392 réponses à ce sujet

[ApolloCloud]

Greetings.

I'd consider myself a fan of great storytelling. I
like to read, I like to watch movies and good TV shows, and when it
comes to videogames, I like the more story driven kind, which is why I
stick with the RPG, adventure, and action-adventure genres. I'm even
somewhat of a storyteller myself.

I am also not one of those people that looks down upon videogames as a storytelling medium and
artform. I'm a big fan of story driven videogames, I recognise their
greatness, and the likes of Metal Gear Solid, Xenogears, Ever17: The Out
of Infinity and Final Fantasy are among my favorite stories of all
time, alongside the book, TV, and movie counterparts of such stories as
Lost, The Prestige, Memento, and Childhood's End.

I came into
Mass Effect expecting great things based on the praise the series has
been getting and I can't help but feel almost annoyed at the people who I
feel were overhyping the game, as I wanted, and expected it to be at
least close to as great as people claim it to be, and from where I'm
standing it really isn't. My issue with Mass Effect, and as someone with
a wealth of experience in the field of storytelling, isn't that it's
not good. It's perfectly good. My issue is just that it's not, in any
way, great.

We have a cliched, formulaic plot set within the
confines of an unimaginative, unoriginal setting. It's entirely lacking
of a good measure of complexity, and psychological, spiritual and
philosophical depth, instead only possessing the political and cultural
depth you'll find in any expansive wider universe themed story. The
emotional and dramatic value can at best be described as mediocre. The
voice acting is good, but nothing spectacular. The art design is the
epitome of an uninspired vision, striving to be as similar to the real
world as possible, or where the Sci Fi elements come into play, as
similar to what they imagine it would truly be like, in no way distinct
from the feel established by a large number of generic Sci Fi movies out
there. The music, while good, is still clearly lacking; certainly
nothing as powerful or atmospheric as the kind of tracks you would find
in a Nobuo Uematsu or Yasunori Mitsuda soundtrack. Even the choice based
mechanics deliver nothing truly new; the basic dialogue options have
been found in numerous other games and are done far more effectively and
meaningfully in the vast majority of visual novels out there such as
Ever17, Remember11 and Phantom of the Inferno, and importing your
decisions into other games has also been done by numerous other games, a
quick example being the early Suikoden games where you could actually
recruit the main character of the first game in the second game
depending on choices made in the first. And as said, it does absolutely
nothing new with the system; the Infinity series of visual novels on the
other hand incorporated the many worlds interpretation into its choice
making to make all the different choice you can make come alive and all
fit into the greater whole; the visual novel Kagetsu Tohya had the main
character relive the same day over and over again in a manner similar to
that seen in Groundhog Day, with new choice options opening up each day
depending on what choices you make along the way, taking each day
further and further away from a set outline with each day you relive.
Those are some examples of great things you can do with such a choice
based system. Mass Effect on the other hand, does absolutely nothing new
with it.

So yes, I really don't see what it is that people love
so much about Mass Effect's storyline. The Final Fantasy series has been
far more imaginative with its storytelling, with such storylines as
that of VII, where the game places you in the role of Cloud, an
individual who's memories had earlier been intertwined with that of
Zach's without his knowing, creating a completely new personality
distinct from that of either of them, journeying through a world that
both seperately lived in and intricately weaving in his current
perception of his past with the state of affairs of the world and the
recollections of those around him, or that of Final Fantasy X, where you
take on the role of a character who's not actually even real, but
simply a physical manifestation of the memories of the past of the
dreaming Aeon summoned craetures. Mass Effect's storyline on the other
hand doesn't have much more to it than a group of individuals banding
together to stop a great and powerful alien menace with the basic impact
of their actions and events on the political side of things being as
you'd expect in such a story. And what's ironic is that the same
individuals who overhype Mass Effect to ridiculous extremes will also
critisice the Final Fantasy series, a series that makes a habit of
creating imaginative settings and storylines, for being generic.

Anyways, would somebody be able to explain what exactly it is about Mass Effect that they appear to be so enamored by?

[ApolloCloud]

Not exactly sure why the text came out that way but oh well...

[Mister Mida]

Well that's just your opinion, dude.
Considering ME is heavily inspired by old school sci-fi and I don't have much experience on that field I thought it was great. And these days, hardly anything is original anyway.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 06 février 2011 - 06:55 .

[Lumikki]

You are right, Mass Effect doesn't really do anything new in story telling, but it's still nice game to play with.



PS: Text what is copy pasted often will be caped max numbers of character per line in this forum..

[meh_cd]

I like it because it's grittier than Star Wars - along the lines of the Aliens franchise. That and it has a lot of Blade Runner in it.



I enjoy Mass Effect more than Mass Effect 2, but ME2 was still a great game.

[ApolloCloud]

Well it's all well and good to say that you're entitled to your opinion of it being good. You certainly are. However what I'm addressing are claims of it being notable good. Exceptionally goood. These are things that kind of require it to be in some way original or differentiated from the norm, otherwise it doesn't qualify as an "exception" or "point of note". Mass Effect isn't, in any way, distinct. If you like Mass Effect, you like the group that it belongs to. Mass Effect, however, cannot be exceptionnaly great, as it doesn't really offer anything to seperate it from other members of that same group it resides. What I mainly don't get is all these claims of Mass Effect runing other games for people or revolutionising video gaming or advancing video games as an art form when it doesn't really add anything new to what other games already have done.

