172 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...

Its economics, its more expensive to produce. And my average play through of DAO without any DLC was around 80 hours.

What do you expect when the sequel comes out so soon though? They could have easily just have taken longer and made a far richer and longer game.

Hmmm... and then we don't get it until 2012 sometime? I'm not sure this is a good tradeoff for me.

Hell, I don't think I want an 80 hour game anyway. Unless I get fired or something, I can't average more than maybe 90 minutes or so of gaming time per day over a long period. I'm much happier with finishing a playthrough in one month rather than in about two.

[Jitter]

Birth of a Sequel 



2 men in a hallway. 

1 with a tie and a lunch date , the other no tie , but plans on joining a LAN party for lunch. 

Man one says to man two, hey we want to leverage the success of Dragon Age , and can get approval for a sequel.

Man Two , ok cool me and the guys have some great ideas on how we can expand the game , new textures  (insert nerd speak here)

Man One well that all sounds fine and dandy , but i was wondering if we could just re texture ME2 , i mean we have invested in that development already , so what we are looking to do is reuse as much of the UI and engine components as possible.
Perhaps change the colors a little. 

Man Two but several of the game play elements from Dragon Age are specific to that runtime environment..(More nerd speak here)

Man One , yes well some the the marketing team and i have been speaking , and that type of interface was well received in ME2 and is more compliant with console controls. And by cloning ME2 with different character models we get to reuse alot of things. And time equals money. 

Man Two , wont the fans fans be a little upset at the changes ?

Man One , the who ?, ohh the "Wallets" , (very fake but well practiced laugh here) thats what me and the boys call them . 
You know it's all about migrating "Wallets" into our horizontal sales vertical , to enhance our "Wallet" funnel . And we feel strongly; and i must say with a significant bleh bleh (insert fictitious statistic here) so let just make it happen shall we.
We hired Martha Sacksplitter to be the project manager, you and your team will be reporting to her. She will be responsible for (insert too short deadline here) .

Man Two , but i don't think we can make a game that size in that time. 

Man One , ok make it shorter. 

Man Two will the current fan.. er i mean "Wallets" like the changes you are proposing ?

Man one: Don't you go thinking too far above you'r pay grade (insert another fake laugh here , somehow less fake?) just kidding, but seriously we took care of that , we are going to market that as a feature,  it will be more slick , less cumbersome , steamlined if you will , to take away from all that annoying thinking and decision making , heck i proposed selling a new mouse with the game to enhance it, it would be a wireless button , to play you just keep pushing it , and the character does stuff. That way the whole "Every button push does something awsome" will really hold weight.

And it will be wireless that way you can put it under your pillow and play at night as you sleep.  With luck the BioWare logo on the button will leave an imprint on your face , thousands of kids going to school with our logo on their foreheads!!! . But the short sighted lawyers saw a problem with people sleeping on wireless devices , .... whatever , any how Man 3 ..

Man 2: My name is Man 2

Man One : Ohh yeah sorry anyhow i have a lunch appointment with some clients, lets get on this asap!



 

[hawat333]

Haha, that was a great post!



By the way, whenever a complaint appears, it also holds a compliment.

Because it shows how much we've loved Dragon Age: Origins. It shows it was a great game, unique in its epicness even with the little flaws.

I just hope it will be longer than we expect.

[Angel of Nessus]

Jitter wrote...

Birth of a Sequel 



2 men in a hallway. 

1 with a tie and a lunch date , the other no tie , but plans on joining a LAN party for lunch. 

Man one says to man two, hey we want to leverage the success of Dragon Age , and can get approval for a sequel.

Man Two , ok cool me and the guys have some great ideas on how we can expand the game , new textures  (insert nerd speak here)

Man One well that all sounds fine and dandy , but i was wondering if we could just re texture ME2 , i mean we have invested in that development already , so what we are looking to do is reuse as much of the UI and engine components as possible.
Perhaps change the colors a little. 

Man Two but several of the game play elements from Dragon Age are specific to that runtime environment..(More nerd speak here)

Man One , yes well some the the marketing team and i have been speaking , and that type of interface was well received in ME2 and is more compliant with console controls. And by cloning ME2 with different character models we get to reuse alot of things. And time equals money. 

Man Two , wont the fans fans be a little upset at the changes ?

Man One , the who ?, ohh the "Wallets" , (very fake but well practiced laugh here) thats what me and the boys call them . 
You know it's all about migrating "Wallets" into our horizontal sales vertical , to enhance our "Wallet" funnel . And we feel strongly; and i must say with a significant bleh bleh (insert fictitious statistic here) so let just make it happen shall we.
We hired Martha Sacksplitter to be the project manager, you and your team will be reporting to her. She will be responsible for (insert too short deadline here) .

