310 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Cerberus steals it from the SB

Oh please.... cerberus DID NOTHING to actually contributed in recovery of Shepard's body... it's all thanks to Liara and tim deserve NO CREDITS for what happened in Redemption...

So does Liara deserve the credit? How so? If you discount TIM, the whole affair was run by Feron... Liara was just smashing and tossing things around with biotics.

Asheer_Khan wrote...

On the contrary his decision to forbid Miranda to stop Tazzik ship when he left Omega was pretty high and absolutely UNCALLED risk because there was no guarantee what will happened in SB outpost and if Liara will manage to get out alive from that place not to mention recover Shepard's body...

That's because recovering Shepard was a secondary objective of the operation. The primary objective was to infiltrate the Shadow Broker's network and obtain information on his operations.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 février 2011 - 12:10 .

[Asheer_Khan]

That's because recovering Shepard was a secondary objective of the operation. The primary objective was to infiltrate the Shadow Broker's network and obtain information on his operations.

If so... then entire tim's speech during first post lazarus meeting with Shepard how Shep is "important for humanity" was nothing more than PR bull ****...



And honestly Liara should kill Feron right on Omega when he fired that gun blowing up entire plan to intercept Shep's body before Blue Suns will hand over that pod to Tazzic...

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

If so... then entire tim's speech during first post lazarus meeting with Shepard how Shep is "important for humanity" was nothing more than PR bull ****...

You surprized?

Shepard is not much more than a MacGuffin to TIM in his game against the Shadow Broker and Collectors. Now, with both of them gone, TIM has no immediate use for Shepard. And that means even my Cerberus Loyalist Shepard will most likely go some place safe, for conservation.

Ah, well... He knew that Spectre assignment would never wash off.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 février 2011 - 02:03 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Trust me Zulu... once Normandy will be fixed My Shepard will do whatever possible to bring tim before Divine Justice.

[Kusy]

Is Anderson really black?

[Dean_the_Young]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Trust me Zulu... once Normandy will be fixed My Shepard will do whatever possible to bring tim before Divine Justice.

Why should Zulu trust you?

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Trust me Zulu... once Normandy will be fixed My Shepard will do whatever possible to bring tim before Divine Justice.

Then your Galaxy is doomed.

See, TIM is Darth Vader of the ME series, so only he can defeat the Reapers.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...
I'd say rather that the council is shared territory, under the control of the council races in concert

There's a news report which gives some insight
"Two years since the destruction of the Destiny Ascension, planning for the fleet of the new Allied Citadel Defense Unit have reached another impasse
The Asari Republics has ceded its share of defense responsibility to the Turian Hierarchy.  The Human Alliance maintains a majority share of forces"

At least in this scenario, it's clear that the forces at the citadel are as much about securing the interests of their peoples as defending the citadel from any outside threat.  They'll presumably follow council orders - but only so long as their respective governments tell them too.

The impression that ME created whenever the Council fleet was mentioned was that they could be ordered by the Council to perform some action. If that's the case, that the Council has this unilateral power, it seems that they are something more than just representatives for the government.

Certainly we could say the Council is backed by the individual member nations. But that doesn't help answer the question if the hirerarchy is Member State orders Council Representative or if it is Council Representative makes demands of Parent State.

Moiaussi wrote...
We know the terrible state of the quarian
people, though, and the fact the Council told them to go ****
themselves. Whether or not they provided military aid has no impact on
their actions with the quarian refugees.

The council
only reacted that way with respect to one world, within Council space,
and it was heavy gravity and already promised to another race better
suited to that world.

The Quarians themselves are divided over
whether to settle or hold out for retaking their home systems, and it is
possible the Quarian government chose that world precisely because they
knew it would be denied (thus making it easier for them to maintain the
status quo).

Furthermore, we know now that Rael has been
continuing the research that got them kicked off the citadel in the
first place.

