58 réponses à ce sujet

[Freestate2nd]

What returning chars do yo want in mass effect 3? I kill jacob and kaidan and back all the others including zaeed and kasumi.

[Revan312]

I'm gonna assume with the amount of options at present mixed with the fact that most of the crew in the first game were simply cameos that they'll once again have to do the same and we'll most likely get a few previous chars mixed with a slew of newbies...

[AdmiralCheez]

Bring as many back as possible without fudging up the narrative. Garrus must be one of them. I am by no means against new characters, as BW works wonders with the squaddies, but I will not stand for over a dozen unsatisfying emails/cameos.

[The guy thats in your picture frame]

Miranda

[MrDizazta]

Garrus and Wrex. That is all.

[Big I]

Anderson, Kirrahe and Hacket

[Joram Talid]

clint eastwood, i mean garrus.

[Terror_K]

This is supposed to be the third part of a TRILOGY coming up. I don't want to spend most of it getting to know a whole bunch of new characters in what is essentially the third act. A few here and there is okay and fine, but this is the point where everything should come together, not where too many new threads should begin.

[Ashlag]

I can see there being a minimum of new characters (maybe two or three) plus the VS and whoever stayed alive for you after the end of ME2. I think that could be an interesting way to reward (or just change the gameplay) for people who kill off all of their squadmates at the end of ME2. And for those who don't you get lots of crew members.

[Da_Lion_Man]

I don't really care... anyone is welcome.

[Revan312]

Terror_K wrote...

This is supposed to be the third part of a TRILOGY coming up. I don't want to spend most of it getting to know a whole bunch of new characters in what is essentially the third act. A few here and there is okay and fine, but this is the point where everything should come together, not where too many new threads should begin.

Terror, you and I both know that's most likely whats gonna happen.. sad but true.. I'm with ya on not wanting to be introduced to ANOTHER new set of people, but I'm gonna assume with the cluster **** that is any random ME2 end game save it will be just a bunch of cameos and new characters..

 Get ready for the emails..

[aeetos21]

I like this idea:

No matter how many survive you can only CHOOSE like five or six old squaddies to accompany you during the main quest. Everybody else is delegated to other tasks (Tali for example could go and help rally/coordinate with the quarians, Legion could do the same with the geth, etc...). The squadmates you bring with fill certain storyline roles but you'd also pick up new squadmates as well. This will add incredible replay value for the game and strike a happy medium for people who both managed to kill off all but two of their squadmates and those who get through without losing anybody.

It's a win win.

Unfortunately most forumites enjoy pessimism and misery so no matter how many times I bring this up people close their eyes, stick their hands in their ears, and go:

"I'm not listening! I'm not listening! Bioware is going to make me unhappy! I'm not listening! Bioware is trying to ruin its own game! I'm not listening!"

Edit:

I'd bring with:
Miranda (LI and the best leader)
Tali (Tech and she's my kid sister)
Garrus (Badass and best friend)
Mordin (Genius and funny as hell)
Samara (Biotic and dependable)

The others:
Grunt - return to Urdnot, help Wrex and the krogan prepare to save earth's ass
Legion - same thing as Grunt only he'd go to the geth
Jacob, Jack, Thane (Zaeed and Kasumi if available) - head to earth at the start and help resistance forces there.

There, all twelve ME2 teammates that can either be part of your main squad or have "cameos", your choice, and since we don't need to worry about a sequel to ME3 this is completely doable.

ME1 teammates I'd bring with:
VS and Liara (if available)

Everybody else:
New teammates.

Wow, look at that, a happy balance that satisfies everything.

Modifié par aeetos21, 07 février 2011 - 07:54 .

[Phaedon]

Revan312 wrote...

I'm gonna assume with the amount of options at present mixed with the fact that most of the crew in the first game were simply cameos that they'll once again have to do the same and we'll most likely get a few previous chars mixed with a slew of newbies...

Have to do? Not really.

[Revan312]

aeetos21 wrote...