Man Two , but i don't think we can make a game that size in that time. 

Man One , ok make it shorter. 

Man Two will the current fan.. er i mean "Wallets" like the changes you are proposing ?

Man one: Don't you go thinking too far above you'r pay grade (insert another fake laugh here , somehow less fake?) just kidding, but seriously we took care of that , we are going to market that as a feature,  it will be more slick , less cumbersome , steamlined if you will , to take away from all that annoying thinking and decision making , heck i proposed selling a new mouse with the game to enhance it, it would be a wireless button , to play you just keep pushing it , and the character does stuff. That way the whole "Every button push does something awsome" will really hold weight.

And it will be wireless that way you can put it under your pillow and play at night as you sleep.  With luck the BioWare logo on the button will leave an imprint on your face , thousands of kids going to school with our logo on their foreheads!!! . But the short sighted lawyers saw a problem with people sleeping on wireless devices , .... whatever , any how Man 3 ..

Man 2: My name is Man 2

Man One : Ohh yeah sorry anyhow i have a lunch appointment with some clients, lets get on this asap!



 

TL;DR.  Fanboy rant, I assume?

[JohnCena94]

I love the changes, I for one love VO for my PC, and I like the way attacks work now.

[Gunsmith Cat]

I would sign almost anything Terror_K said, but personally, when i heard that the game lenght of DA2 was compared to Awakening and ME2 by official people, i knew the **** has hit the fan. The feeling that game is a rush job to capitalize quickly on the original, started with the first bits of info (cutting and shorting nearly everything) and never went away. Any info so far sounds like they used an axe were a carving knife was needed.

@Jitter - great stuff.

Modifié par Gunsmith Cat, 08 février 2011 - 12:46 .

[MindFlayer360]

Gunsmith Cat wrote...

I would sign almost anything Terror_K said, but personally, when i heard that the game lenght of DA2 was compared to Awakening and ME2 by official people, i knew the **** has hit the fan. The feeling that game is a rush job to capitalize quickly on the original, started with the first bits of info (cutting and shorting nearly everything) and never went away. Any info so far sounds like they used an axe were a carving knife was needed.

@Jitter - great stuff.

Woaaahhhh, wait. Compared to Awakening's length? Link? I mean, I heard it was shorter, but this is the first I've heard of it being compared to Awakening (in terms of being the same length, last I heard they said it was longer than Awakening)...Unless I'm misunderstanding you, which is entirely possible 

Modifié par MindFlayer360, 08 février 2011 - 01:08 .

[Phoenixblight]

Its said to be between 25-40 hours thats definitely longer than Awakening which was 12-20 hours and thats if you were really pushing it.





People are just grabbing at straws now.

[thehistorysage]

Angel of Nessus wrote...

Jitter wrote...

Birth of a Sequel 



2 men in a hallway. 

1 with a tie and a lunch date , the other no tie , but plans on joining a LAN party for lunch. 

Man one says to man two, hey we want to leverage the success of Dragon Age , and can get approval for a sequel.

Man Two , ok cool me and the guys have some great ideas on how we can expand the game , new textures  (insert nerd speak here)

Man One well that all sounds fine and dandy , but i was wondering if we could just re texture ME2 , i mean we have invested in that development already , so what we are looking to do is reuse as much of the UI and engine components as possible.
Perhaps change the colors a little. 

Man Two but several of the game play elements from Dragon Age are specific to that runtime environment..(More nerd speak here)

Man One , yes well some the the marketing team and i have been speaking , and that type of interface was well received in ME2 and is more compliant with console controls. And by cloning ME2 with different character models we get to reuse alot of things. And time equals money. 

Man Two , wont the fans fans be a little upset at the changes ?

Man One , the who ?, ohh the "Wallets" , (very fake but well practiced laugh here) thats what me and the boys call them . 
You know it's all about migrating "Wallets" into our horizontal sales vertical , to enhance our "Wallet" funnel . And we feel strongly; and i must say with a significant bleh bleh (insert fictitious statistic here) so let just make it happen shall we.
We hired Martha Sacksplitter to be the project manager, you and your team will be reporting to her. She will be responsible for (insert too short deadline here) .

Man Two , but i don't think we can make a game that size in that time. 

Man One , ok make it shorter. 

Man Two will the current fan.. er i mean "Wallets" like the changes you are proposing ?

Man one: Don't you go thinking too far above you'r pay grade (insert another fake laugh here , somehow less fake?) just kidding, but seriously we took care of that , we are going to market that as a feature,  it will be more slick , less cumbersome , steamlined if you will , to take away from all that annoying thinking and decision making , heck i proposed selling a new mouse with the game to enhance it, it would be a wireless button , to play you just keep pushing it , and the character does stuff. That way the whole "Every button push does something awsome" will really hold weight.

