392 réponses à ce sujet

[Big stupid jellyfish]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Ever17 is anything but typical.

In terms of 'gameplay' it is very typical for the visual novel genre; and the genre itself is very stagnant. Character types are recognizeable as well. Not talking about the plot, though; it was unexpected at times. Though several plot elements (like deadly viruses, time travels, being locked somewhere waiting for help to come/trying to break free, etc.) are hardly new. (Actually, such a mishmash of ideas and concepts is pretty typical for japanese plots.)

[Homebound]

Mass Effect has a lot of trees but it never adds up to a forest. I admit, some of your criticisms are very valid...It does fall in the clutches of various cliches, and some of the more emotionally packed scenes came off as being narmy. One in mind would be whenever some of the characters ended up crying. In fact, all of them ended up falling short in my eyes.

So why do I love Mass Effect?

Have you ever talked to "Archangel" about his team on "Omega?"
How about get the chance to reminisce about your long elevator rides with old faces?
Or maybe taken a moment to talk to an old mercenary about his golden years?

When I talk with these characters, it feels like they have genuinely lived their lives in this world. There is something there that quietly tells me that when I quit the game, these characters will continue living without me.

Thats why I enjoyed this game so much.

Modifié par Just_mike, 09 février 2011 - 07:56 .

[JDubb55]

I just want to know one thing. Did you have fun playing the game? I play video games I have fun, you play video games and write a critical analysis. You can enjoy great stories I do too...but is that really the only thing you look for? Sounds dull



Oh and stop mentioning inception, yes the dream concept was cool and all but was it really necessary?

[Thomas O]

This topic needs to be closed. Op you can't compair Western rpgs to Oriental or even European rpgs.

[Null_]

I have always been JRPG guy(Played all FF games since FIV,all Tri-Ace games and allot of others). I always thought non linear story telling means the story is worse..But ME proved me wrong(actually my first WRPGs that I completed).ME universe is just so well written... And during ME2 Suicide mission I had more adrealine in my veins than ever before(didnt read any guides/spoilers), even more than during COD4 tournaments.. ME makes you truly care about the characters.



The reason why ME doesnt sell in japan is.... 1. Xbox exclusive(I know I know not anymore...) 2.Beign a shooter.... FPS,TPP games sell horribly in Japan(except MGS obv)

[ApolloCloud]

In terms of 'gameplay' it is very typical for the visual novel genre; and the genre itself is very stagnant. Character types are recognizeable as well. Not talking about the plot, though; it was unexpected at times. Though several plot elements (like deadly viruses, time travels, being locked somewhere waiting for help to come/trying to break free, etc.) are hardly new. (Actually, such a mishmash of ideas and concepts is pretty typical for japanese plots.)

I think it's a bit unfair to refer to the visual novel genre as stagnant. While true, it's all that can really be expected of it. The premise for the visual novel only really allows one specific, exact format that it can exist in and for them to be any different they'd no longer truly be visual novels.



Ever17 wasn't typical in the sense that it completely revolutionised choice based storytelling by implementing the Many Worlds Interpretation into its design, making each choice and variable scenario all fit into a greater space/time themed story. And aside from that the intruige and mystery of the setting and the likeability and depth of the characters were all of a far higher quality then you get in most visual novels. The only others that I think can really compare would be Phantom of Inferno and Kana: Little Sister.

[Weskerr]

Mass Effect is like Mozart. Mozart did not create or compose anything original or unique from his contemporaries. What sets him apart is just how great his musical composition is using the techniques and norms that composers at that time had at their disposal. He used what was already available and created wonderful, heavenly, perfect music. Haydn did something similar, but Mozart was even better than him.



Something similar can be said about Mass Effect.

[ApolloCloud]

SalsaDMA, what was original about Inception was the basic concept of entering an individual's dreams, not to steal an idea or obtain information, but to plant an idea into it. That basic concept, where the title derives its meaning, is fundamentally unique to Inception. The expansion of that concept and the intricities of its execution also added to its originality.

[ApolloCloud]

I would had said Shutter Island as well though the movie was an adaptaton of a book published in 2003. the 2010 film Alice In Wonderland also had an abundance of originality in its imagery (perhaps the finest film from a visual standpoint in a long time).

[Recho]

ApolloCloud wrote...
Ever17 wasn't typical in the sense that it completely revolutionised choice based storytelling by implementing the Many Worlds Interpretation into its design, making each choice and variable scenario all fit into a greater space/time themed story. And aside from that the intruige and mystery of the setting and the likeability and depth of the characters were all of a far higher quality then you get in most {similar games}.

