310 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Barquiel wrote...
They answer to their respective governments.

In principle, sure. But are they like ambassadors? They're apparently appointed (or at least so the fact that Shepard could recommend one and everyone treated it as a done deal suggests as much) but does that mean a particular government could impeach them?

Based on the reaction of the Turian ("You don't get to make demands of the Council!") and much of the ME-verse, the Council holds an incredible amount of power.

Wulfram wrote...

The council members seem to be chosen by
the council, rather than being appointed representatives of their
government - though they do seem to be chosen from a list nominated by
their government.

That's probably a reasonable assumption. What's more interesting is the removal process and their general accountability, given their power.

The council doesn't seem to have its own fleet, instead relying on the
militaries of the council races.

I don't think that's entirely true. The Citadel fleet is under the control of the Council, as is the Citadel itself. It seems to be neutral territory and not the sovereign territory of another ME 'state' so to speak, like the asari or salarians.

It does seem to have the power to over rule member species governments.
One example would be stopping the First Contact War, but also this
power is embodied in the Spectre's above the law status

There's also what Anderson tells you in ME if you say Council membership is useless after the first meeting with them.

His exact words are something like:

"If the Council has a ruling, we have to follow it. We don't have the military or politicial allies to stand up to them. If we had a seat on the Council, we could influence this decision. Take this mess with Saren - if we had a seat, we could just order the Citadel fleet to protect our colonies."

Whether Anderson overstates the power of a single Council seat, their decrees seem to be take as pretty absolute.

It's role is similar to that of the UN security council, but it is
definitely more powerful.

That's not a good analogy, because the UN Security Council is more of a mouthpiece for state interests that a government in itself. In ME, people speak of the Council as a form of government in itself, not as a diplomatic tool.

[In Exile]

Moiaussi wrote...

I really wish people would quit commenting on the Morning War as if all the facts are known. We don't know the status of the Quarians at the time the request was made, we don't know the Council's state of readiness or fleet strengths.

We know the terrible state of the quarian people, though, and the fact the Council told them to go **** themselves. Whether or not they provided military aid has no impact on their actions with the quarian refugees.

[Wulfram]

In Exile wrote...

The council doesn't seem to have its own fleet, instead relying on the
militaries of the council races.

I don't think that's entirely true. The Citadel fleet is under the control of the Council, as is the Citadel itself. It seems to be neutral territory and not the sovereign territory of another ME 'state' so to speak, like the asari or salarians.

(edit: fixed quoting)

I'd say rather that the council is shared territory, under the control of the council races in concert

There's a news report which gives some insight
"Two years since the destruction of the Destiny Ascension, planning for the fleet of the new Allied Citadel Defense Unit have reached another impasse
The Asari Republics has ceded its share of defense responsibility to the Turian Hierarchy.  The Human Alliance maintains a majority share of forces"

At least in this scenario, it's clear that the forces at the citadel are as much about securing the interests of their peoples as defending the citadel from any outside threat.  They'll presumably follow council orders - but only so long as their respective governments tell them too.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 février 2011 - 05:26 .

[Moiaussi]

In Exile wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

I really wish people would quit commenting on the Morning War as if all the facts are known. We don't know the status of the Quarians at the time the request was made, we don't know the Council's state of readiness or fleet strengths.

We know the terrible state of the quarian people, though, and the fact the Council told them to go **** themselves. Whether or not they provided military aid has no impact on their actions with the quarian refugees.

The council only reacted that way with respect to one world, within Council space, and it was heavy gravity and already promised to another race better suited to that world.

The Quarians themselves are divided over whether to settle or hold out for retaking their home systems, and it is possible the Quarian government chose that world precisely because they knew it would be denied (thus making it easier for them to maintain the status quo).

Furthermore, we know now that Rael has been continuing the research that got them kicked off the citadel in the first place.

The Council are not likely to consider them anything other than a risk when they keep talking about attacking back across the veil. They even talk about having the largest fleet, completely ignoring the Non-heretic's fleet, which took no losses at the Citadel war and is considered rather substantial.

The Migrant fleet is only the largest this side of the veil and only by default, by way of the other fleets having taking losses. It is like TIM saying similar things about the Alliance fleet (although that was before he learned about the Reapers).

[AkiKishi]

Heres a teaser.



Would the council sell out humanity if the Reapers offered a deal ?We take the humans then we leave sort of thing.



I think they would, feel free to disagree. But I see them as always taking the option that leads to the most stability.

[James2912]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Heres a teaser.

Would the council sell out humanity if the Reapers offered a deal ?We take the humans then we leave sort of thing.

I think they would, feel free to disagree. But I see them as always taking the option that leads to the most stability.

I most definitetly think so. I think it would be a lie on the Reapers behalf but they would fall for it. anything to prevent a war.

[Jagri]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Heres a teaser.

Would the council sell out humanity if the Reapers offered a deal ?We take the humans then we leave sort of thing.

I think they would, feel free to disagree. But I see them as always taking the option that leads to the most stability.

Would humanity sell out any other race if it ment avoiding extinction?

I think they would, however feel free to disagree.