The Council are not likely to consider them anything
other than a risk when they keep talking about attacking back across
the veil. They even talk about having the largest fleet, completely
ignoring the Non-heretic's fleet, which took no losses at the Citadel
war and is considered rather substantial.

The Migrant fleet is
only the largest this side of the veil and only by default, by way of
the other fleets having taking losses. It is like TIM saying similar
things about the Alliance fleet (although that was before he learned
about the Reapers).

I wasn't talking about that world. It's been 300 years since the Quarian genocide. What has the Council done for them? Other than apparently removing them as members, there appear to be no overt attempts to: 1) cure their serious immune problems, via some galactic fundraising campaign; 2) find some alternative solution to their wandering lifestyle; 3) provide economic or political support to rebuild society.

When we read about the quarians, they are a migrant and maligned group. The Council has had a tremendous opportunity to fix things.

Zulu_DFA wrote..
Then your Galaxy
is doomed.

See, TIM is Darth Vader of the ME series, so only he
can defeat the Reapers.

TIM was about as useful as the Council in ME1. Just swap refusing to believe you with occasionally trying to kill you and there you have TIM so far as Shepard was concerned. TIM is part of the problem of why Cerberus isn't working out as well for humanity as it should.

Modifié par In Exile, 09 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Jagri]

Arijharn wrote...

Even if he wasn't 'consciously' following orders, he'd still have to follow something that made sense.

Reapers (Harbinger) want to capture Shephard and task the Shadow Broker to do so.
Cerberus see's the political and morale power of Shephard and wants to keep him.
Reapers want Shephard dead or alive.
Cerberus wants Shephard alive
Reapers send the Collector's to attack the Normandy (they have to assume that he has a high chance of dying in the attack, along with everyone else). They successfully kill Shephard.
Reapers send SB to obtain his corpse.
Cerberus steals it from the SB
Cerberus resurrects our favourite Avatar of Death.
Cerberus sends Shephard to directly interfere with the Reapers agents, the Collector's.

I don't really see anything that leads me to assume that the Illusive Man is a Reaper agent, although what I have seen makes me think that TIM's 'husked' eyes gives him a good reason to perhaps being the only one who actually trusts Shephard's words that 'there's something out there' whereas the rest of the Council and the Alliance High Command (sans Anderson) not only say that Shephard is wrong, but took steps to publicly discredit our hero.
Why does he trust Shephard's telling the truth and why does TIM want to help? Because he was on Shanxi, and he got his eyes husked, and he probably recognises the After Action reports as being eerily familiar to his own experiences.

TIM is under some level of influence at least as was shown in the preview to the 2nd comic. It can be debated but he hears a very limited message in his dreams similar to Harbingers speech so the influence does exsist unless he finds some way to cut if off. If that is the case then TIM already has a successful method for blocking out the reapers indoctrination otherwise he is just a ticking time bomb. If TIM did know methods to shield himself from the Reapers then you think he would apply such methods to say the Derelict Reaper Research Team? 

That stated indoctrination tends to destroy the mind when applied strongly and TIM would be of no use under the level of influence Saren was subject. So I can see a case the Reapers just holding back and merely whispering in TIMs ears to push him in the right direction. "Wait don't destroy the Collectors Base... You can use it to expend humanities influence and power!" Of course TIM being a logical man would come to agree with that voice in the back of his mind. I believe that TIMs strong drive to advance humanity makes him venerable to suggestions as long as the voice that whispers in his mind applies a bit of logic behind it. 

Oh well applications are distrubing cause TIM is in the position where he is the only one outside of Anderson looking into reaper technology plus he likely has information on the System Alliance which would make striking earth even easier. That and the technology he might filter to the Systems Alliance could be used as a trojan horse.
So the risk is there... But as Jacob would say "But the Prize!"

Modifié par Jagri, 09 février 2011 - 03:33 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Trust me Zulu... once Normandy will be fixed My Shepard will do whatever possible to bring tim before Divine Justice.

