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Incredibly overrated?


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#301
Sentox6

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ApolloCloud wrote...

I myself have designed a Science Fiction story that I'd say is pretty original.

Well, if you've finished designing it, perhaps you should write it. And get it published or post it online.
Also, I'm quite aware of the implications of your thread, even though my IQ is not a double digit number :mellow: That's no excuse for not being clearer in your assertions, however. If you take umbrage with one aspect of the game being overrated, then say from from the outset.

KotOR 2 being unfinished is a critisicm of how it was next to how it
could have been and nothing more. Like Mass Effect and KotOR it was very
much a story driven game and in telling a vastly superior storyline
with no notable gameplay shortcomings, it was quite easily the superior
game.


Ok, forget it. Blatant trolling now.

Modifié par Sentox6, 10 février 2011 - 03:01 .


#302
ApolloCloud

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No I'm mainly talking about Mass Effect. I thought Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 were great, as I did Neverwinters Nights, and Knights of the Old Republic and Dragon Age were solid. Mass Effect on the other hand was utterly average, with the only main Bioware RPG even worse being Jade Empire.

#303
ApolloCloud

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I don't plan on getting it professionally published though I will probably post it online once it's complete...



In my experience being overly explicit can at times be a form of inefficiency. If an implication is strong enough that it will realistically be picked up on and it saves time than it is absolutely the most efficient form of expression.

#304
Sentox6

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ApolloCloud wrote...
In my experience being overly explicit can at times be a form of inefficiency. If an implication is strong enough that it will realistically be picked up on and it saves time than it is absolutely the most efficient form of expression.

It wouldn't fly in an academic, peer-review environment, that's for sure (then again, snide insinuations about people's intelligence wouldn't exactly impress, either). Still, given that this is the internet, I would almost be inclined to agree with you. Except we're talking about one sentence at most. Hell, as someone has already pointed out, one extra word in your thread title would have done the job.

Anyway, clearly your subjective opinion about one element of an interactive video game does not go very far towards establish Mass Effect as as 'overrated' (if such a thing is even possible) franchise.

#305
ApolloCloud

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It wouldn't fly in an academic, peer-review environment, that's for sure (then again, snide insinuations about people's intelligence wouldn't exactly impress, either).



That's your opinion on the matter, friend.

#306
Sentox6

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ApolloCloud wrote...
That's your opinion on the matter, friend.

No, you would actually lose marks in an academic assessment for relying upon implications rather than explicit assertions. Unless your degree is in Liberal Arts, but I never paid much attention to the McDonalds career path.

#307
Recho

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Oh my god this guy has dedicated himself to this discussion FOR DAYS. Even if he's trolling, that's remarkably sad. My condolences, OP. But just think, if this were a JRPG, you'd have almost leveled up by now. Keep on grindin!

#308
ApolloCloud

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Oh my god this guy has dedicated himself to this discussion FOR DAYS. Even if he's trolling, that's remarkably sad. My condolences, OP. But just think, if this were a JRPG, you'd have almost leveled up by now. Keep on grindin!




Upon looking though your profile I noticed you had zero friends and I can't say I'm surprised.

#309
AirborneMind

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Mass Effect is a great story, but not necessarily because of it's plot. Admittedly, the premise is very simple: you must save the universe from powerful, evil robots who want to destroy all life in the universe. When my friend first introduced Mass Effect to me, I thought *yawn* "I've played this kind of game before."  

But then I actually played it. Mass Effect succeeds from a storytelling perspective on several levels. The first of which is getting people to care about the characters that inhabit the ME universe, starting with Shepard and the dialogue wheel. I have never felt such a strong personal connection with character I'm playing than I do with my Shepards. Master Chief and Gordon Freemon certainly didn't provide that, and neither did any of my other voiceless RPG characters.  It's a mechanic that draws you in with the visual feedback and pacing of a scripted scene, but offers just enough freedom to call Shepard your own.  Also, Shepard's unique position as a celebrity-like representative for a human race that  is new to the galactic stage makes your behavior even more interesting.

And moving past Shepard, most players end up caring about their squadmates. I guarantee you a character doesn't have to be complex to be likable: look no further than Aeris from FFVII, a simple character who's death broke hearts. Storytelling wise, what Mass Effect does well is that it puts the lives of characters you (should) care about in your hands. It gives weight to decisions like who to save on Virmire. I'm not saying this device is unique, but it is effective. This device steps up front and center in Mass Effect 2. And it's brilliant. If you care about the characters, then you care about the ending. Getting your audience emotionally invested is great storytelling. Period.

The other thing Bioware does well is delivering a satisfying climax. Most of their games leave the player with a sense of gratification. Feedback is important in video games; players need to feel like they've accomplished something great in the end, even if that feeling is an illusion, because at the end of the day, that's all storytelling is: an illusion. I don't consider to the first Mass Effect to be a great game as a whole. It has a lot of average level design, graphics and combat, but by God, I still get shivers when I see the Normandy fly in and blow Sovereign to hell. A good resolution can make or break a story. Fortunately for Bioware, the conclusion does more to make it.