And it will be wireless that way you can put it under your pillow and play at night as you sleep.  With luck the BioWare logo on the button will leave an imprint on your face , thousands of kids going to school with our logo on their foreheads!!! . But the short sighted lawyers saw a problem with people sleeping on wireless devices , .... whatever , any how Man 3 ..

Man 2: My name is Man 2

Man One : Ohh yeah sorry anyhow i have a lunch appointment with some clients, lets get on this asap!



 

TL;DR.  Fanboy rant, I assume?

It was the opposite of a fanboy rant. It's an angry one-act play, based firmly in the realm of fiction. For instance it implies DA2 was made on a retextured Unreal Engine 3 like ME2, and that the marketing team has has control over game design and software engineering.

[Jitter]

Jitter wrote...

There is no foundation in fact here... 
I have been writing software for a decade for large companies. 

Just a hypothetical on how good software and games go bad. 

[Morning808]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

I'm actually excited for it and am pretty sure that it will be RPG of the year.

ME3

There is a chance that ME3 can be pushed back to early 2012

[PurpleSasquatch]

Doesn't anyone want Bioware to make an original game that doesn't have it's soul ruined by EA? I guess it's just good business to alienate your fanbase and make a sequel that makes you as much money as possible, which is a shame, I already have mass effect for that, dragon age could've been something different. I wanted a sequel to Origins. DA2 is not it. BiowarEA, I am dissapoint. But what do I know, I liked your games before they became mainstream cash grabs :/

[Terror_K]

AlanC9 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

What do you expect when the sequel comes out so soon though? They could have easily just have taken longer and made a far richer and longer game.

Hmmm... and then we don't get it until 2012 sometime? I'm not sure this is a good tradeoff for me.

I'd much prefer to wait knowing I'd get a deep, rich and long game from it with loads of options and customisation. Y'know... like DAO. Well worth the wait. I personally think sequels come out too quickly as it is; it's as if developers know the current mainstream gaming audience of today has ADD and is making sure their games don't get forgotten too quickly, so we gets lots of rushed, buggy and half-assed sequels these days coming out far too soon.

I even think Mass Effect 3 is coming out a little soon, especially if it's really supposed to finish up the series well and give us some proper and truly varied consequences for our imports. It just gives me the impression that it'll be like ME2 largely: a whole bunch of emails, cheap cameos and lame substitutions combined with things that seemed to matter originally simply not mattering much at all any more and barely making a dent in anything.

It's only really been just over a year since the original game after all, which is even less time than between ME1 and ME2. What we should have been getting from the Dragon Age was a few more DLCs and another expansion around the time DA2 is due to come out, with the real DA2 not coming for another year again. Instead we're getting what seems like a rushed, half-assed sequel that's not even half of the original game and taylored less for RPG fans and more for the casual, mainstream gamer. Which from where I'm sitting seems to be BioWare's overall approach these days, with the exception of SW:TOR.

Hell, I don't think I want an 80 hour game anyway. Unless I get fired or something, I can't average more than maybe 90 minutes or so of gaming time per day over a long period. I'm much happier with finishing a playthrough in one month rather than in about two.

That's where we differ. I really like a game I can sink my teeth into. I've still got several origins to explore fully in DAO more than a year later. There are plenty enough games out there that are nice and short, so is it really too much to ask to actually get a truly epic game these days? Seems only Bethesda and Rockstar are making those any more now, and that's really only because of their sandbox nature. BioWare used to be able to make epic games without them being sandbox.

[Vena_86]

Some changes look good, others don't, nothing is perfect and everything is subjective. Unless the game looks a lot different than on recent screenshots and videos I would beg to differ about the "prettier skin" though. The game does not even remotely look better (PC version). The art design changed only slightly and the technology is still a generation behind. I really hope that the performance issues, specially the lagging response time in greater battles, have been fixed, that would be a huge plus for me.

[Terror_K]

Vena_86 wrote...

Some changes look good, others don't, nothing is perfect and everything is subjective. Unless the game looks a lot different than on recent screenshots and videos I would beg to differ about the "prettier skin" though. The game does not even remotely look better (PC version). The art design changed only slightly and the technology is still a generation behind. I really hope that the performance issues, specially the lagging response time in greater battles, have been fixed, that would be a huge plus for me.

Especially when the entire game's palette seems to consist of browns and reds and that's about it. It seems with every new batch of screenshots it's just generic looking characters fighting bland-looking brown enemies in a brown environment.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

And I watched DA2 trailers after walking on and around pearl-white sand, honey-smelling grass and Crysis-like trees in Two Worlds 2. Wish I could play bioware story in a world like that. Or maybe I am just tired of winter and that's all..