I like this idea:

No matter how many survive you can only CHOOSE like five or six old squaddies to accompany you during the main quest. Everybody else is delegated to other tasks (Tali for example could go and help rally/coordinate with the quarians, Legion could do the same with the geth, etc...). The squadmates you bring with fill certain storyline roles but you'd also pick up new squadmates as well. This will add incredible replay value for the game and strike a happy medium for people who both managed to kill off all but two of their squadmates and those who get through without losing anybody.

It's a win win.

Unfortunately most forumites enjoy pessimism and misery so no matter how many times I bring this up people close their eyes, stick their hands in their ears, and go:

"I'm not listening! I'm not listening! Bioware is going to make me unhappy! I'm not listening! Bioware is trying to ruin its own game! I'm not listening!"

And a lot of the forumites your talking about know the logistics of the save games and decisions.. Unless you want absolutely NO squad interaction, conversations about anything related to other squad members or pretty much any relevence to your version of the game, then ya, what you say could totally work, each squad mate in a vaccum.  Otherwise, the logistics are so daunting it would be ridiculous to get your hopes up about having that kind of decision in ME3.. 

Take my random save, wrex is dead, ashley is alive, miranda garrus, samara, kasumi, jack and tali are alive, the rest are dead or I didn't recruit them.. Now for any of the squad members to have any meaningful relevence to my game, they would have to at least acknowledge the events that transpired, otherwise it will fall extremely flat, but for them to do that, the amount of dialogue that would need to be written, voiced, coded and triggered properly is gargantuan..

I'm a realist, so I assume what I beieve will be the most likely outcome, your an idealist, who thinks that miracles can happen..

[aeetos21]

Okay, I'M GOING TO SAY THIS ONCE



The reason ME2 wasn't as "original" as ME1 and why ME1 squadmates had cameos only for the most part is because there is going to be ME3.



ME1, as far as originality goes, was the start of the ME franchise so OF COURSE its going to be the most original. All trilogies work that way.



Two, ME2 was the bridge between ME1 and ME3. For a franchise that lets your decisions carry on into the next game this is very tricky in what BW can let the player get away with. You can't have Shepard, for example, choose to kill TIM or have the VS get killed or any other insane choices. If there are two many different endings for ME2 then there is NO WAY BW could do a ME3, it'd be impossible. So those who are hating ME2 because of its unoriginality or lack of ME1 squadmates are really saying: "I don't want a ME3, I wanted ME2 to be the last in Shepard's story."



ME3 though, that has no sequel. You can go as crazy as you want with it, Casey Hudson and other DEVs have confirmed this. Other than insane fan theories where have any of you seen an official BW DEV say: "Yeah none of your squadmates from ME1 or ME2 are going to be in ME3 other than brief cameos."



Short answer, you haven't.

[Revan312]

aeetos21 wrote...

Short answer, you haven't.

Short answer is there's only a two year dev cycle on ME3, the game won't be on 5 disks I can guarentee it and they only have a limited budget.  I'm basing my assumptions on the fact that ME2 could barely bridge the decisions from the first game and have it stay meaningful, let alone the decisions from both into ME3.  Unless they expanded the ME dev team by three, I just don't see this crazy amount of choice that you do happening..

[aeetos21]

Revan312 wrote...
And a lot of the forumites your talking about know the logistics of the save games and decisions.. Unless you want absolutely NO squad interaction, conversations about anything related to other squad members or pretty much any relevence to your version of the game, then ya, what you say could totally work, each squad mate in a vaccum.  Otherwise, the logistics are so daunting it would be ridiculous to get your hopes up about having that kind of decision in ME3.. 

Take my random save, wrex is dead, ashley is alive, miranda garrus, samara, kasumi, jack and tali are alive, the rest are dead or I didn't recruit them.. Now for any of the squad members to have any meaningful relevence to my game, they would have to at least acknowledge the events that transpired, otherwise it will fall extremely flat, but for them to do that, the amount of dialogue that would need to be written, voiced, coded and triggered properly is gargantuan..

I'm a realist, so I assume what I beieve will be the most likely outcome, your an idealist, who thinks that miracles can happen..

