276 réponses à ce sujet

[Flamewielder]

I agree; Justicars are no more than government-sanctioned vigilantes from the perspective of our legal systems. While some like Terraneaux simply brush off Samara and Morinth as poorly written characters (and I'm not saying he's wrong), I cannot help but wonder if such controversy would have arisen if that was really the case... Clearly, the characters were intended to be controversial and I think they achieved that intent beyond the writer's expectations. It has certainly fueled discussions on threads dedicated to either.

[jbblue05]

Morinth and Samara both have awesome boobs.



Morinth will let you motor-boat and Samara won't



+1 Morinth

[Rafe34]

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth and Samara both have awesome boobs.

Morinth will let you motor-boat and Samara won't

+1 Morinth

Except for the small problem of you, ya know, dying when you do it.

[Rafe34]

gloops wrote...

I don't think this has been mentioned yet. Samara is a far greater threat to your crew than Morinth. Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Kasumi, Mordin, Thane, Zaeed and the Cerberus related crew are all potential victims of Samara's moral zealotry post-suicide mission. On the other hand, Morinth is only interested in Shepard. I pick Morinth over Samara because of my heavy Renegade leaning, but based on threat to the crew I think you should choose Morinth even if you're Paragon.

No.

Because as I mentioned before, Samara is loyal to you, and won't do anything to jeopardize your mission until after it is over.
So the logical option is to take Samara, and kill her on the final mission.

Samara is not a greater threat to your crew than a sociopathic killer, because Samara isn't going to kill anyone until her loyalty oath wears off, and you KNOW when that is going to happen. So just dispatch her right before it does, if you believe she's going to come after you or any of the crew after the mission is over.

Morinth is a huge threat to Tali'Zorah, in my mind. She definitely seems like one of those creative types that seems to get Morinth all riled up.

Modifié par Rafe34, 09 février 2011 - 11:35 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth and Samara both have awesome boobs.

Morinth will let you motor-boat and Samara won't

+1 Morinth

You can do that to Samara, too.... you'll just need to put on track shoes first.

[Rafe34]

Edit: Double post.

Modifié par Rafe34, 09 février 2011 - 11:33 .

[jbblue05]

Rafe34 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth and Samara both have awesome boobs.

Morinth will let you motor-boat and Samara won't

+1 Morinth

Except for the small problem of you, ya know, dying when you do it.

snu-snu doesn't equal mind-meld

@Ramirez 
Samara has biotics

Modifié par jbblue05, 09 février 2011 - 11:51 .

[Terraneaux]

jbblue05 wrote...

snu-snu doesn't equal mind-meld

@Ramirez 
Samara has biotics

Shepard has shields 

[Terraneaux]

Rafe34 wrote...
Morinth is a huge threat to Tali'Zorah, in my mind. She definitely seems like one of those creative types that seems to get Morinth all riled up.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tali, but 'creative' doesn't really enter into it.  'Adorable' might.  But Morinth doesn't just sex/kill people because they're adorable.  

[jbblue05]

Terraneaux wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

snu-snu doesn't equal mind-meld

@Ramirez 
Samara has biotics

Shepard has shields 

Samara has ME1 biotics

[DxWill10]

Harmless Crunch wrote...

Because she is a more interesting character ?

This is subjective.  however, most of my characters are full out paragon or renegade.  while i may be moderate personally, gameplay-wise, i can't stand not having all the dialouges unlocked xD

So all my renegade playthroughs have morinth.  I do like her as a character though.  Not necessarily more than Samara, but like i said, when I play renegade, I go all out.  Choosing Morinth is an effect of that

Modifié par DxWill10, 10 février 2011 - 02:26 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Rafe34 wrote...



No.

Because as I mentioned before, Samara is loyal to you, and won't do anything to jeopardize your mission until after it is over.

Since Shepard's mission is the Reapers, but Samara's mission is against the Collectors, that remains a rather significant turn around.

Samara is not a greater threat to your crew than a sociopathic killer, because Samara isn't going to kill anyone until her loyalty oath wears off, and you KNOW when that is going to happen.

When is the mission over? 

Is it when Shepard puts in the detonation sequence?

Is it when Shepard gets back on the Normandy?

Is it when the Normandy makes the relay jump?

Is it when the crew has a post-SM debrief?

Is it the first port of call?



Moreover, why should we place absolute trust unto her loyalty oath? Promises are as restrictive as the paper they're written on.