[Moiaussi]

James2912 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Heres a teaser.

Would the council sell out humanity if the Reapers offered a deal ?We take the humans then we leave sort of thing.

I think they would, feel free to disagree. But I see them as always taking the option that leads to the most stability.

I most definitetly think so. I think it would be a lie on the Reapers behalf but they would fall for it. anything to prevent a war.

Then why didn't they agree with Saren, who was negotiating essentially that sort of deal?

[DarthSliver]

The Council is useless, Paragon Shepard regrets saving the Council in ME1/ Genesis Comic

[landis963]

Moiaussi wrote...

James2912 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Heres a teaser.

Would the council sell out humanity if the Reapers offered a deal ?We take the humans then we leave sort of thing.

I think they would, feel free to disagree. But I see them as always taking the option that leads to the most stability.

I most definitetly think so. I think it would be a lie on the Reapers behalf but they would fall for it. anything to prevent a war.

Then why didn't they agree with Saren, who was negotiating essentially that sort of deal?

Because they didn't know what exactly Saren was agreeing to.  

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

James2912 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Heres a teaser.

Would the council sell out humanity if the Reapers offered a deal ?We take the humans then we leave sort of thing.

I think they would, feel free to disagree. But I see them as always taking the option that leads to the most stability.

I most definitetly think so. I think it would be a lie on the Reapers behalf but they would fall for it. anything to prevent a war.

Then why didn't they agree with Saren, who was negotiating essentially that sort of deal?

Saren never told them. (Virmire confrontation.)

Moreover, they have still yet to accept the reality of the Reaper threat: their reaction to a clear and present  and immediate threat, as opposed to a distant and not-believed threat they don't even acknowledge...

[James2912]

The Council could side with the Reapers and some people would still be lapdogs of the council.

[Jagri]

James2912 wrote...

The Council could side with the Reapers and some people would still be lapdogs of the council.

TIM could be fully indoctrinated having been implanted with reaper technology but some people would still be his lapdog. Oh and be it a spoiler for those interested in comic books...

What is highlighted in bold is true.

Modifié par Jagri, 09 février 2011 - 06:32 .

[James2912]

Jagri wrote...

James2912 wrote...

The Council could side with the Reapers and some people would still be lapdogs of the council.

TIM could be fully indoctrinated having been implanted with reaper technology but some people would still be his lapdog. Oh and be it a spoiler for those interested in comic books...

What is highlighted in bold is true.

I have not read the comics is he really indoctrinated? Then I will kill that mofo!

[DarthSliver]

James2912 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

James2912 wrote...

The Council could side with the Reapers and some people would still be lapdogs of the council.

TIM could be fully indoctrinated having been implanted with reaper technology but some people would still be his lapdog. Oh and be it a spoiler for those interested in comic books...

What is highlighted in bold is true.

I have not read the comics is he really indoctrinated? Then I will kill that mofo!

I got evolution on the way lol. I will have to read it ASAP or is it in the one with Liara on the cover?

[Jagri]

Whoops sorry... Didn't mean to spoil anything just don't look at Mass Effect Wiki or the Preview to the 2nd volume of Evolution.

Modifié par Jagri, 09 février 2011 - 07:01 .

[DarthSliver]

Jagri wrote...

Whoops sorry... Didn't mean to spoil anything just don't look out Mass Effect Wiki or the Preview to the 2nd volume of Evolution.

Well I am getting into the extended Universe for ME. The author of the books is the same guy who wrote the Darth Bane books and those books were awesome. So I felt even more inclined to get into the ME extended Universe.

And to get on topic again i suppose. There isnt anything good about the Council, it seems all it takes is Humanity to ruin their corrupted politic playground.

[The Unfallen]

Um, the Council bent over backwards to allow my Shepard to stay in the Spectres. They actively supported him by doing so. As far as I am concerned they are indeed, allies. Then we have Illusive Man who I wouldn't trust with a sick dog, much less my own life. If I had to choose between siding with Illusive Man and the Council, I would easily choose the Council, they seem to be ready to support my Shepard even if they disagree with his actions and motives, which is "good" enough for me.

[Arijharn]

Moiaussi wrote...
The council only reacted that way with respect to one world, within Council space, and it was heavy gravity and already promised to another race better suited to that world.

How on Earth did you draw this conclusion? There is nothing at all in the planet's bio to come to this conclusion, although it does imply that the Quarian's have a history of just taking planets themselves without notifying the Council at some point in their history.

Moiaussi wrote...
The Quarians themselves are divided over whether to settle or hold out for retaking their home systems, and it is possible the Quarian government chose that world precisely because they knew it would be denied (thus making it easier for them to maintain the status quo).

Depends really on how long the debate has been going on within the Quarian's Admiralty Board imo. The planet was discovered (by the Quarian's) at the turn of the century, so that means the Quarians had found it well after the dust cleared on the Morning War.

I disagree with your assumption about it purposely to extend the status quo, namely because the Quarian's don't like the status quo, and want to find a solution one way or another.