[ApolloCloud]

By the same token, you can dislike Metal Gear Solid or Xenogears, and you're entitled to your opinion of them being bad, but at the same time, unlike Mass Effect, you can at least objectively state that they have the capacity to be exceptionally good, notably good.

[Mister Mida]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Well it's all well and good to say that you're entitled to your opinion of it being good. You certainly are. However what I'm addressing are claims of it being notable good. Exceptionally goood. These are things that kind of require it to be in some way original or differentiated from the norm, otherwise it doesn't qualify as an "exception" or "point of note". Mass Effect isn't, in any way, distinct. If you like Mass Effect, you like the group that it belongs to. Mass Effect, however, cannot be exceptionnaly great, as it doesn't really offer anything to seperate it from other members of that same group it resides. What I mainly don't get is all these claims of Mass Effect runing other games for people or revolutionising video gaming or advancing video games as an art form when it doesn't really add anything new to what other games already have done.

Just asking, which games are that exactly?

Modifié par Mister Mida, 06 février 2011 - 07:16 .

[ianmcdonald]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 06 février 2011 - 07:33 .

[Mister Mida]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 06 février 2011 - 07:34 .

[Dane Seagal]

Massive text crits me for over 9000 CBA points.



Anyway, Mass Effect doesn't do anything new, it's your typical Bioware story. Humanity is awesome and needs to save the universe.



The world around the main storyline is awesome though. Don't tell me you don't think the Krogan genocide is a great side-story

[meh_cd]

ApolloCloud wrote...

By the same token, you can dislike Metal Gear Solid or Xenogears, and you're entitled to your opinion of them being bad, but at the same time, unlike Mass Effect, you can at least objectively state that they have the capacity to be exceptionally good, notably good.

No, not really. I dislike both of those games. What now?

[MrDizazta]

I'm sorry but ApolloCloud you are nothing more than a JRPG fanboy. You bring up threads like this just to say JRPGs are better than WRPGs. Another thing I would like to say is that the Final Fantasy Series as a whole has some of the most incoherent plot of any gaming franchise. Also there is a reason why WRPGs like Mass Effect are still around while JRPGs barely exist right now.

[ApolloCloud]

"Just asking, which games are that exactly?"



What do you mean?



"No, not really. I dislike both of those games. What now?"



Did you not fully read what I said? I'm saying that finding something "good" or "bad" is a matter of personal taste. Finding something "exceptionally good" or "exceptionally bad" is a matter of personal taste and the thing being differentiated from the norm. Saying that something has the capacity for exceptional value is purely a matter of it objectively differentiating from the norm. Mass Effect does not have the capacity for being exceptional due to its fundamental normality.

[AdmiralCheez]

Yeah, I'll admit it, there really was nothing new or groundbreaking in Mass Effect, nor in Mass Effect 2. However, something about the series grows on you. My money's on the characters. They seem almost real to me, and I get really attached to them, especially in ME2.

[ApolloCloud]

Again, opinion. So now, I'm just going to assume you're a troll and leave this thread. Bye

...or perhaps it's a basic concept that you're having difficulty understanding? An exception by definition has to differ from the norm. Mass Effect, objectively speaking, doesn't. Xenogears is unique for implementing numerous philosophical and psychological concepts in fundamentally unique manners, such as modelling the setting and humanity as a whole off of the concept of the Oedypus Complex, or modelling characters off of such concepts as Nietsche's will to power or Freud's structural model of the human psyche. It objectively speaking possesses the capacity for exceptional value ebcause it is by definition an "exception".

[Phaedon]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yeah, I'll admit it, there really was nothing new or groundbreaking in Mass Effect, nor in Mass Effect 2. However, something about the series grows on you. My money's on the characters. They seem almost real to me, and I get really attached to them, especially in ME2.

Nothing is original. Star Trek was certainly not. Star Wars? Nope. And yet these sci-fi franchises are praised.
I believe that ME's story easily beats the story of 90% of the adventure games out there, both in originality and quality.

Therefore, I can't understand what the OP is trying to say.

[ApolloCloud]

MrDizaztar wrote...

I'm sorry but ApolloCloud you are nothing more than a JRPG fanboy. You bring up threads like this just to say JRPGs are better than WRPGs. Another thing I would like to say is that the Final Fantasy Series as a whole has some of the most incoherent plot of any gaming franchise. Also there is a reason why WRPGs like Mass Effect are still around while JRPGs barely exist right now.

Perhaps you need to pay more attention as there are numerous JRPG series operating in the western world (more in fact than there are WRPGs operating in the western world), let alone the amount operating in their country of origin. Square Enix alone publish far more high profile RPGs than the combined collective of WRPG publishers. Such series as Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Megami Tensei continue to be heavy hitters, and you get hundreds of other JRPG releases in the West. The likes of Mass Effect don't even get released in Japan.