276 réponses à ce sujet

[deleted]

I thought the arbitrary cruelness shown by Shepard when choosing Morinth was surprising and added more depth to the character. It was one of the few moments in the game I absolutely never saw coming, so I just went with it.

[Kakistos_]

I do not see the benefits of choosing Morinth over Samara. Lore wise, Samara is more skilled and powerful. She does threaten to kill a renegade Shepard but only if they meet again after the mission is over and the same can be assumed for any other team mate she may have issues with. Who's to say that Morinth wouldn't continue to try or to force Shepard to 'embrace eternity'? Looking forward to ME3, what if someone finds out that Shepard helped Morinth kill Samara? Kasumi and presumably The Illusive Man already know but if that information got out, Shepard would be in deep poo, particularly with the Asari republic, Liara and other Justicars. After the events of ME3 Shepard would be a dead man/woman.

[kalle90]

Or perhaps you are a ultra paragon and think Samara with her justicar oaths and ways is just wrong. She'd kill her daughter because she's sick. And you think it can't be that serious or that there can be cure. It could be believable if you weren't constantly bombarded with renegade points



Originally I thought Samara is pretty much a renegade puppet too, but when I had to decide between the 2 I couldn't betray her.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Only if you're insane you can choose Mornith. Killing Samara off just darkens the world in my opinion at least she trying to do some good even if her methods are alittle out on a limb but Mornith could give two rocks about anything that isn't good for her.

[JHU_P4NDA]

I'd just like to say that the fact that a choice like this can spark so much thoughtful debate is why I love the Mass Effect series, indeed Bioware games in general

[Chewin]

The7Sins wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...


Even Kasumi warned not to accept Morinths offer...

Kasumi is the creepy staker that everyone just have to love.

Wrong. I gladly kill Kasumi with glee on everyone of my suicide missions.

You racist bastard!

[earthbornFemShep]

EDIT:  Whoops, didn't realize this was a no spoilers thread... I removed my comment

Modifié par earthbornFemShep, 08 février 2011 - 06:30 .

[The7Sins]

JHU_P4NDA wrote...

The7Sins wrote...


Wrong. I gladly kill Kasumi with glee on everyone of my suicide missions.

WHAT?!? Have you no soul?? She's one of the most charming and vivacious characters in the entire game...

She is a thief. I loath thieves and was quite pissed Buioware put one in ME2. So Every time on the Suicide Mission I have her go to the vents and put someone in charge of the distraction team in order to get her killed. To bad there wasn't an option to shoot her in the ****ing head the second you meet her or to kill her @ the end of her loyalty mission.

[JKoopman]

The7Sins wrote...

JHU_P4NDA wrote...

The7Sins wrote...


Wrong. I gladly kill Kasumi with glee on everyone of my suicide missions.

WHAT?!? Have you no soul?? She's one of the most charming and vivacious characters in the entire game...

She is a thief. I loath thieves and was quite pissed Buioware put one in ME2. So Every time on the Suicide Mission I have her go to the vents and put someone in charge of the distraction team in order to get her killed. To bad there wasn't an option to shoot her in the ****ing head the second you meet her or to kill her @ the end of her loyalty mission.

So hacker thief girl = shoot her in the head! But violent murderers, terrorists, zealots and freelance mercenaries  = A.O.K.?

Honestly, Kasumi is one of the nicest and most upbeat squad members aboard your ship compared to the likes of Jack, Miranda, Zaeed, Grunt and Samara.

Modifié par JKoopman, 08 février 2011 - 11:52 .

[Capeo]

Man, I did a Renegade run and Samara never told me that. Odd. Is there a particular level of Ren you have to hit for her to say that after the SM? I did every Renegade thing you could basically. Except with the decision on the fate of the Collector Base. My Ren meter was pretty full but I don't remember the exact level now.

[Bogsnot1]

The7Sins wrote...

JHU_P4NDA wrote...

The7Sins wrote...
Wrong. I gladly kill Kasumi with glee on everyone of my suicide missions.

WHAT?!? Have you no soul?? She's one of the most charming and vivacious characters in the entire game...

She is a thief. I loath thieves and was quite pissed Buioware put one in ME2. So Every time on the Suicide Mission I have her go to the vents and put someone in charge of the distraction team in order to get her killed. To bad there wasn't an option to shoot her in the ****ing head the second you meet her or to kill her @ the end of her loyalty mission.

If you hate her so much, why bother recruiting her? In fact, if you hate theives so much, why did you even bother purchasing and downloading the "Master Thief" DLC?
This makes you a hypocrite at best, a troll at worst.

[Dominus]

I did it because I'm oddly attracted to women with an insatiable hunger for domination and a burning desire to consume anything in her way.

[Capeo]

The7Sins wrote...

JHU_P4NDA wrote...