ME1 had Kaidan and Ashley with roughly the same exact storyline, though the two had very different dialogues. As far as logistics go that's not too hard a feat to accomplish.

Also, as far as logistics go, ME2 had nearly all of its gameplay redesigned. Given the positive response ME2 got I doubt BW would need to do that again allowing more budget for story content (which means: voiced, coded, and triggered properly).

You'll notice roughly half the teammates in my proposal are new and will definitely play a part in the main ME3 storyline, and yes they will likely have bigger parts than returning ME squadmates but that's the nature of the beast and is still better than cameos.

Logistically? It'd have about one and half times more story content than ME2, how is that gargantum I don't know given the likely difference in budget allocation.

I'm going to favorite this thread, I have a feeling by either Pax East in March or E3 we'll have some definite answers to this hot button issue. And when we do I'll be more than happy to bring up this thread and see where everything stands.

Edit: A brief interview with Casey Hudson that talks about the number choices made in ME2 and ME1 that will carry over into ME3.

Modifié par aeetos21, 07 février 2011 - 08:21 .

[Revan312]

aeetos21 wrote...
*snip*

That's fine.  I'm not saying it's literally impossible to pull it off, but highly unlickely with what happened in this last installments use of previous savegame choices.. I suppose we shall see though

[aeetos21]

Pax East or E3, that's when the next big reveal will be. Though I'm thinking Pax East will be more about TOR given its confirmed that they'll have live demos of that available.

[Phaedon]

Revan312 wrote...
And a lot of the forumites your talking about know the logistics of the save games and decisions.. Unless you want absolutely NO squad interaction, conversations about anything related to other squad members or pretty much any relevence to your version of the game, then ya, what you say could totally work, each squad mate in a vaccum.  Otherwise, the logistics are so daunting it would be ridiculous to get your hopes up about having that kind of decision in ME3..  

Take my random save, wrex is dead, ashley is alive, miranda garrus, samara, kasumi, jack and tali are alive, the rest are dead or I didn't recruit them.. Now for any of the squad members to have any meaningful relevence to my game, they would have to at least acknowledge the events that transpired, otherwise it will fall extremely flat, but for them to do that, the amount of dialogue that would need to be written, voiced, coded and triggered properly is gargantuan..

I'm a realist, so I assume what I beieve will be the most likely outcome, your an idealist, who thinks that miracles can happen..

That's a common misconception and not realism.

The import feature operates with true/false flags, so if Bioware wants it to be done that way, when you lose a squadmate, then you just lose any material associated with him or her right away, or the effects of 'turning the flag to false' are less interesting.

For example, if Garrus dies in ME2, then he just doesn't appear in ME3, and a random turian on Palaven will say about how bad he feels that Garrus died.

Modifié par Phaedon, 07 février 2011 - 08:27 .

[Terror_K]

Revan312 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

Short answer, you haven't.

Short answer is there's only a two year dev cycle on ME3, the game won't be on 5 disks I can guarentee it and they only have a limited budget.  I'm basing my assumptions on the fact that ME2 could barely bridge the decisions from the first game and have it stay meaningful, let alone the decisions from both into ME3.  Unless they expanded the ME dev team by three, I just don't see this crazy amount of choice that you do happening..

^ Pretty much this. Add to that the fact that anybody can die in ME2 that went with you and you don't exactly put things in a positive light as far as this goes.

True, ME3 can go nuts now, and that should be good reason for there to be a lot of variations and outcomes. But given the speed at which it is coming and that ME2 fell well short in this regard in a longer development cycle, I'm not really that confident. Especially if one also hopes that more RPG and stronger gameplay elements overall will be added too. The proof will be in the pudding I suppose.

Ideally I think the best thing to do is to actually not involve squaddies too much in the story directly. With ME2 the squaddies were the story, so you had to involve them. If ME3 mostly focusses on the Reapers and sticks to them as the focus, then we should just be able to have a buttload of variations and squaddie banter and dialogue where they react to what's going on around them and put in their two cents, but don't directly interfere too much. There should be a few exceptions here and there, and there should be squaddies relegated to secondary-yet-important roles too, but I think this would work better for the most part. Squaddies that are mostly there to simply be along for the ride may seem a little shallow from a certain perspective, but these should all be characters who have more than enough reason to be there with Shepard at this point, and their prior involvement should be story reason enough, IMO.