I haven't responded to the rest of your message though because it seems to be sorta private rebuttal's to someone else, although I did interject with stuff I felt strongly about.

[Arijharn]

Jagri wrote...
TIM could be fully indoctrinated having been implanted with reaper technology but some people would still be his lapdog. Oh and be it a spoiler for those interested in comic books...

What is highlighted in bold is true.

It's pretty unlikely imo. It doesn't make much sense to do the things TIM did if he was actually working with the Reapers the entire time, unless there could be some sort of difference of opinion within the Reapers themselves (as in; side A: "RWOAR, GALACTIC CIVILISATION IS OUR FOOD!" and side B: "NO, IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK OVER THEM WHILE MAKING SURE THEY GAIN THE POTENTIAL TO JOIN US")

[aeetos21]

^^ Yeah, although it'd be an interesting twist at this point it just wouldn't make sense given the events that occurred in ME2.

[Moiaussi]

Arijharn wrote...

How on Earth did you draw this conclusion? There is nothing at all in the planet's bio to come to this conclusion, although it does imply that the Quarian's have a history of just taking planets themselves without notifying the Council at some point in their history.

It is possible the system was awarded to the Elcor on a whim, but normally assigning worlds to non-member races is something that would be expected to have some discussion and planning involved. I mean, it would have been really awkward politically if the world was given to the Elcor and they weren't in a position to do anything with it for a few decades, or worse, didn't want it for some reason.

Depends really on how long the debate has been going on within the Quarian's Admiralty Board imo. The planet was discovered (by the Quarian's) at the turn of the century, so that means the Quarians had found it well after the dust cleared on the Morning War.

I disagree with your assumption about it purposely to extend the status quo, namely because the Quarian's don't like the status quo, and want to find a solution one way or another.

I haven't responded to the rest of your message though because it seems to be sorta private rebuttal's to someone else, although I did interject with stuff I felt strongly about.

Of the current Admirals (including the late Rael), only one advocated settling down and that was the one advocating peace with the Geth. The others were advocating either continuing as a migrant fleet or war.

Consider that they are Admirals. If the Geth settle down on worlds again, that would be a massive political change. Civilian authority would suddenly have a much stronger place in their society.

The Quarian people might be demanding change, but the Admirals might be reluctant to give up power so quickly. If they deliberately chose a provocative world, then they have the Council as a scapegoat while maintaining their power.

[Moiaussi]

Arijharn wrote...

Jagri wrote...
TIM could be fully indoctrinated having been implanted with reaper technology but some people would still be his lapdog. Oh and be it a spoiler for those interested in comic books...

What is highlighted in bold is true.

It's pretty unlikely imo. It doesn't make much sense to do the things TIM did if he was actually working with the Reapers the entire time, unless there could be some sort of difference of opinion within the Reapers themselves (as in; side A: "RWOAR, GALACTIC CIVILISATION IS OUR FOOD!" and side B: "NO, IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK OVER THEM WHILE MAKING SURE THEY GAIN THE POTENTIAL TO JOIN US")

Note, he doesn't have to have been working for the reapers consciously either. Consider Saruman in LoTR.... falling into a dark path due to misinformation fed to him via the palantir he uses to 'spy' on Sauron's forces.

The whole 'we can't trust them. I can't even trust you with this information' mindset just keeps me thinking about the divide and conquer tactics we know the Reapers generally try to employ.

[Arijharn]

Even if he wasn't 'consciously' following orders, he'd still have to follow something that made sense.



Reapers (Harbinger) want to capture Shephard and task the Shadow Broker to do so.

Cerberus see's the political and morale power of Shephard and wants to keep him.

Reapers want Shephard dead or alive.

Cerberus wants Shephard alive

Reapers send the Collector's to attack the Normandy (they have to assume that he has a high chance of dying in the attack, along with everyone else). They successfully kill Shephard.

Reapers send SB to obtain his corpse.

Cerberus steals it from the SB

Cerberus resurrects our favourite Avatar of Death.

Cerberus sends Shephard to directly interfere with the Reapers agents, the Collector's.



I don't really see anything that leads me to assume that the Illusive Man is a Reaper agent, although what I have seen makes me think that TIM's 'husked' eyes gives him a good reason to perhaps being the only one who actually trusts Shephard's words that 'there's something out there' whereas the rest of the Council and the Alliance High Command (sans Anderson) not only say that Shephard is wrong, but took steps to publicly discredit our hero.

Why does he trust Shephard's telling the truth and why does TIM want to help? Because he was on Shanxi, and he got his eyes husked, and he probably recognises the After Action reports as being eerily familiar to his own experiences.

[Asheer_Khan]

Cerberus steals it from the SB

Oh please.... cerberus DID NOTHING to actually contributed in recovery of Shepard's body... it's all thanks to Liara and tim deserve NO CREDITS for what happened in Redemption...

On the contrary his decision to forbid Miranda to stop Tazzik ship when he left Omega was pretty high and absolutely UNCALLED risk because there was no guarantee what will happened in SB outpost and if Liara will manage to get out alive from that place not to mention recover Shepard's body...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 09 février 2011 - 11:40 .