The7Sins wrote...


Wrong. I gladly kill Kasumi with glee on everyone of my suicide missions.

WHAT?!? Have you no soul?? She's one of the most charming and vivacious characters in the entire game...

She is a thief. I loath thieves and was quite pissed Buioware put one in ME2. So Every time on the Suicide Mission I have her go to the vents and put someone in charge of the distraction team in order to get her killed. To bad there wasn't an option to shoot her in the ****ing head the second you meet her or to kill her @ the end of her loyalty mission.

WHHAAAaaaat.  You crazy.  Kasumi is my favorite character.  Realistic motivations.  Great dialog.  Sweet.  Funny. 

If she can't be on my squad in ME3 I'll be sorely disappointed.  You have Kasumi who is kind hearted and wouldn't hurt a fly unless provoked as deserving death versus the likes of that scumbag gun for hire Zaeed or that psychotic wench Jack who admits she's killed for fun? 

[Goofy McCoy]

I think kasumi is a pretty cool guy, she likes ramen and doesn't afraid of stealing anything.



Morinth might have been interesting if she hadn't been buried under one of the more arbitrary renegade/paragon scenarios, one which easily could have been presented as a much more "grey" choice, with morality being determined afterwords, by your reaction to however events unfolded.

Remorse for lack of a better solution for paragon, conviction that killing whichever was the right choice for renegade.

[ilostmycookie]

Idk. The whole point of being dick in a game is because its fun when its making you out to be a good guy. So choosing her over Samara is just further being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Its all for teh lulz

[jbblue05]

I choose Morinth everytime just for the lulz



Succubus sexy vampire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Samara the cold fish

[Commander Waha]

I created an account just to talk about this.



When I play through, and I'm not just fooling around with different classes, I always pick Morinth over Samara. I find her to be a more interesting character.



Samara has her pros and cons, but in the end, she's as much of a cold blooded killer as Morinth. The Justicar Code is black and white in it's execution, and as evidenced by the whole "if you arrest me I'll kill dozens of law officers to escape" thing. And that is only one example out of a widely yet to be explained Justicar Code. Samara even explains that she has no moral problems following these rules. So acting like she has the high ground over someone with a sex addiction (that doesn't even seem that bad, but I'll get to that) is laughable. Now, having said all that, I still think Samara is a good character.



Morinth also has her pros and cons. She's obviously full of herself, claiming to be the genetic destiny of the asari when she's clearly sterile. However, this could be attributed to a rough childhood. Imagine finding out at age 40 that you'd have to spend the rest of your thousand year life in complete seclusion in some monastery. Would you not try to run?



And then there's the whole sex addiction thing. Morinth seems kind of....picky. It doesn't seem like a once a day, or week, or month kind of thing. She was on Illium, but there was no mention of people she'd killed there. Maybe a simple omission. She went to Omega, and was there for some time, presumably. It's unlikely she'd be on the run and then immediately mate with someone upon arrival. Too obvious. So the whole time she's on Omega (a few months at least) there's only record of her killing one person, and that was just before you arrive there to take care of Samara's loyalty mission.



Now, having said all that, Morinth has gone a wee bit crazy a few times. That time she brainwashed a whole village to sacrifice their kids to her, and then used the villagers to hold off Samara while she escaped. But on the whole, she's kept her activities on the down low.



tl;dr, over a period of time, Samara is as likely as Morinth to kill an innocent, and for even less of a reason. (Because I was told to, versus a biological imperative).

[Stupidus]

Ok, one thing that bothers me. There's no dialogue videos of Morinth on YouTube that I can find



Only scenes of her killing Shepard. Can someone lead me to a video of her dialogue tree?

[Shotokanguy]

This has been an issue for my Renegade for a while. I've pretty much decided I can't justify it, really, as there are no real good quotes from Samara before the loyalty mission that imply she is a danger to Renegade Shepards.



I AM going to let Morinth escape, however, so that Samara is easier to erm...remove...during the suicide mission.



Unless I find a good way to justify recruiting Morinth in this topic.

[Ashlag]

Stupidus wrote...

Ok, one thing that bothers me. There's no dialogue videos of Morinth on YouTube that I can find

Only scenes of her killing Shepard. Can someone lead me to a video of her dialogue tree?

I would like that too. I have never chosen her over Samara and I don't really want to replay ME2 again; but I would like to see what I missed out on.

[Shotokanguy]

JKoopman wrote...

Yeah, I don't really see "Samara might possibly come for Shepard at some point if he's a Renegade" as valid reasoning for siding with Morinth when it's basically a given that Morinth is going to be doing everything she can to dominate and kill you from the moment you bring her on board and may very well end up preying on other members of the crew as well.

But Shepard can easily protect himself from Morinth. Just a little self control.

[DarkSeraphym]

JKoopman wrote...