Morinth is a huge threat to Tali'Zorah, in my mind. She definitely seems like one of those creative types that seems to get Morinth all riled up.

You are aware that Morinth is quite capable of going for decades without any prey when taking such prey would be dangerous, yes?

She's not stupid, and not impulsive. She's ammoral and self-centered, but a consequence of that is that consequences actually matter far more to her than, say, Samara: if Morinth takes a member of Shepard's crew on the ship, Morinth is nearly certainly going to die. Since Morinth does not want to die, nor does she want her fun in hanging with Shepard to end, why would Morinth go after the crew?

Amorality means you aren't bound by morals, not that you aren't bound by consequences. Even ignoring Morinth's complete lack of suggested interest towards anyone but Shepard on the ship, don't confuse her with an impatient, short-sighted monster.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 10 février 2011 - 03:09 .

[gloops]

I mentioned it a couple of pages ago. Likewise, it's a topic I've mentioned on another forum that was referenced on the first page.

Evidently I was hasty when reading through the thread.

[Homey C-Dawg]

jbblue05 wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth and Samara both have awesome boobs.

Morinth will let you motor-boat and Samara won't

+1 Morinth

Except for the small problem of you, ya know, dying when you do it.

snu-snu doesn't equal mind-meld

Heh you know I've always wondered if shepard could just tie a cloth around Morinth's eyes or put a bag over her head and just have, you know, normal human sex.

[AkiKishi]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Heh you know I've always wondered if shepard could just tie a cloth around Morinth's eyes or put a bag over her head and just have, you know, normal human sex.

Note to self : Do not drink while reading message boards.

[Flamewielder]

*A damaged Normandy docks at Omega*

*Thane Krios exits the Normandy, cooly walks to the main concourse and grabs a female bystander, putting a gun to her head and dragging her back to the dock entrance*

Thane: "Shhhh... I'd stay calm if I were you..."

*Samara and Shepard exit the Normandy*

Shepard: "You said you wanted to return to Omega... said you could do good here."
Samara: "Then my Oath to you is concluded." *readies Reave"
Shepard: "Tut-tut!" *points out Krios and the hostage at the end of the hall* "We'll be leaving now. Please look after Nef's mother..."

*Airlock seals, docking clamps are released, the Normandy departs.*

*Samara turns towards the end of the hall. As she expected, the hostage is alone, cumpled in a trembling lump against the wall... shaken, but unarmed. The shadows have swallowed Krios... for the last time.*

*Turning her gaze to the fast fading star of the Normandy's drives, as it traces its course to the mass relay.*

Samara: "Well played Shepard... Goodbye. And good luck..."

Modifié par Flamewielder, 10 février 2011 - 01:34 .

[Dean_the_Young]

You know, I think 'not having to pre-plan a hostage taking to get rid of a team member, or instigating a gang war' should count as a good reason against Samara.

[Flamewielder]

Smart renegades always have a plan...

[Flamewielder]

...and I enjoy fireworks.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, my plan would be to not recruit her in the first place.



Seriously. Of all the dossiers you go out to recruit for your ship of terrorists, murderers, thieves, and war criminals, you want to go out and find the Punisher With Boobs?

[Flamewielder]

Given that Codex entries imply goverment sanction of Justicars (A-Y execution lists, Justicars being called in to deal with the most dangerous criminals,etc...) I think the comic book character you're looking for is Judge Dread...

And you're absolutely right, bringing Judge Dread onboard a ship of terrorists, murderers, thieves and war criminals is courting catastrophe... so... why is Samara still meditating in the Starboard Observation Deck after the Collector Base has been destroyed/handed over to TIM? I mean... I love fireworks but that might make Shepard's enjoyment of his drink difficult...

*insert raging firefight and massive shipboard damage here, knocking over Shepard's drink*

Or maybe our Judge Dread/Punisher analogy is off the mark, somehow?

Modifié par Flamewielder, 10 février 2011 - 03:15 .

[Confused_Shepard]

Flamewielder wrote...

Given that Codex entries imply goverment sanction of Justicars (A-Y execution lists, Justicars being called in to deal with the most dangerous criminals,etc...) I think the comic book character you're looking for is Judge Dread...

And you're absolutely right, bringing Judge Dread onboard a ship of terrorists, murderers, thieves and war criminals is courting catastrophe... so... why is Samara still meditating in the Starboard Observation Deck after the Collector Base has been destroyed/handed over to TIM? I mean... I love fireworks but that might make Shepard's enjoyment of his drink difficult...