Then your Galaxy is doomed.

See, TIM is Darth Vader of the ME series, so only he can defeat the Reapers.

heh... good joke <_<.

In compare to Vader timmy is nothing more than kindergarten bully with overgrown ego and delusion of self grandure...

Beside what Vader did on second Death Star was irrelevant because true showdown which end once for all existence of the Palpatine happened 5 years later (with all DISRESPECT for Mr Lucas for his total denial for everything writen after RoTJ<_<).

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Trust me Zulu... once Normandy will be fixed My Shepard will do whatever possible to bring tim before Divine Justice.

Then your Galaxy is doomed.

See, TIM is Darth Vader of the ME series, so only he can defeat the Reapers.

heh... good joke <_<.

In compare to Vader timmy is nothing more than kindergarten bully with overgrown ego and delusion of self grandure...

Beside what Vader did on second Death Star was irrelevant because true showdown which end once for all existence of the Palpatine happened 5 years later (with all DISRESPECT for Mr Lucas for his total denial for everything writen after RoTJ<_<).

What can I say...

Facepalm.

[Biotic_Warlock]

The only bad council member i find is the Turian one... he still doesn't like me.



Would he like me if i bought him some flowers and chocolate?

It is valentines day soon after all.

[Asheer_Khan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Trust me Zulu... once Normandy will be fixed My Shepard will do whatever possible to bring tim before Divine Justice.

Then your Galaxy is doomed.

See, TIM is Darth Vader of the ME series, so only he can defeat the Reapers.

heh... good joke <_<.

In compare to Vader timmy is nothing more than kindergarten bully with overgrown ego and delusion of self grandure...

Beside what Vader did on second Death Star was irrelevant because true showdown which end once for all existence of the Palpatine happened 5 years later (with all DISRESPECT for Mr Lucas for his total denial for everything writen after RoTJ<_<).

What can I say...

Facepalm.

Then check Dark Empire comics and you will known what i am talking about <_<.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Empire

^
to ease you search.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 09 février 2011 - 04:33 .

[Moiaussi]

Arijharn wrote...

Even if he wasn't 'consciously' following orders, he'd still have to follow something that made sense.

You misunderstood my suggestion entirely. There doesn't have to be any 'orders' in any conventional sense. Consider: TIM stopped the baby reaper from completion, but that project seemed to be supported by only a single, poorly armed and equipped ship that was not enough to stand up to... well to anything. It was defeated by a single frigate.

In stopping that project, he destroyed and/or hid some pretty conclusive evidence of the Reapers' existance, including the nigh dead reaper. He treats all other political entities (including the Alliance) as enemy.

That isn't that different from Saruman concluding that Sauron is dangerous (true!) so he had better form his own orc (or half orc, uruk-hai) army and conquer the world himself to save it, and rule it himself with Sauron's ring... for everyone else's protection, of course (not so true). All of which helped Sauron since Saruman had to go through everyone else to get his army to Mordor, and Saruman's army wasn't big enough to stand up to a single angry forrest let alone Mordor.

Rather off topic here though....

[AkiKishi]

Moiaussi wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Even if he wasn't 'consciously' following orders, he'd still have to follow something that made sense.

You misunderstood my suggestion entirely. There doesn't have to be any 'orders' in any conventional sense. Consider: TIM stopped the baby reaper from completion, but that project seemed to be supported by only a single, poorly armed and equipped ship that was not enough to stand up to... well to anything. It was defeated by a single frigate.

In stopping that project, he destroyed and/or hid some pretty conclusive evidence of the Reapers' existance, including the nigh dead reaper. He treats all other political entities (including the Alliance) as enemy.

That isn't that different from Saruman concluding that Sauron is dangerous (true!) so he had better form his own orc (or half orc, uruk-hai) army and conquer the world himself to save it, and rule it himself with Sauron's ring... for everyone else's protection, of course (not so true). All of which helped Sauron since Saruman had to go through everyone else to get his army to Mordor, and Saruman's army wasn't big enough to stand up to a single angry forrest let alone Mordor.