A complex plot doesn't guarantee a good story, nor does a simple one prevent it. I enjoy a good story as much as the next guy. But for every complex HBO show I watch like the "The Wire," I'll watch something much simpler and charming like BBC's "Merlin." I love things like George RR Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series and Momento, but that doesn't mean I can't--or don't--enjoy Harry Potter and Avatar. Sometimes simplicity can be effective too; it makes it easier to focus on the raw emotion of a moment.

I thought there was great storytelling in both Mass Effect games, but if you didn't think it was great, that's okay too. I can certainly see why. We're all draw different things from a story, which makes part of what makes art so fascinating.

Modifié par AirborneMind, 10 février 2011 - 05:57 .


#310
ArchDemonXIII

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ApolloCloud wrote...

Upon looking though your profile I noticed you had zero friends and I can't say I'm surprised.

Mee-OW. claws are out now.


Recho wrote...

 But just think, if this were a JRPG, you'd have almost leveled up by now. Keep on grindin!


This made me giggle way too much.

Modifié par ArchDemonXIII, 10 février 2011 - 05:16 .


#311
William Adama

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Mass effect was solid because you (the player) was an actor within the game. You chose the dialogue and the way the tale progressed. It was also to first game I believe to have spoken dialogue options.



I made my own sci fi adventure.



Was the story original? Sort of. Was the execution well done? Sort of. Was the art direction and atmosphere well done? Yup. Was the game immersive and expansive? Yes.



It was a creative, involving sci fi videogame. The only other sci fi game that captured me as well as ME1 was Advent Rising. Mass effect was obsessive about its lore and well thought out in its premise. I read the codex, I listened to the news dailies and I absorbed the universes culture.



It was a refreshing sci fi game.

#312
Recho

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ApolloCloud wrote...

Oh my god this guy has dedicated himself to this discussion FOR DAYS. Even if he's trolling, that's remarkably sad. My condolences, OP. But just think, if this were a JRPG, you'd have almost leveled up by now. Keep on grindin!


Upon looking though your profile I noticed you had zero friends and I can't say I'm surprised.


You are right.  In my dozen or so forum posts I have formed no lasting relationships through this niche discussion network, not a one.  I am going to virtually cut my avatar's wrists and stream My Chemical Romance as I virtually die, weeping.  Damn you, actual human interaction, for constantly distracting me from building up my collection of cyber buddies!  A bloo bloo bloo bloo...

Edit:  Check it out, see?  Look at my avatar being all sad and bloody.  I don't think he's gonna make it.
 

Modifié par Recho, 10 février 2011 - 05:55 .


#313
archurban

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I understand that some people don't like. they think that this game is overrated. but when you google for all about mass effect 2, you can't just ignore what this game has been so much greater. if this is too much overrated, how could it receive more than 100 awards last year? do you think it is overrated? NO. you misread it entirely wrong. it's not Halo, call of duty games which are truly overrated. when you take a look at little box (facebook right side on official mass effect 2 site), it continues update news. look at it right now. last 10 years, number one RPG is mass effect 2. plus, Bioware took 4 positions out of 10 games. so do you think that it is overrated? I think that it is only you. you don't like this game. I think so.

by the way, I think the reason why you posted it? because you want to argue with people, are bored, and just hate to see something that somebody or company has been successful to make such a great game. I think so. even you think it is overrated, it doesn't matter. the truth always tells us something. you are one of very few groups which hate this game. but I don't care. this is not my problem.   

Modifié par archurban, 10 février 2011 - 05:53 .


#314
ApolloCloud

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You are right. In my dozen or so forum posts I have formed no lasting relationships through this niche discussion network, not a one. I am going to virtually cut my avatar's wrists and stream My Chemical Romance as I virtually die, weeping. Damn you, actual human interaction, for constantly distracting me from building up my collection of cyber buddies! A bloo bloo bloo bloo...




Does it pain you to know that you could permanently leave this forum tomorrow and nobody would ever even notice your absence? Does it? DOES IT??!!

#315
bjdbwea

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Let's not exaggerate. To call ME 2 the best RPG in the last ten years is of course laughable. Whether you agree with the OP or not, the number of awards is not a very good indication for the actual quality. Because often, to make books, movies or games more popular, the creators have to make them more superficial and immediate. Stuff with more depth is simply not as palatable for many consumers. Therefore it sells less and receives less awards from those reviewers who review for the mainstream.

#316
Bogsnot1

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Bogsnot1 wrote...
Apollo, register your game if you want your opinion to have any weight. Until you do, you will be considered henceforth a pirating troll, whose opinion is worth less (and smells more) than what I excreted from my buttocks this morning.


It still stands, put your money where you mouth is.

