392 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

ApolloCloud wrote...

As I was saying earlier jeweledleah the artistry behind a portrait, much like that behind photography, lies in its original capture of an element of the real world that is usually of intended note.

Its not about the brush strokes or angles as important as they are, it really isn't.  you don't need to reinvent the wheel, or create a new technique, you don't even need to pick an unusual subject matter.

its about capturing that moment, invoking emotions, making you sometimes wonder and sometimes just keep looking. 

and ME does that.  maybe it doesn't do it for you and that's fine. people have different tastes and preferences.  but what you're doing here is claiming thaty your personal opinion invalidates other people's opinion of ME being an exceptional game.  I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

maybe your expectations were set too high?  maybe you are dissapointed because Mass Effect was different from what your imagination have conjured up?  in that case the fault doesn't lie with the game, it lies with you.

my experience was different.  I've heard good reviews, but I tried not to make impressions untill playing first hand.  and I was completely floored.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 10 février 2011 - 06:16 .

[Durontan]

ApolloCloud wrote...

You mentioned some games and TV shows and movies... honestly The Prestige I considered complete and utter crap, both the story and the way it was coming towards the conclusion.

Take that back.

Why would I? It is my personal opinion. When they added Tesla into it all (and as a person who comes from his country of birth [so was forced to know as much about him as possible] and have finished college in HIS field of expertize) I found the entire "magnetic illusion" a big load of bull. Since the start I knew only way for the original illusion was a twin brother, predictable, so sorry if my opinion that the movie is crap differs from yours.

To me prestige was a movie for a single nights brain rest, without a real deep story in it, but like I said, it is difference of opinions. I have no problems with people who loved the movie, and I have no problem with people who do not love mass effect which I myself consider one of 3 best RPGs of all times.

[ApolloCloud]

Since the start I knew only way for the original illusion was a twin brother

I believe you. Really.

[OriginalTibs]

ApolloCloud wrote...

It bothers me when it comes highly recommended and my expectations become raised to far greater heights then they should be leading to nothing but dissapointment after playing through it myself...

Had you risen to great heights yourself in playing it you would have earned a better experience. These games are not movies for passive spectators: You will only get from them a similar measure as you invest yourself. 

[Ulzeraj]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
Apollo, register your game if you want your opinion to have any weight. Until you do, you will be considered henceforth a pirating troll, whose opinion is worth less (and smells more) than what I excreted from my buttocks this morning.

It still stands, put your money where you mouth is.

Wow! As you can see I'm pirating that quote.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 10 février 2011 - 06:27 .

[didiware]

I knew nothing of Mass Effect when it came out and barely glanced at the cover in shops. I wasn't interested in a mainstream marine-hero adventure, I bought it when the price was down in about 30 dollars (In 2008 or 09 I think) and as soon as I heard the meny-soundtrack I was sold. Why?

Why because it made me think of Bladerunner, Running Man, Alien, Star Wars... All the classics. And that's just it. Mass Effect isn't some super original sci-fi story, it's an amazing tribute to old sci-fi, which many people, including myself, love deeply. And following on that note, Mass Effect has a refreshing look on females which isn't too usual in videogames. Sure, it may lack the female counterpart of every non-human species, but hey, you can't get everything, right?

As for the hype, well, that's just the way it is, especially if it has a passionate fanbase such as Mass Effect, you're bound to encounter a bit of overhype.

[ApolloCloud]

I already made two posts on the topic Autolycus perhaps you could directly address those rather than repeating the same unsupported claim ad infinitum?

Well, for one, the premise is highly original (and a damn good one): A man that suffers from interograde amnesia who uses notes, photographs and body tattoos to find the man that raped and killed his wife.







The structure of the film is also highly original, showing the events of the film in reverse chronological order in order to place the audience into the shoes of the protagonist whereby we too are kept in a constant state of disorientation with regards to exactly how events progressed into their current state.







I also watched the film in chronological order on the DVD and as Christopher Nolan stated he also intended for the film to be viewed and for the audience to find it compelling in that very format (though ideally after first seeing it in reverse order), and that he structured the story so that it operated in both manners, which further adds to its unique and complex structure.







The background story of "Sammy Jankis" and the tragedy that befell his wife was also extremely original, as was how, upon uncovering the full truth of what happened, Leanord then went on to manipulate and trick himself into believeing that Teddy Gammell was the guy he was after by intentionally distorting his own notes.







Memento was thoroughly original, with or without its ingenious structure.

And aside from being highly original from a storytelling perspective it was also original from a technical perspective, using innovative cinematographic tricks such as seperating the small segment we see in chronological order and the main segment we see in reverse chronological order with black and white and full colour respectively and have them slowly merge together as the events catch up with one another, or how at the beginning of the film it shows the development of a photograph from a polaroid camera backwards with the picture fading instead of formign as a precursor to the film's structure.

