
Did they read statistics or if you look at historical evidence some
works of art were not appreciated at the time of their creation and were
later famous when the culture changed.

So this is quite the loaded question, giving the players what they want does not necessarily, a good story make. But maybe not.

You
could argue that the developers would simply spend more time on other
parts of the game therefore making the overall experience better I
guess.

Edit: In short, when you change stuff someone somewhere is going to get upset.


Source? Your statistics hold no credence if you don't source your claims. I'm sure most Dragon Age players have tried more than 2 origins, at least.


I believe Gaider or Lailaw confirmed this ona a thread.  The thread was about how many people played non-humans in DA:O, but it's buried somewhere and i can't find it.

#190
ALVIG824

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JrayM16 wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
Hmm, I don't remember this at all.  And given teh plot path of DA2 Hawke should never be in the elven alienage.

* shurgs *

As I said in the quoted piece you used, I will need to find the exact location. He was either in "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening". When you are sent to rescue an npc, you bump into him with two other thugs.


Ah, I know what you're thinking of.  But it's not Hawke.

In Awakening there is a guy in a summit-looking thing with two thugs and a female hostage.  But I played that recently and it was definetly not Hawke.


oh i know where hes talking about (theres a dagger i like to use in this mission). HA! def not hawke

#191
NeroSparda

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Deadmac wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
Hmm, I don't remember this at all.  And given teh plot path of DA2 Hawke should never be in the elven alienage.

* shurgs *

As I said in the quoted piece you used, I will need to find the exact location. He was either in "Dragon Age: Origins" or "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening". When you are sent to rescue an npc, you bump into him with two other thugs.


It couldn't be possible for Origins, as Hawke and his/her family would be long gone to the Free Marches after Lothering was destroyed... And there moments when generic characters look similar. But it would be a lol moment since my mage Warden had killed her relative without knowing, though still not likely as Awakening is still in Ferelden.

#192
Kinkaku

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I understand your concerns but this was Biowares decision and for me I find it as an improvement



As fars I know but final judgments can't be made until the game comes out

#193
Deadmac

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NeroSparda wrote...
It couldn't be possible for Origins, as Hawke and his/her family would be long gone to the Free Marches after Lothering was destroyed... And there moments when generic characters look similar. But it would be a lol moment since my mage Warden had killed her relative without knowing, though still not likely as Awakening is still in Ferelden.

If you think about how BioWare reused Isabela from "Dragon Age: Origins", who is to say they didn't reinvent the Hawke character from "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening"? *shrugs* Remember, they also brought over Flemmeth.

Modifié par Deadmac, 06 février 2011 - 08:07 .


#194
Threeparts

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 img651.imageshack.us/img651/9153/hawkawakenings.png

Yeah, definitely not DAII's Hawke, but I'm surprised you remembered at all! He's named Tough Bandit in the A Daughter Ransomed fight, but the conversation beforehand names him as Hawk.

Modifié par Threeparts, 06 février 2011 - 08:10 .


#195
Morroian

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Deadmac wrote...

If you think about how BioWare reused Isabela from "Dragon Age: Origins", who is to say they didn't reinvent the Hawke character from "Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening"? *shrugs* Remember, they also brought over Flemmeth.

Reinvent a villain who appeared for at most 2 minutes as hero?

#196
ladydesire

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Riloux wrote...


Edit: One more point. You're not in charge of your character's destiny anymore. You're just watching the already established story of some random human unfold while your role is to fill it in with colorful dialogue.


All we know for 100% certain is that Hawke will become the Champion of Kirkwall; we have full control of exactly what kind of "Champion" he or she becomes, just like we had control of what kind of Grey Warden our Wardens became.

#197
Deadmac

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Threeparts wrote...
img651.imageshack.us/img651/9153/hawkawakenings.png
Yeah, definitely not DAII's Hawke, but I'm surprised you remembered at all!

I don't know. They redesigned Isabela. *shrusg*

Morroian wrote...
Reinvent a villain who appeared for at most 2 minutes as hero?

Isabela's part was pretty darn short. You play cards with her for a few seconds, and then one of your fellow companions help you cheat. Her part wasn't significant.

Modifié par Deadmac, 06 février 2011 - 08:13 .


#198
JrayM16

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Deadmac wrote...

Threeparts wrote...
img651.imageshack.us/img651/9153/hawkawakenings.png
Yeah, definitely not DAII's Hawke, but I'm surprised you remembered at all!

I don't know. They redesigned Isabela.

Second, why are you surprised I remembered him at all?

Morroian wrote...
Reinvent a villain who appeared for at most 2 minutes as hero?

Isabela's part was pretty darn short. You play cards with her for a few seconds, and then one of your fellow companions help you cheat. Her part wasn't significant.


Bioware would've started DA2 by the time Awakening was being made.  Why on Earth would they put DA2's amin protagonist in a random sidequest in Awakening in a place where he shouldn't be and make him killable?  Basic logic dictates that it is not Hawke.

#199
Morroian

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Deadmac wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Reinvent a villain who appeared for at most 2 minutes as hero?

Isabela's part was pretty darn short. You play cards with her for a few seconds, and then one of your fellow companions help you cheat. Her part wasn't significant.

She teaches you one of the specialisations, thats significant. And she as memorable as a character. The guy in Awakenings was a 2 bit villain.

#200
NeroSparda

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We are still forgetting something. "Hawk", possibly a first name, I might be wrong though. "Hawke", is the last name. Notice something that is missing?