Beyond that, perhaps a whole lot of temporary companions would work well too for old faces. For example, perhaps Tali joins you for a particular mission related to the quarians if she survived, but beyond that helps out her own people for the most part. If she's not there due to dying in ME2 or you don't want her for her optional content, you simply take an existing, permantent squaddie along and experience it in a slightly different way, devoid of Tali banter and anything she would have brought to the mission (for example, if Tali were there perhaps some event would be an automatic success, while without her Shepard has to make a fairly tough persuade to succeed).

[galland]

Have I seen this all before????

[aeetos21]

More like two and half year dev cycle, I think. I remember the wait up until ME2 and towards the end BW DEVs had confirmed they were beginning work on ME3. All the ME2 work they were doing was "tweaking" and DLC.

Edit: Though honestly I was surprised of the quick turn around time for ME3. Either BW forsees the 360 lifespan ending sometime soon or they think the world will end in 2012.

Modifié par aeetos21, 07 février 2011 - 08:36 .

[Revan312]

Phaedon wrote...

For example, if Garrus dies in ME2, then he just doesn't appear in ME3, and a random turian on Palaven will say about how bad he feels that Garrus died.

Which is my point, an entire set of dialogue and plot flags have to now be created for each instance of that.. The combinations are pretty staggering unless, again, they simply take all past relevence out of the squad members, which would fall flat to me.. The crew all talked about Kaiden/Ashley dieing in the first game, it's lightly talked about in the second, now imagine the range of different character lineups and all the possible dialogue options that would need to be associated with the vast range of differing end saves and last game crew lineups.. Imagine Miranda not commenting on Jack dieing in the end, or vice versa, or Legion perishing and Tali not commenting or the same happening but being different based on what you decided in their quarrel, it would be weird.

It's crazy to think about, let alone piling on all the other decisions in ME1 & 2 and you have a recipe for either a 5 disk mega game, which I doubt, or a bunch of emails/cameos and new squad mates..

Again, I might be wrong, but it seems so ridiculously daunting to think about the possible story combinations and needed relevence it makes my head spin..

[Phaedon]

Revan312 wrote...
Which is my point, an entire set of dialogue and plot flags have to now be created for each instance of that.. The combinations are pretty staggering unless,

No, they are not. The only necessary flags for Garrus are:
a) LI yes/no (extra dialogue)
Loyalty Mission Done yes/no (Harkin could be a cameo, Sidonis would just disappear)
c) Sidonis Alive yes/no (Sidonis could appear as a cameo)

again, they simply take all past relevence out of the squad members, which would fall flat to me.. The crew all talked about Kaiden/Ashley dieing in the first game, it's lightly talked about in the second, now imagine the range of different character lineups and all the possible dialogue options that would need to be associated with the vast range of differing end saves and last game crew lineups.. Imagine Miranda not commenting on Jack dieing in the end, or vice versa, or Legion perishing and Tali not commenting or the same happening but being different based on what you decided in their quarrel, it would be weird.

Apart from squaddies commenting on the dead (which is unecessary and irrelevant to the plot), which exactly is this vast range of differing end saves? 

It's crazy to think about, let alone piling on all the other decisions in ME1 & 2 and you have a recipe for either a 5 disk mega game, which I doubt, or a bunch of emails/cameos and new squad mates..

Again, I might be wrong, but it seems so ridiculously daunting to think about the possible story combinations and needed relevence it makes my head spin..

I am sorry, but this is absolutely incorrect, and I don't know you came up with this. How does missing content suddenly add 3 new disks? 

In fact, why would Bioware, who has designed the outline of the series long before ME1 was released, start ME2 as a regular Act 2 (gather squadmates, resources etc.) and suddenly change all of that in ME3?