Memento is the most original movie of all time and along with The Prestige and Mulholland Dr. one of the three very best.

[Phaelducan]

fromtheblackpast wrote...

ALSO i dont think that there is any other game series out there in which the things you did in the first part affected the things that happen in part 3.

My favorite RPG series to date, Genso Suikoden, had game imports. Nowhere near the level that Bioware does it... but it's been in some other series as well. Ques for Glory comes to mind.

[ApolloCloud]

Depends on how you look at it. I thought the fact that you could recruit the main character of the first game into your army in the second depending on choices you made in the first was a very nice touch.

[Mondo47]

It's all completely subjective when it comes to perceived "greatness" in anything, sure, but I've got to admit, I completely ignored the first Mass Effect when it came out - and it was largely because of the deafening grinding of the hype-monster in the background. I remember being told (read lied to) how Halo was going to change the FPS game forever, how I'd never care about another first-person-shooter again, and being confronted by just another shooting game with a palette taken from some kid's super-bright felt tip pen collection, a plot so lazy a chimpanzee could have written better, and a gamer (me) left thinking she had more fun all those years back playing Doom 2. So yeah, me and hype don't get on. So I didn't buy ME1 until it only cost ten notes and I felt I could gamble on it without wanting to go firebomb a software house.

I've played rpgs before (and since the original poster has mentioned them, I should add at this point that I played the Final Fantasy's 7-10 and Xenogears), and enjoyed them, though only really in the way I enjoy a session with a Rubix cube; I see it as a object to master - the plot is never all that deep or interesting, I really do not give a toss about the characters I'm on the adventure with, but it's a fun way to spend a few hours here and there. Not much more. Because the story is secondary to me in comparison to the characterisation. And nothing at the point were I started playing Mass Effect had taken me by the throat and made me give a toss about the colection of polygons I was "adventuring" with.

Ok, I gave a toss about the characters in Albion (one of the most underappreciated and interesting rpgs ever), because someone actually wrote them with a degree of personality and realism, but by and large the people in rpgs are just cogs in a machine and I don't really care if they live, die, get married and have children, go mad and start eating babies or whatever. One character is always an annoying twit, one is always broody, one is always cynical, one is the comic relief, one always betrays you, so on and so forth. The story could be as suburban as a kitchen sink drama, but if the characters are interesting I'll get more than the Rubix cube out of my gaming experience. So I didn't expect the world from Mass Effect. I didn't get it, either, but I got closer than I'd got before with a game.

The story was pretty standard old-school space opera, but the characters were standouts. You could actually see their perceptions change, their moods alter, and actually feel some attachment for them. I just fell in love with Wrex the second I saw his face. Hearing him grouse and evade questions made me interested in the format "grumpy warhorse" character - so much so that I became concerned for him at several points. Sure, the handling of romance in the game was clumsy and obvious (particularly the way the people interested in your Shepard just run at you with hearts, flowers and signals so flagrant they'd be cringed at in an episode of Saved By The Bell), but I actually felt that my team was my team, not just some mooks there to kill things for me. Because of the strength of response I had to the game, I bought Dragon Age, and was subsequently blown away. DA was the first game that made me hate characters with a passion (the kind of passion reserved for someone you'd hospitalise if you met them in the street), made me care about characters despite their failings, made me want to bother talking to members of the party at all, and in the end was the first game that made me cry over loss - and not my personal loss, but someone else's (yes, that collection of polygons as far as my feelings were concerned, was as valid of response as a character in a play, book, film, etc.). No game had done that before; sure, I cry reading books or watching movies, but a videogame generally does not emotionally involve you beyond keeping an eye on the ammo and looking forward to the last bossfight.

Because of that, I picked up Mass Effect 2. And got more of the same. Sure, not as full-on as Dragon Age was for me, but I cared about the characters again. I cared about them. They weren't just devices to make killing nasties easier - they were characters - in every sense of the word. Sure, maybe the story isn't going to change the world, but for me, the fact that I was interested in someone other than myself in the game has meant for me that it is in some respects worthy of the hype heaped upon it. Like I said at the beginning, it is all so very subjective, but my feelings were made to do their thing by this game, and because of that I consider it delivered way beyond any of the usual kinds of overblown claims of videogames in general.

But that's just me.

[Phaelducan]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Depends on how you look at it. I thought the fact that you could recruit the main character of the first game into your army in the second depending on choices you made in the first was a very nice touch.

Mass Effect has thousands of variations of quests and outcomes they have programmed for the third in the series. Suikoden had 1 relatively minor side quest (albeit cool), and that import was bugged (name was screwy if it didn't start with an "M").

