392 réponses à ce sujet

[Dexi]

ApolloCloud wrote...
blablabla......... originality.... blabla...

Wait, what? Stopped there.

Originality is relative. Since 5000 BC people have continually created. 

You think that anything that we do is original? No... somebody already done it, in a way or another. The ideas and the reality fluctuations people feel and want to express that have spawned art, they are all the same, recycled. The correct use of originality is when someone recycles an idea but leaves its distinct and improving mark on that recycle. 

That, Mass Effect does well on the sci-fi universe, hence, Mass Effec IS original. 

You can argue, of course... Reapers, just a motif Mass Effect imported from Lovecraft, and his Cthulhu. 
Biotics, the Force with a less "spacemagic" reason and a more "scientific" one.
Commander Shepard... Space Chuck Norris. etc. 


But all these things definetly feel genuine, enjoyable AND original once you let yourself emersed into the game. 

If you played the game because you saw the good reviews, doubted them, downloaded the game to check it out, see what's so great about it, having in mind to find what's not so great about it... Then yes, you will find Mass Effect overrated. 
If you adopt the pueril enthusiasm a normal gamer would install Mass Effect with, you will be amazed and fall in love with the game. 



It's not about forcing yourself to like it, or dumbing yourself. It's about not wanting to find bad things. 
Because, give me the greatest piece of art, the most acclaimed ANYTHING, and if I want to find reasons to hate and claim it's overrated, oh boy, I will. 

[LiquidGrape]

Anyone who describes Metal Gear Solid as a great story instantly loses any credibility. I'm sorry, but there it is.

That said, Mass Effect has a fundamentally pretty lousy plot. But thanks to the sublime characterisation, I can let that slide.
And I much prefer a flawed intrigue with an interesting cast over hyperbolic melodrama à la Square Enix.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 07 février 2011 - 07:57 .

[CaptainZaysh]

LiquidGrape wrote...

That said, Mass Effect has a fundamentally pretty lousy plot. 

What's lousy about the Monomyth?

[CaptainZaysh]

ApolloCloud wrote...

The Satan-was-a-spy thing is a spectacularly banal observation.

- and it is not nearly so clever as you think it is.

...because you say so? Witty wordplay of ironic and symbolic substance delivered in a poetic manner with style and elegance is the definition of good writing.

No, because it's not even accurate.  Think about it.  Satan didn't tempt Eve with the apple to get information - he wasn't spying.  The whole monologue is based upon a flawed observation.  It seems clever, but when you give it even a little bit of thought you realise it was just nonsense.

ApolloCloud wrote...
I'd wager that you don't truly disagree with what I'm saying but are too hung up on the moments of bad writing in the game (which I'll admit there are; not a demerit of the original writers but of the localisation team) and your subsequent view of the writing being of general low quality that you're now too stubborn to admit that you may have been wrong.

Nah, sorry, don't like any JRPG writing I've encountered - including Eva's speech.

[LiquidGrape]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

That said, Mass Effect has a fundamentally pretty lousy plot. 

What's lousy about the Monomyth?

Well, I was specifically referring to the Reaper-premise, which, unless ME3 elaborates in some interesting fashion, seems a rather tiresome and uninspired ticking clock scenario.
I enjoy Mass Effect the most when I forget about the framework of its story, and instead direct my attention to its embedded events, environments and inhabitants.

[CaptainZaysh]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Well, I was specifically referring to the Reaper-premise, which, unless ME3 elaborates in some interesting fashion, seems a rather tiresome and uninspired ticking clock scenario.

Really?  I thought they were an interesting (and terrifying) answer to the Fermi Paradox.

[FoxholeHunter]

The only thing over rated around here is this thread!!

Modifié par FoxholeHunter, 07 février 2011 - 11:55 .

[mark_luther]

Opinion indeed. I happen to find the storytelling and characters in FF games (and JRPGs in general) to be convoluted, predictable and condescending. JRPG storytelling seems to feel it necessary to pound on the same pseudo-philosophical tidbit with about 20 minuets worth of unnatural dialog before bothering to advance the plot one bit. Not to mention the predictable cadre of "coming of age" characters and absurd character designs. JRPGs take a simple story and fool people into thinking that forcing it full of convoluted dialog somehow makes it "deep".

[aeetos21]

I don't see ME2 as an RPG at all, an RPG can't bring the type of cinematic experience that was ME2. IMO, at the VGAs Fallout should've won RPG of the Year while ME2 should've gotten GoTY. I've seen the retcon videos and all the differences between ME1 and ME2 and in the end I enjoyed ME2 a lot better. RPGs like FF are a dime a dozen. I can't think of another game like ME2 that's currently out there.

[Aramintai]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

That said, Mass Effect has a fundamentally pretty lousy plot. 

What's lousy about the Monomyth?

Man, it fits Baldur's Gate series completely .
Anyways, nothing is wrong with it. It works well. Even being a template for most of the Bioware's games. Or maybe because of it.
Also there's a list of similarities in Bioware's games:
gza.gameriot.com/content/images/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

Back to the topic at hand, personally, I always view ME2 as a transitory story, a part of a whole, in Shepard's journey with lots of fun little sub-plots and it manages to entertain just fine. Also, the game has an addicitve gameplay and is quite enjoyable in general. So I don't feel that the game is overhyped.

P.S. And comparing JRPGs like Final Fantasy with western RPGs is not a good idea in general, as they are often on the opposite sides of many fundamentals like, for example, plot/character realism vs. overstylized fantasy.

Modifié par Aramintai, 07 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Sorry, but I cannot take your post seriously when you claim that FF had a great story. FF has a terrible story to say the least. It's full of plot holes, it makes 0 sense and is just as predictable as ME's storyline...just watch TSE's video on Final Fantasy and you'll know what I mean.