And there you have it, why people like the Mass Effect series.

[ApolloCloud]

The characters in Mass Effect are nowhere near as deep as they are in Ever17. The characters in Ever17 speak to you on multiple psychological and philosophical levels. There wasn't really a sense of mystery of Mass Effect's setting in the first place. The setting of Ever17 is not only incredibly nuanced and intricate but an air of mystery is established within the story. Mass Effect doesn't really create a sense of mystery in its setting.

[Recho]

You've played through both Mass Effect games, had hours of conversation with the characters, separated and reunited with them over a span of two realtime years, tested their loyalty, watched them change, been their friend?

[ApolloCloud]

Depth isn't a matter of opinion. It's simply a measure of the extent to which something is explored. Friedrich Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra is factually deeper than, say, the Twilight books, as it delves into some truly profound ideas with incredible detail, whereas the Twilight books are incredibly shallow in their potrayal of emotions and character development etc.

[Sentox6]

Lol, 11 pages.

It seems to me that the OP's argument (at least as far as I got, before the incredibly excessive verbiage being used to praise FF7's plot became too much for me to swallow) basically centers on the idea that irrespective of the subjectivity of "good" and "bad", a piece of entertainment media can only be exceptional if it differentiates itself in some clear way from its peers.

Which, as far as I'm concerned, is out and out nonsense. In the case of a game, nothing needs to be remotely original for it to necessarily be exceptional; it is enough to execute all the requisite elements with superior quality.

You marry well written (not mutually inclusive of originality) characters, talented voice actors, satisfying gameplay mechanics, impressive graphics, etc, and you can certainly have an exceptional game. YMMV (in fact, YMWV) on all the elements, of course. But to suggest a game can only be exceptional by doing something dramatically different from the others in its genre is clearly disingenuous.

Modifié par Sentox6, 09 février 2011 - 09:54 .

[Recho]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Depth isn't a matter of opinion. It's simply a measure of the extent to which something is explored. Friedrich Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra is factually deeper than, say, the Twilight books, as it delves into some truly profound ideas with incredible detail, whereas the Twilight books are incredibly shallow in their potrayal of emotions and character development etc.

So judging from your avoidance of my question, the answer is obviously "No, I haven't."  You therefor can't comment on the depth of the series or its characters.  You've experienced one act of a three act story and declared to be inferior.  It's a Mass Effect thing.  You wouldn't understand.

[killerpie53]

I think that people loved Mass Effect because the Mass Effect world is unclear and mysterious and the game itself has a special charm (which I haven't seen anywhere else).



I agree with some of your claims in the first post but like I said, this game is just charming and playing it for the first time is a truly unique experience(as I see it).

[fromtheblackpast]

OP is everything wrong with the world, just my opinion. it makes me sick, probably the only reason why i have to post in this thread (:



just take any rock and roll band. the rolling stones, elvis presley. black music. they didnt invent it. so does it make it any worse?

or the white stripes for example. they play ****in blues. that genre has been around for like 1000 years.

its just so ridiculous i dont even know what to say. you sound like a dictator.

[ApolloCloud]

Mass Effect is the Avatar to Metal Gear Solid's Memento.

[ApolloCloud]

With regards to Mass Effect being well written funnily enough Drew Karpyshyn has also written a few Star Wars books and he's actually become a bit of a laughing stock in the Star Wars EU community for being a poor writer.

Modifié par ApolloCloud, 09 février 2011 - 10:36 .

[Sentox6]

ApolloCloud wrote...

With regards to Mass Effect being well written funnily enough Drew Karpyshyn has also written a few Star Wars books and he's actually become a bit of a laughing stock in the Star Wars EU community for being a poor writer.

At least half the material in the Star Wars EU is laughable. I fail to see the relevance to this topic, at any rate.

[ApolloCloud]

Erm.. what? Memento is not only one of the most original films of all time but one of the most original stories of all time period, film or otherwise.



I may have misunderstood what you were saying but are you honestly questioning Memento's originality?

[haberman13]

ME1 had a great story IMO, with great characters. ME2 not so much, more simplified and the characters were all cut from the same anti-hero mold (mostly).



That said I would agree that ME in general is "overhyped", as a console game its a masterpiece; as a PC game ---- not so much.

[ApolloCloud]

Well I wasn't trying to make a conclusive point but I just thought it'd be interesting to point out that Mass Effect's lead writer is recognised as being an incredibly inept writer in certain circles, and while the Darth Bane series is actually among my favorite EU installments I would wholeheartedly agree.