#317
Pwener2313

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ME1 was the best RPG in the last 10 years [PERIOD]

#318
AlanC9

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ApolloCloud wrote...

Oh my god this guy has dedicated himself to this discussion FOR DAYS. Even if he's trolling, that's remarkably sad. My condolences, OP. But just think, if this were a JRPG, you'd have almost leveled up by now. Keep on grindin!


Upon looking though your profile I noticed you had zero friends and I can't say I'm surprised.


This is just sad. Come on, dude, you're not even trying tonight.

Edit: actually, the followup post was pretty good, though you seemed to be breaking character a little with the shouting and repetition.

Modifié par AlanC9, 10 février 2011 - 06:19 .


#319
Recho

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I lived my life like a candle in the wind.

#320
Pwener2313

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That *is* sad.



(He should get a life... oh wait, it's the internet. My bad).

#321
Phaelducan

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Recho wrote...

I lived my life like a candle in the wind.


Jesus... your last few posts made YOU level. Well played sir.

#322
SirBoomstick

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ApolloCloud wrote...

You are right. In my dozen or so forum posts I have formed no lasting relationships through this niche discussion network, not a one. I am going to virtually cut my avatar's wrists and stream My Chemical Romance as I virtually die, weeping. Damn you, actual human interaction, for constantly distracting me from building up my collection of cyber buddies! A bloo bloo bloo bloo...


Does it pain you to know that you could permanently leave this forum tomorrow and nobody would ever even notice your absence? Does it? DOES IT??!!


How many threads are you still holding on to?

#323
nipsen

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..so.. why do folks keep being just obstinately obtuse for... 13 pages..? If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.
..in any case.. I agree and disagree. Mass Effect 1&2 is /wrongly/ rated by the vast majority of people who talk about it, imo. It's just not possible to escape that many who like the game only like it because it gives you an illusion of control. So they really like the game just because it's a bastard simulator, basically..
But on the side, you always have this small stream of people who try to justify the entire game as extremely well written - it's not. Either as a "pure computer game", or as a literary work. It has some extremely well written parts that do exploit the medium in the best possible way. Other parts are terrible, terrible.. in a way that the original Battlestar Galactica could only hope to aspire to at the worst parts, for example..

Doesn't mean it's a bad game, or that being critical means you hate the game.. far from it. What it means is that:
1. some of us want to talk about games as if they were something more than game-mechanics with make-up. And Bioware, with Mass Effect, does something interesting here. ..of course, so did Obsidian with Kotor2 and Alpha Protocol, for example. Or Quantic Dream with Heavy Rain.. or Square with Xenogears, etc... - but they didn't have the backing of the "other" fans at the time, so...
and
2. That there's a bunch of fans of this series that have never read a book, don't ever want to read one, and that appreciate the game for something completely different.

The thing is.. I doubt that everyone who liked the game only for the shooter parts, or who thought the entire narrative was AERWWWEESOONNNE!! ..I doubt they make up a very large part of the audience that buy the games. So to somehow argue that "the game is already good enough", or "more complex writing doesn't appeal to anyone" and so on.. is just not a very good point.
In fact, it seems like a very ungrateful argument, and one that's explicitly unsupportive of the developer.. A strange way to insist that the game shouldn't be made more carefully anyway, because everyone is too stupid or uninterested to really care about narratives.
That's silly.. even if you don't enjoy discussing narrative devices for laughs, you still can respond in different ways to different methods of story-telling.. so why just insist that "it's not there, it's popcorn and silly, and that's what's great about it!".. you know... lots of fluffy series for TV made that have serious story-telling, even if it's not aimed at a target audience of zombies. And then we have, unsurprisingly, a quality script with very silly substance. Happens all the time..
What we have in Mass Effect, is very good substance wrapped in fluff. That's.. not as easy to pass by without comment, you see :D

..anyway.. ah.. feel free to read my review of ME1, by the way :P just for laughs, if nothing else. Linke

Modifié par nipsen, 10 février 2011 - 08:32 .


#324
AceTrilby101

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ApolloCloud wrote...

Does it pain you to know that you could permanently leave this forum tomorrow and nobody would ever even notice your absence? Does it? DOES IT??!!


Okay, now that the long words are over with, I'll follow suit. I find it very difficult to take you seriously now, if I ever did to begin with. This is getting childish and petty.
Also, I kinda think Memento was a little overrated too. Sure, it had a somewhat original story, with a definitely original way of telling it (something you seemed to not be able to separate in your reply), I just didn't think it was amazingly entertaining.
Also, before you check, I don't have any friends on the BWSN either. And yes, the fact I could leave tomorrow and yaddayadda makes me lose sleep at night, knowing that one day I could be utterly forgotten - doomed to drown in the folds of the internet, forever lost... I need a moment. :crying:

#325
fromtheblackpast

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ALSO i dont think that there is any other game series out there in which the things you did in the first part affected the things that happen in part 3.