*insert raging firefight and massive shipboard damage here, knocking over Shepard's drink*

Or maybe our Judge Dread/Punisher analogy is off the mark, somehow?

You are absolutely right with your assessment. Being a fan of the JUDGE myself I was hoping she would get an Alternate oufit in the Judge Dredd style. Garrus on the other hand is Frank Miller's Batman (He actually kills people) and Jack is Biotic Wolverine / X-23 (23 is female and the daughter of Wolvie).
So we have 2000 AD, DC and Marvel. Now we just need Dark Horse...

Back to Samara. I imagine my mostly Paragon Shep having a conversation with her about what she thinks of the crew/squad and even give reasons why she should not harm them despite the code. Even a Renegade Shep would tell her that the Galaxy needs his help to stop the Reapers and after that's done she can come find him if she dares.

Let's examine: 

Zaeed: In my case his burnt corpse was still on Zorya but he's just a bounty hunter. You could hire him to kill Osama or Obama. Dead. He deserves it though. 

Legion: HE'S A CUTE LITTLE ROBOT! THE LITTLE GETH THAT COULD! He's safe. 

Tali: Yes she has killed people but only in self defense. Frankly, she's innocent

Mordin: He's pretty much a Doctor with a gun. A gun that was used to protect people. And I doubt the code considers stuff like the Genphage. 

Garrus: A vigilante that hunted mercs and protected the innocent. Almost Turian Samara. Safe. 

Miranda: Samara actually praises her and is all "Oh she will go far in life but is too cold" 
Unless Miranda starts experimenting on babies she's safe. Just a scientist

Grunt: Innocent like a child which he is. Hell the events of the game is his childhood Safe.

Jacob:  Again. Praise. Oh he's a kind soul and a tough soldier.  Just a glorified security guard. Safe. 

Thane: Bit off a toss up but the assassination's were a part of his Hanar/Drell upbringing/culture and the targets must have been corporate heads or politicians. Samara would have to delve into Hanar politics. Nasaana was a white collar criminal. I don't think Samara does white collar crime. Nearly safe if Samara determines the targets to be a bunch of Lex Luthor's. Plus he's dying.

Jack: DON'T YOU TOUCH HER GRANDMA!! I personally think is that if you showed Samara Teltin she would be far more interested in hunting those responsible rather than a victim. Plus a Shep who Paragon romanced her could vouch for Jack and claim that everyone deserves a second change and he will "Rehabilitate" her. If she goes after Jack then she's just as evil as Morinth. Jack's paid a lot already for her crimes.  
 
Kasumi: Fusion of Robin Hood & Catwoman. Safe because Justicars don't kill people for petty thievery. And plus it's not like she steals for regular folk. Only from rich snobs who have too much money

Modifié par Confused_Shepard, 10 février 2011 - 06:30 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Flamewielder wrote...

Given that Codex entries imply goverment sanction of Justicars (A-Y execution lists, Justicars being called in to deal with the most dangerous criminals,etc...) I think the comic book character you're looking for is Judge Dread...

And you're absolutely right, bringing Judge Dread onboard a ship of terrorists, murderers, thieves and war criminals is courting catastrophe... so... why is Samara still meditating in the Starboard Observation Deck after the Collector Base has been destroyed/handed over to TIM? I mean... I love fireworks but that might make Shepard's enjoyment of his drink difficult...

*insert raging firefight and massive shipboard damage here, knocking over Shepard's drink*

Or maybe our Judge Dread/Punisher analogy is off the mark, somehow?

Punisher with boobs analogy.

The bra size makes all the difference.


Really, though, the paragon/implementation of Samara's approval rating makes no coherent sense. You can do any Renegade action (except choose Morinth) and, if you just did more Paragon actions, she'll never mind. And no Paragon action, however debatable, ever really triggers her displeasure.

[Schneidend]

I like how the "reaon" behind offing Samara is because she thinks you may do something that requires her to kill you. She doesn't even say that anything you have done requires her to kill you, she is being hypothetical.



Besides, Morinth is just as great a danger with her mind control powers. Sure, Shepard is able to resist her in the loyalty mission, because Shepard's in a focused, mission mindset. Morinth could try when Shep's more vulnerable and get different results.



I'd rather potentially, maybe have to fight Samara with guns and powers than most definitely fight a battle of wills with Morinth.