Yeah, I don't really see "Samara might possibly come for Shepard at some point if he's a Renegade" as valid reasoning for siding with Morinth when it's basically a given that Morinth is going to be doing everything she can to dominate and kill you from the moment you bring her on board and may very well end up preying on other members of the crew as well.

It's the exact same reasoning process that ReneShep puts into the idea of why it is a good idea to destroy the Rachni now, keep the Genophage on the Krogan, and terminate many Geth programs instead of reintergrating them simply because of a possibility that these issues could become problematic in the future. Only difference here is that in this case, choosing either Samara or Morinth could both be problematic.

Really, Samara is just as problematic as her daughter for ReneShep, possibly even any Shepard. The argument that Morinth may attack other members of the crew also holds true for Samara as well. Garrus is a vigilante. Thane is an assassin. Kasumi steals for a living. Mordin has put a species on the endangered species list. Miranda and Jacob have known ties to a terrorist organization. Jack has committed multiple crimes and busted out of prison. Zaeed is a ruthless mercenary. Every single one of these people probably violates one, if not many, of the thousands of codes of the Justicar Code. Samara is just as dangerous as her daughter to the rest of the crew once the mission is over.

By the way, thanks PrimalEden for referencing that argument.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 09 février 2011 - 06:20 .

[JKoopman]

Commander Waha wrote...

I created an account just to talk about this.

When I play through, and I'm not just fooling around with different classes, I always pick Morinth over Samara. I find her to be a more interesting character.

Samara has her pros and cons, but in the end, she's as much of a cold blooded killer as Morinth. The Justicar Code is black and white in it's execution, and as evidenced by the whole "if you arrest me I'll kill dozens of law officers to escape" thing. And that is only one example out of a widely yet to be explained Justicar Code. Samara even explains that she has no moral problems following these rules. So acting like she has the high ground over someone with a sex addiction (that doesn't even seem that bad, but I'll get to that) is laughable. Now, having said all that, I still think Samara is a good character.

Morinth also has her pros and cons. She's obviously full of herself, claiming to be the genetic destiny of the asari when she's clearly sterile. However, this could be attributed to a rough childhood. Imagine finding out at age 40 that you'd have to spend the rest of your thousand year life in complete seclusion in some monastery. Would you not try to run?

And then there's the whole sex addiction thing. Morinth seems kind of....picky. It doesn't seem like a once a day, or week, or month kind of thing. She was on Illium, but there was no mention of people she'd killed there. Maybe a simple omission. She went to Omega, and was there for some time, presumably. It's unlikely she'd be on the run and then immediately mate with someone upon arrival. Too obvious. So the whole time she's on Omega (a few months at least) there's only record of her killing one person, and that was just before you arrive there to take care of Samara's loyalty mission.

Now, having said all that, Morinth has gone a wee bit crazy a few times. That time she brainwashed a whole village to sacrifice their kids to her, and then used the villagers to hold off Samara while she escaped. But on the whole, she's kept her activities on the down low.

tl;dr, over a period of time, Samara is as likely as Morinth to kill an innocent, and for even less of a reason. (Because I was told to, versus a biological imperative).

You know, I would agree with you if that was something the game attempted to rationalize in the least, but it doesn't. As far as Shepard should be concerned, Morinth is a sociopathic mass-murderer with a god complex who kills because she enjoys the hunt and nothing more.

BioWare really missed a golden opportunity to build up Morinth's character and make her a sympathetic figure. The choice between Morinth and Samara could've been one of the biggest moral debates in the game, but instead it's just made to be a simple black and white decision via Morinth's prior actions and dialog with Shepard.

It would've been great if Morinth could've caught on that you were working with Samara earlier in your conversation and attempted to sway you over to her side; she could've argued that Samara was the evil opressor and she herself was simply a free-spirit living with a terrible curse, whereas Samara was an unfeeling zealot. It could've even been revealed that Morinth trully loved all the people she killed and hated herself for it, painting her as a tragic figure. Then it would be up to Shepard to decide whether Samara's merciless quest to kill her was justified or not.

Instead, it's hammered in your face that Morinth is a pitiless killer who gleefully murders her willfully-targeted victims, takes sadistic pleasure in preying on them and feels no regret whatsoever for any of her actions. There's no sympathy or pity there; she's just a cold-blooded murderer. Even for an extreme Renegade, it's hard to justify betraying Samara for any reason other than "for the lulz".

[Homey C-Dawg]

^ Actually in her dialog tree she does talk about a bit about that stuff. Of course it's easy to just say she's lying since she still wants to mind-rape you. Who knows though, maybe she really thought Shep could handle it.

Sympathetic or not, she's a cold blooded murderer either way. I just pick her in some playthroughs for random variety (ie. for the lulz).

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 09 février 2011 - 10:28 .