14 réponses à ce sujet

[mrofni]

Anyone else excited about this? It seems like the world has a lot of room to work with, and the designers, GreenRonin, have done several tabletop rpgs in the past, several of them popular.  Here is an interview on it.

http://www.escapistm...ge-Tabletop-RPG

It seems pretty cool, although they don't have an official release date for it yet. However, it is expected to come out next fall.

I do really like tthis world idea as a story base though. Any thoughts?

[Inarai]

*collects his jaw*



I am a happy, happy gamer.

[mrofni]

I wish I knew how it would play though. There isn't really any information about it yet. One thing I wish they keep from the computer game is how they did the secondary specialties. Its cool to be able to use any of them for any class. If they could find a way to do it so several classes may want it. I'd also like them to keep the double specialization, you know? Even though I don't think it has ever been well implemented yet in any pen and paper RPG, I kind of wish they found a good way to have threat. Its an element that I love that games have been adding, if only because it adds another way to play the game.

[Inarai]

mrofni wrote...

I wish I knew how it would play though. There isn't really any information about it yet. One thing I wish they keep from the computer game is how they did the secondary specialties. Its cool to be able to use any of them for any class. If they could find a way to do it so several classes may want it. I'd also like them to keep the double specialization, you know? Even though I don't think it has ever been well implemented yet in any pen and paper RPG, I kind of wish they found a good way to have threat. Its an element that I love that games have been adding, if only because it adds another way to play the game.

Eh.

Specializations are basically Prestge classes Lite...  Which are(PrC's, that is), frankly, the most effective implementation of the concept I've come across.  The sheer amount of variance in character construction they afford is incredible...

Other systems may be more flexible on the whole, but damn PrC's work well.

[mrofni]

The Prestige classes were hardly well implemented. They offered a lot in pure character construction variety, but they were attached to some large requirements that tended to make the scope of your character more narrow rather then broader. They did give exactly the kind of detailed specialization you would want in an area of your choice, but you had to take abilities/skills/feats that would give you more of the same. While it makes great sense in role-playing that you would have to build up your skills to be able to become specialized in an area, it creates an adverse effect on the game's experience itself. Instead of an individual character being able to take abilities to play with their party's strengths or reducing their weakness, it forces them to take abilities to obtain their prestige class they are heading for. If given the choice, they may still decide to take those abilities, but by not giving them the choice it may limit the player from customizing their character the way they want it. They also had the problem that each prestige class was only really good for certain classes. You can open that up to more classes by making the bonuses for taking the specialization applicable to all/most classes rather then just a few. You can do this by making the specialization more theme/style related rather then details that could be more accurately assigned to the original classes or abilities/skills/feats. Also by having specializations without major requirements, it creates options of what abilities/skills/feats could be created. Players can more reasonably choose abilities that increase their capabilities in role-playing or that help protect or buff party members. This would establish more opportunities to work together as a team and solo as well. Now, this comes the negative of all of what I have been saying, and that is the argument of balance. Balancing specializations to be equal across all/most of the classes and to apply a story that would fit the specializations without the written requirements would be difficult. It may also be difficult to create abilities that would be useful in respect to the team as well as the individual. However, balance is an issue that developers of a game can fix with more work invested. I think it is wrong to deprive customers of good features that could reasonably be applied just because they didn't want to invest the extra work.

Edit: Wow, I didn't realize how big of a rant this truly was. Hopefully it is informing. =)

Modifié par mrofni, 15 novembre 2009 - 09:28 .

[mrofni]

I guess no one wanted to talk about a Dragon Age PnP RPG.

[Inarai]

...



Wow, you and I must build characters for 3.5 very, very, very differently. I'll generally select an emphasis(RP unless needs of the campaign dictate otherwise), and my choices of feats and PrC's fall naturally from there.



As far as opening them up goes... That's not really standard for proper implementation. Sometimes closing things down is the right course of action. Having a difference, for example, between Arcane and Divine PrC's is (generally) quite good. Not so much for the Artificer, but you can house-rule however you want, really.

[SanitariumPr]

Might might be interested - though just playing it on Pc made me consider to plan out a full scale campain on different PnP setting.