ME does have a predictable story, yes, we all know that in the end, Shepherd will save the galaxy. So what? In most books I read, I can already predict the ending before I finished reading about half of it and I still have fun reading it.



The characters are nicely written though (Samara might be my second most favorite character in any video game) and we have some really cool moral decisions like destroying the genophage or not...and that's all you can ask for.



In the end, if you state FF as a good example for a good story...keep trolling, we could care less.

[Shadow of Sparta]

i think mass effect has a story that suits its universe perfectly.i've read and watched tons of sci-fi stuff but i still think the story is great.the decisions you get to make and the way they affect the universe is awesome (hopefully in me3).the casting is great by the way.bioware went out to get some huge sci fi veterans for this and i think the characters are some of the best around.if you really want to read between the the lines there are plenty of plot elements that can get people discussing as evidenced by the forum posts.its not so much how many twists can they throw at you but more like how immersed you are to really care about the twist that they do give you.took me 10 mins to make every major decision thrown at me in mass effect 1.why?because i cared.besides,who wants to die at the end or middle of the game just to make the story more interesting.there is nothing like mass effect on the market.

[JHU_P4NDA]

The thing is....it's ALL been done before. The entertainment industry has been around long enough that it's all basically been done, and everything is ripping off of (inspired by) something else.



The thing is though, who cares? The story of the lone hero gathering allies to save his home is a story that has been told since humans huddled around a campfire in a cave at night (or were placed here by some deity, depending on what you believe). It's a good story that is riveting and leaves people feeling satisfied.



Considering how different the Mass Effect universe is from anything else we've seen, I'm actually very pleased with how original the series is. The asari, quarians, geth, salarians, krogan, even minor species like drell, hanar, elcor, and vorcha have rich histories and properties.



It's just a damn good story.

[JHU_P4NDA]

Also....I really don't mean to flame, but FINAL FANTASY?? Really?? They honestly have some of the worst stories in the world. Final Fantasy XIII made me want to bash my head into the wall 9 seconds out of every 10 I was playing it. The only character that didn't drive me crazy was sazh.

[Glorious_Leader]

ApolloCloud wrote...

Do people still think this is a matter of opinion or something? Cloud is factually a unique and original character. The story behind his and Zach's intertwoven memories made for some highly unique characterisation.

That is an opinion.  I could argue that he's a stoic archetype.  His behaviour in FFVII supports this.  You may have counter points, but my argument is valid.  Therefore neither of our beliefs are fact.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

ApolloCloud, the fact that you compare Mass Effect to Final Fantasy and MetalGearSolid just makes your arguments extremely subjective. I couldn't count how many critics have lambasted FF for its repetitive and cheesy storylines over the years.



I played FFVII, X and XIII on the recommendations of a friend, BTW, who told me the FF series had amazing stories, and you know what? The only one I even marginally liked was VII. I can enjoy animes like Cowboy Bebop, Howl's Moving Castle and Vampire Hunter, but the FF games are so full of plot holes, melodrama and predictable outcomes that I just don't see what the big fuss is about. So, yeah, it's a matter of opinion foo'!

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Edit to above: Sorry, I meant to say FFVI, not VII.

[Ryzaki]

OP you might've made a better point if you used Shin Megami games.

[Rune-Chan]

ApolloCloud wrote...

If you like Mass Effect, you like the group that it belongs to. Mass Effect, however, cannot be exceptionnaly great, as it doesn't really offer anything to seperate it from other members of that same group it resides.

Explain to me why I love Mass Effect but dislike both Star Wars and Star Trek then?

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 07 février 2011 - 06:22 .

[Dexi]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...
ME does have a predictable story, yes,

How so? 

Did you predict ME2's story will be like what it was? 

Can you predict what will happen in ME3, be at least 80% sure it will be like that, and later on, be like 80% correct? No, I'm telling you, we have no clue in which direction the story will  go...

You say Shepard will die... Anyone predicted Shepard can die in ME2? Don't think so... I bet that in one of the endings, Shepard will die, and for good. 
They might as well make Shepard die, and through his death save the galaxy. We really don't know...
We can't predict. Hence, ME-Shepard's story arc is NOT predictable. Nothing's been predictable so far until the actual content was released. 

This comment is not intended to be rude, and it is not necesarily directed towards you, but more like to everybody claiming ME's storyline was/is predictable. 

Of course, you could all agrue and say that well it's like... just  my opinion. 

[Saerwen]

I will just simplify why I think the series (Mass Effect 1 &2) were exceptional to me, as this seems to be an opinion war!



Replayability.



They both have thier faults, but I have played quite a few games that after completion had no desire to go back and replay.

[Undertone]

Wow, the forums have hit a new kind of level of trolling.

OP all I have to say to you is - it's all about personal opinion. Sometimes something is not unique for being unique on it's own or bringing a new unique option.

Things are sometimes unique for mixing different elements that might be ordinary on their own and putting them together in a unique way or that mix being unique itself.

Mass Effect excells at that - it's story is not that unique, it's shooting/fighting is not that unique, it's music isn't that exceptional, it's graphics aren't insanely good or real, it's atmopshere isn't greatly consuming (as in sucking you in). None of those elements on their own are exceptional. But all that put into a single mix presented in a particular way - instant presto. And Mass Effect is awesome for that.

Long story short - stop being a troll.

Modifié par Undertone, 07 février 2011 - 06:42 .

[Nizzemancer]

All you guys who answered the OP obviously just got trolled by a weeaboo

[JHU_P4NDA]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Explain to me why I love Mass Effect but dislike both Star Wars and Star Trek then?

Did you just ask people to explain your own opinions to you?

While you're at it, please tell me why I love lemons but hate limes.