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 08 février 2011 - 10:18 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I remain hopeful, but weary. I already know it won't be the greatest RPG I ever played (it has some stuff in it that bug me big time), but as it is, I'll settle with above average.



Good RPG's are so rare, I can barely remember...

[Maelora]

Terror K speaks for me.



What really hurts is the way Bioware lost faith in the very things that made ME1 and DA:O great.

[Sylvius the Mad]

zombiseatppl wrote...

Its still the same fun dialouge, combat and exsploration we all love

This is by no means a given.

The dialogue is likely to be a vastly different experience with the options all hidden behind the wheel.

The combat is quite different, as our tactical options are limited by the weapon restrictions.

I have heard nothing to suggest that DA2's exploration will be any different from DAO's exploration, so I'll give you that one.

[Jitter]

I think it all comes down to either not understanding why the first was such a success.
Or a blatant cash grab by promoting a different game under a successful title.

If you are not willing to put the same effort into a sequel , then dont make it!
It will all lead to short term gain , and a long term distrust by former fans, who will i imagine pass on the next BioWare titles until the sour taste from what i believe will be a total let down fades.
Love to be wrong , but i seldom am , having seen too many times the cash grab title ruin the franchise.

Modifié par Jitter, 10 février 2011 - 12:37 .

[HALO_Project]

Soul Reaver wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

I'm actually excited for it and am pretty sure that it will be RPG of the year.

With giants like The Witcher 2, Mass Effect 3, Skyrim and Deus Ex: Human Revolution I'm pretty sure that NO critic will give DA2 even one award

Ouch Soul Reaver. They might, but with such stiff competition... I'd say it's a little early to speculate.

I'm psyched about the game, not omg I can't wait how many days til it is released omg omg omg!! But, you know, psyched. When I heard about the dialogue wheel I rolled my eyes. Mass Effect kicked butt, one of my favorite games, but played more like a movie to me in that it felt a touch less immersive. And it took me and my husband and sister a bit to get used what sorts of things were going to come out of Shepard's mouth. Sometimes renegade was synonymous with xenophobic, for instance, not how I wanted to play my Shepard. So alot of redone conversations in the beginning but over all enjoyable. The graphics are not bad, at all. We can't base all our judgements on someone else's screenies from heaven only knows what settings and capabilities the systems were on. And I'll miss being an elf but hey it's not called Dragon Age: Origins 2 as has been pointed out. It is a new game not an expansion. And the wheel is supposed to have been improved upon so that it is clearer what we are choosing to have Hawke say (at least that's what the devs told Game Informer). So here's hoping and it can't be as bad as Alpha Protocol right? (Somebody needs to look up 'suave' which is NOT sarcastic and smart mouthed at every turn **).


In a nutshell: Yay Dragon Age 2! I intend to play it with an open mind and as a new game of its own that just happens to care what I did in another game and share a setting. I refuse to base my opinions on someone else's opinions or speculation. That's like not seeing a movie because everyone else said it looked like it would suck from the trailer. Who knows. Maybe you just missed out on the best movie of your life, or maybe you saved yourself a few bucks. If you don't give it a chance you'll never know, right?


But to add I completely agree with Terror_K's point that we should have been getting another Expansion for Origins about now and Dragon Age 2 in 2012 or later. But here it is. It's really the players that make it so hard though in some aspects. Look around and see how many "When are they releasing...?" and "How much longer...?" posts you find. The big deals at the companies are afraid that we'll forget about the titles if they wait too long. But you'd think Diablo 3 would be proving that wrong. I just want a game that I can play straight through without stopping to wait for the patch to fix something that should have been finished out of the gate. It's like the bigwigs forget that we BOUGHT the game, they didn't PAY US to test it for them. *sigh*

Modifié par HALO_Project, 10 février 2011 - 01:19 .

[Dan_cw]

The exact quote regarding the game's length from the developers is as follows (maybe not exact because the Awakening thing could have been mentioned first ):

Shorter than Origins, longer than Awakening.

And no, I don't have a link. But I'm sure someone can dig it up or others will chime in and verify it. Also of interest is that a developer has said they think there might be more side-quest content than before. In fact, you look at my post history. As for verifying the side-quest comment: http://social.biowar...9905/4#5980486. A person responds to it and thinks it was in the Giant Bomb video where it was referenced.

Anyway, forums are always a mess as a game launch approaches and even after said launch for at least a while. *shrugs*

Modifié par Dan_cw, 10 février 2011 - 05:36 .

[Marionetten]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



I remain hopeful, but weary. I already know it won't be the greatest RPG I ever played (it has some stuff in it that bug me big time), but as it is, I'll settle with above average.



Good RPG's are so rare, I can barely remember...

My view exactly. I can't say I like the direction BioWare has taken this in but I can't say I like the direction the game industry is moving in either.