[mrofni]

I was meaning from a design standpoint. Not everyone builds characters the same way, some people like having a lot of options, a lot of variety. Some people don't build characters thinking about the level 10-15 in mind. Others do. I think that you shouldn't screw somebody out of prestige classes simply because they changed their mind of how they want their character to end up half way through or just wasn't thinking about it.. GM's often just help them out and let them change what they want, but that isn't always appropriate either because of either party balances or even story reasons.



Sometimes closing things down is good, but that should be done in the style of the initial class, not the skills. Those skills/feats are extra, it should be people's choice to apply them to making their class better or to giving themselves more options, not force them to do so. The specialization should be able to allow them to choose a variety of awesome styles to go into. I'll use some of the current specializations in Dragon Age as example, with some slight edits to make them more appropriate for this idea I'm proposing, Dragon Age itself had some issues with making the specializations appropriate for everyone.



Templar as a fighter could allow it to be this melee fighter that has extra resistance to spells, allowing your magic classes to deal less to him with any AOE's destroying the enemies. It would also allow him to not care as much by enemy casters allowing him to do a better job holding down melee. Templar as a rogue could allow for them sneaking up to the magical enemies and destroy them. It would also allow a ranged class to just to gun those mages down with less worry of being targeted back. If they had 2 specializations, then you could use Templar and Arcane Warrior on a mage and could be casting AOE spells while in melee.



Arcane Warrior is a good example of the difficulties of balancing such a system though. It could only really be applied to Magic classes how it currently is, although I'm sure you could make it have some benefit for the other classes, it would still be difficult.



Shapeshifting would be cool as any class, so long as the forms would have beneficial effects. Like extra speed/damage as a cat, defense/damage as a bear, extra senses as well.



Anyway, it would take some balancing to make them applicable to multiple classes, but I think for a lot of them it would be really cool. I think some ideas should be more class based rather then specialization. Stealth is more of a rogue idea, although you could have some spells that would make things invisible. Heavy armor is more of a fighter idea, things like that.

[lv12medic]

I think a Dragon Age pen and paper game would be fun to play. I didn't really like the D&D 3/3.5 prestige class system because some prestige classes had very little requirements and could be attained at around level 6 while others could take forever to be able finally take levels in. Its fun to plan out a character in general but to have to plan every single level up from the instant you make a character isn't very fun (atleast to me). The 4E paragon paths were nice because they had very basic requirements but 4E plays rather differently than the 3/3.5 system.

[Inarai]

mrofni wrote...

I was meaning from a design standpoint. Not everyone builds characters the same way, some people like having a lot of options, a lot of variety. Some people don't build characters thinking about the level 10-15 in mind. Others do. I think that you shouldn't screw somebody out of prestige classes simply because they changed their mind of how they want their character to end up half way through or just wasn't thinking about it.. GM's often just help them out and let them change what they want, but that isn't always appropriate either because of either party balances or even story reasons.

Sometimes closing things down is good, but that should be done in the style of the initial class, not the skills. Those skills/feats are extra, it should be people's choice to apply them to making their class better or to giving themselves more options, not force them to do so. The specialization should be able to allow them to choose a variety of awesome styles to go into. I'll use some of the current specializations in Dragon Age as example, with some slight edits to make them more appropriate for this idea I'm proposing, Dragon Age itself had some issues with making the specializations appropriate for everyone.

Well, here's the thing as far as 3.5 goes:  It was open enough, and closed enough.

Most of the restrictions made SENSE.  You could look at it and say "Okay, yeah, he'd need that to become/function as an Eternal Blade/Renegade Mastermaker/Guild Mage, etc.  That's the cardinal rule, really - it must make sense(and be in the spirit of the game/rules, even if it's not to the letter of the rules).

[SanitariumPr]

I might try to get same kind of trail of game to another platform, would not see Ad&d as a problem at all, or maybe even Palladium. just have to come up some house rules, but of course might be interested to see how this one turns out to be.

[Tzarn]

Any Idea when PnP will be available?

[mrofni]

http://www.greenronin.com/dragon_age/



Official site from people making it. They released the designer diary 3 for it recently. Date not announced yet however. I think it looks pretty cool, but I like Dragon Age setting a lot.

[kraidy1117]

I can't wait! I will be getting this on release day for sure. I love pen and paper RPGs.