392 réponses à ce sujet

[ApolloCloud]

Few plots, perhaps (a recent one I can think of would be the movie Inception, or Black Swan). Storyline refers to the sum of setting, character, plot, theme, and style, and there are plenty out there that possess a good measure of originality.



i never denied that George Lucas was heavily inspired by other mytholigies in his creation of the Star wars setting but at the same time you cannot deny that as far as imagery, style, and general quirkiness are concerned, the Ot established a very imaginative setting in what it depicted. Mass Effect quite simply doesn't. Stop trying to draw parallels between the two.

[Mikey_205]

Stories don't have to be long-winded and overly convoluted like those of many of the jRPGs listed to have significance just look at Shakespeare. I like the stories from the jRPGs you've mentioned above but to claim they are masterpieces of fiction with profound insights into life is a bit much. Perhaps Square Enix are so busy rabbiting on about libertarianism or having internal philosphical debates they've forgotten how to write decent stories, characters and make good games.

[Cru Hunter]

The story itself isn't too original. But the script and character development are what makes this game great to me. Very few other games I've played have in-depth character and universe development than Mass Effect. If you don't like it, heck, that's perfectly fine. Every gamer has their faves and dislikes.

[billywaffles]

Apollo, we are in 2011 and originality is dead for storytelling. You can't expect stories like Xenogears or VII these days.

That being said, ME is a great game (or at least better than 99% games in the last few years).

[ApolloCloud]

I just gave you two original plots, let alone storylines, 4 posts above this one.

[Phategod1]

ApolloCloud wrote...

By the same token, you can dislike Metal Gear Solid or Xenogears, and you're entitled to your opinion of them being bad, but at the same time, unlike Mass Effect, you can at least objectively state that they have the capacity to be exceptionally good, notably good.

Actually you dont. some people actually hate both franchises and its there opinion to do so. the term overrated is completely in regards to ones own opinion. 

[Iconic_N7]

Apollo Cloud... totally respect your opinion, but to this day, no story in any video game has impressed me nor had me hooked like ME. Its honestly my favorite game series to date. But i really like your honesty.

[levannar]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Few plots, perhaps (a recent one I can think of would be the movie Inception, or Black Swan). Storyline refers to the sum of setting, character, plot, theme, and style, and there are plenty out there that possess a good measure of originality.

i never denied that George Lucas was heavily inspired by other mytholigies in his creation of the Star wars setting but at the same time you cannot deny that as far as imagery, style, and general quirkiness are concerned, the Ot established a very imaginative setting in what it depicted. Mass Effect quite simply doesn't. Stop trying to draw parallels between the two.

Sorry, I don't see your point. Until now, you've been arguing about how unoriginal Mass Effect's plot is. Now that someone said how unoriginal Star Wars's plot was, you suddenly say it was still exceptional because of its imagery, style and quirkyness? Those are subjective things. Guess what, I for one think Mass Effect had an exceptionally imaginative setting. Like someone said before me, if you take it apart and analyze it, it won't be terribly original, but if you put it back together, it's something fresh and new. At least it was to me--you're entitled to your own opinion but there's no reason to rant about it at the forums. Before you say you have the right to do so--you certainly do. But it's not terribly productive, unless you only do it to argue with people about your subjective views, in which case you're a troll.

Please take no offense, but I just don't see the point of this whole thread. What are you trying to accomplish? Because the argument is going nowhere.

[Phategod1]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Final Fantasy games and good storytelling? Yeah, I stopped reading there.

And as much as I love Metal Gear, the plot in all of the games is beyond ridiculous and heavily convoluted (maybe with the exception of MGS3).

Just what i was thinking. As a Fan of MGS I can honestly say its a over rated franchise. I dont know if the OP is Asian or a fan of all things Asian. But when It comes to JRPG's and J action adventure there stories are extremely convoluted, riddled with cliche, and overall predictable. I had Xenosaga I and II. and one was great II was a excessive bore which seemed like one big sidequest. 

[TRISTAN WERBE]

im great not overrated what do yall think

[fmsantos39]

too much to read :/

[ApolloCloud]

Sorry, I don't see your point. Until now, you've been arguing about how unoriginal Mass Effect's plot is.

Plot, entire storyline, and its entire value as a game.

Now that someone said how unoriginal Star Wars's plot was, you suddenly say it was still exceptional because of its imagery, style and quirkyness? Those are subjective things.

Saying that an image, style, or quirk is good is a subjective thing. Saying that an image, style, or quirk is different is not. I'm saying that the Star Wars setting was highly original at its time because those things were so different. Im not saying the setting was objectively good. Mass Effect's imagery is objectively not very differentiated. As far as where there are real elements, everything is modelled off of the real world, and as far as where there are preternatural elements, everything is modelled off of the kind of stuff you'll see in a vast number of Sci Fi movies. You're not entitled to an opinion of Mass Effect's setting being imaginative as it is not an opinion. It is a factually incorrect statement.

[TRISTAN WERBE]

hello me 5 stars

[ApolloCloud]

I dont know if the OP is Asian or a fan of all things Asian.

Please, I've already referenced numerous Western originated stories. The only people trying to turn this into a JRPG vs WRPG debate are you guys. Some of my favorite stories are the likes of The Prestige, Lost. Memento, Mulholland Drive, Lost highway, Inland Empire, The Space Odyssey series of books, Childhood's End. End of Eternity, The Dark Tower etc...