Don't get me wrong, I like lots of JRPGs, but I have to say that Obsidian, Black Isle, Bioware, Bethesda... and many others based in North America really know how to bring it. Calling Mass Effect 2 overrated is like saying, "What's the big deal about Usain Bolt... all he does is run fast."

YOU are in the minority, and it isn't our expectations that have lowered. If you don't like it fine, but don't knock the 5 million or so who disagree with you. There is a reason it won a crapload of awards AND got great reviews AND sold millions of copies.

Are you ready for this? ARE.... YOU.... READY.... FOR.... THIS????


It was a good game.

Oh, and btw, not to kick you when your down... but The Prestige was completely ripped off from a Tales from the Crypt story. Nothing new under the sun, I'm telling you. It's all been said and done.

[Ahglock]

bjdbwea wrote...

Let's not exaggerate. To call ME 2 the best RPG in the last ten years is of course laughable. Whether you agree with the OP or not, the number of awards is not a very good indication for the actual quality. Because often, to make books, movies or games more popular, the creators have to make them more superficial and immediate. Stuff with more depth is simply not as palatable for many consumers. Therefore it sells less and receives less awards from those reviewers who review for the mainstream.

I guess I am many consumers.  I have seen many movies, read many books, see plays, operas etc that had "depth", were "thought provoking" etc.  They all had one thing in common, they sucked.  Depth and thought provoking are code words, for sucking ass while pretending your plot is amazingly deep when in reality it just moved to the 6 feet deep section of the pool. 
   The average copnsumer gets the depth, they get the thought provoking aspects, but it just isn't entertaining.  Don't get me wrong it is entertaining to some people mainly the people who don't like Jazz but say they do because they think it makes them sound deeper. 

[ApolloCloud]

Oh, and btw, not to kick you when your down... but The Prestige was completely ripped off from a Tales from the Crypt story. Nothing new under the sun, I'm telling you. It's all been said and done.

In what respect?

[ApolloCloud]

...



That has got to be one of the most bizarre counter arguments I have ever come across.

[naledgeborn]

Recho wrote...

ApolloCloud wrote...

Oh my god this guy has dedicated himself to this discussion FOR DAYS. Even if he's trolling, that's remarkably sad. My condolences, OP. But just think, if this were a JRPG, you'd have almost leveled up by now. Keep on grindin!

Upon looking though your profile I noticed you had zero friends and I can't say I'm surprised.

You are right.  In my dozen or so forum posts I have formed no lasting relationships through this niche discussion network, not a one.  I am going to virtually cut my avatar's wrists and stream My Chemical Romance as I virtually die, weeping.  Damn you, actual human interaction, for constantly distracting me from building up my collection of cyber buddies!  A bloo bloo bloo bloo...

Edit:  Check it out, see?  Look at my avatar being all sad and bloody.  I don't think he's gonna make it.
 

LOL Q4Hiliarity

[shatteredstar56]

ApolloCloud wrote...

...

That has got to be one of the most bizarre counter arguments I have ever come across.

Play Red Dead Redemption, then play Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare.

Mass Effect is original in the gaming genre because of the choices.  You can change and create your ending, and do it all with an original character that no one else could have.  I respect Bioware for doing that. The story isn't completely original,  but every story has to have a hero, and pretty much all endings for said hero have been exploited.

[AlanC9]

Spin****e wrote...

Why is this thread even alive? The OP is obviously a hipster JRPG fanboy.

Hey, you said "hipster" like it's a bad thing.....

[Phaelducan]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Oh, and btw, not to kick you when your down... but The Prestige was completely ripped off from a Tales from the Crypt story. Nothing new under the sun, I'm telling you. It's all been said and done.

In what respect?

As stated... the plot from The Prestige was by definition unoriginal. In that someone else wrote it for a show years earlier called Tales from the Crypt. Previously written = not original.

[SirBoomstick]

Are we really talking about why this guy thinks ME 2 is overrated anymore? Or can we credit him to starting an argument clinic?

[kalle90]

ApolloCloud wrote...

It bothers me when it comes highly recommended and my expectations become raised to far greater heights then they should be leading to nothing but dissapointment after playing through it myself...

Good luck with that. I have been dissapointed with every game I have had any real expectations over, ME2 being the latest name added to that list. On the other hand I'd say only 1% of games are completely unlikeable

But if you've already made your mind what are you still after? You expect opinions of other people can still change your mind?

I see people praising the gameplay of ME2 though I feel it sucks, even ME1 had better. People have given me different reasons why it's good but that hasn't changed my mind. I can only move on and hope that ME3 delivers