I happen to not be the biggest fan of some extremely popular and highly acclaimed JRPGs such as the Dragon Quest games or Chrono Trigger. I also happen to like games such as Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, and Baldur's Gate.



However as far as the best videogame storylines go, yes, they would happen to be Japanese, but that's simply because for the most part they're far deeper, more complex, more original, and simply more compelling.



Even the very finest of Western story driven games, such as The Longest Journey and Beyond Good and Evil aren't quite on the same level as things like Metal Gear Solid, Xenogears, Xenosaga, Silent Hill 2, Chrono Cross, Baten Kaitos, Killer7, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy VII, X and tactics etc...



But regardless I can think of many Western Videogame stories that I would rate far above that of the Mass Effect series. Would that still be a JRPG vs WRPG thing?

But when It comes to JRPG's and J action adventure there stories are extremely convoluted, riddled with cliche, and overall predictable.

To many people, myself included, being convoluted isn't really a bad thing. I like my stories to have a bit more to them than the formulai stuff you see in the likes of the Mass Effect games but that's just me.



Cliche and predictable? JRPGs only become those things when you simplify them. JRPGs are known for delving into very deep subject matter, from philosophy to psychology to spirituality to politics and as you yourself reference, complex storylines. You'll find those characteristics generally conflict with them being cliche and predictable, considering deep subject matter generally isn't the overwhelming norm and complex storytelling can be difficult to understand let alone predict.

[ApolloCloud]

Are we really talking about Cloud in this thread? What a joke.

Deep, complex characters with original design and a tonne of style clearly aren't for everyone.

[TRISTAN WERBE]

i like clouds u have a problem

[ApolloCloud]

[/quote]i like clouds u have a problem[/quote]



I'm going to try and express this in the nicest way I possibly can...



I no longer like you, I no longer admire you, I no longer respect you as a man and as a being of sexual prowess and I no longer consider us friends.



Good day.

[AdmiralCheez]

ApolloCloud wrote..

Deep, complex characters with original design and a tonne of style clearly aren't for everyone.

No offense, but Cloud kind of game across as a flat, whiny teenager to me. With a giant sword and stupid hair. Dime a dozen. It's his character design that's iconic, not his personality.

While ME's characters may have been a little dull (Kaidan) or cliche (Thane) in places, none of them were without multiple layers to their pasts and personalities. They feel more like real people and less like cardboard cutout anime characters (not that all anime's bad--I love FLCL and Fullmetal Alchemist, which are both really original and have very wild, unique characters).

I can describe Cloud in a paragraph or less. I need half a page for most of ME1's major characters.

But that may be my personal taste talking.

[RAF1940]

Cool story bro

[AdmiralCheez]

scyphozoa wrote...

Gasp. This whole thread is just an inflammatory and antagonistic presentation of one individual's opinions. IMO, Sakaguchi has since penned far more sophisticated and compelling characters and stories since FF7. Sakaguchi's best work has come since he left SE, imo.

WHOA NO WAY MAN.

NO WAY.

OPINIONS?!  ON THE INTERNET?!  STARTING FIGHTS?!

HELL NO.

[LOLZAO]

This looks very like a hentai original doesn´t even look like any other JRPG.  

[Glorious_Leader]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

ApolloCloud wrote..

Deep, complex characters with original design and a tonne of style clearly aren't for everyone.

No offense, but Cloud kind of game across as a flat, whiny teenager to me. With a giant sword and stupid hair. Dime a dozen. It's his character design that's iconic, not his personality.

While ME's characters may have been a little dull (Kaidan) or cliche (Thane) in places, none of them were without multiple layers to their pasts and personalities. They feel more like real people and less like cardboard cutout anime characters (not that all anime's bad--I love FLCL and Fullmetal Alchemist, which are both really original and have very wild, unique characters).

I can describe Cloud in a paragraph or less. I need half a page for most of ME1's major characters.

But that may be my personal taste talking.

When people say that Cloud is an example of an interesting, well developed character I have to laugh.  He's too busy being snide and nonchalant throughout his entire game to show any of the emotion necessary to be an interesting character.  Red was the only in that game I can recall finding slightly interesting.  The rest of the cast were generic archetypes.  But even Red pales in comparison to Wrex or Ashley of ME fame.

Mass Effect does have original ideas.  Namely because the eponymous scientific breakthrough that's unique to the Mass Effect universe is the foundation that shapes the whole setting.  However, even if some other form of fiction has utilized similar ideas, ME presented its ideas in an exceptionally polished and professional manner that allowed it to become a hit.  It wasn't some, "Bad guy with a god complex wants to ascend to demigod status" storyline like half of the Final Fantasy games have.  And if that is what a good storyline looks like, I'll just stick to my cliched, tacky sci-fi epics.

Oh, and on the topic of Metal Gear Solid: Kojima needs to get a ****ing editor, already.  That franchise has the most convoluted storyline I've ever seen.

Modifié par Glorious_Leader, 07 février 2011 - 01:57 .

[TRISTAN WERBE]

[quote]ApolloCloud wrote...

[/quote]i like clouds u have a problem[/quote]

I'm going to try and express this in the nicest way I possibly can...

I no longer like you, I no longer admire you, I no longer respect you as a man and as a being of sexual prowess and I no longer consider us friends.

Good day.[/quote]see was telling what u thought of me so hard