Rather off topic here though....

Quick correction Saruman gazed into the Palantir of Orthanc and was snared. Saruman was like Saren he thought he had free will , but he was a puppet.

TIM could very well be in a similiar situation. Gaze too long into the Abyss and it gazes back.

[Moiaussi]

In Exile wrote...

The impression that ME created whenever the Council fleet was mentioned was that they could be ordered by the Council to perform some action. If that's the case, that the Council has this unilateral power, it seems that they are something more than just representatives for the government.

Certainly we could say the Council is backed by the individual member nations. But that doesn't help answer the question if the hirerarchy is Member State orders Council Representative or if it is Council Representative makes demands of Parent State.

 
You do realize that every race, even the Asari, have a representative form of democracy. The Asari vote on pretty much everything major but still appoint representatives, since someone has to decide what is important enough to vote on.

Furthermore, we know that the Turians deployed the Genophage without Council consent. They also attacked humanity with Council consent. So we know that the individual member states are still autonomous, at least in practice.

This describes the Council as more of a functional UN, without the veto power of the security council but with much more limited membership instead.

I wasn't talking about that world. It's been 300 years since the Quarian genocide. What has the Council done for them? Other than apparently removing them as members, there appear to be no overt attempts to: 1) cure their serious immune problems, via some galactic fundraising campaign; 2) find some alternative solution to their wandering lifestyle; 3) provide economic or political support to rebuild society.

When we read about the quarians, they are a migrant and maligned group. The Council has had a tremendous opportunity to fix things.

 
Pardon, but there is no evidence that the Quarians are doing anything about their immune systems. They don't consider it a problem. They evolved that way to surive on their homeworld.

As for their wandering lifestyle, they still don't acknowledge their own degree of culpability in it having come to that. They still talk about going back to war with the Geth despite having a lot less than they had when they fought the Morning War and despite the Geth having a lot more. Until they come to grips with that themselves, they doom themselves to wandering. What is the solution to 'rebuild' their society? Take it over and force reforms on them? 

TIM was about as useful as the Council in ME1. Just swap refusing to believe you with occasionally trying to kill you and there you have TIM so far as Shepard was concerned. TIM is part of the problem of why Cerberus isn't working out as well for humanity as it should.

TIM considers the Alliance to be an enemy, not merely the Council to be an enemy. He was interested in subverting Shepard to 'the cause' before he even knew about the Reapers.

[Tennessee88]

Curious as to where you found evidence that TIM wanted to subvert Shepard to the cause before the Reapers even existed. Just interested, not saying it doesn't exist.

[Moiaussi]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Quick correction Saruman gazed into the Palantir of Orthanc and was snared. Saruman was like Saren he thought he had free will , but he was a puppet.

TIM could very well be in a similiar situation. Gaze too long into the Abyss and it gazes back.

Movie version or the books? In the books, it was much more subtle than in the movie. In the movie he was essentially mind controlled, staring into the palantir and saying 'yes master.' In the books he 'saw what Sauron wanted him to see.' He was fed misimformation and subtly 'nudged' in the direction Sauron wanted.

In the movies there is no indication at all that he intended his armies to challenge Mordor.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

TIM considers the Alliance to be an enemy

Source?

Moiaussi wrote...

not merely the Council to be an enemy.

Source?

Moiaussi wrote...

He was interested in subverting Shepard to 'the cause' before he even knew about the Reapers.

Source?

[jbblue05]

You don't divert the time and resources into creating the Genophage without the intent of using it. Mordin is lying or being naive if he actually believes the Council just wanted to "talk" to the Krogans.



When does TIM consider the Alliance an enemy? If anything he's allied with the Alliance. given all the connectionss they have with each other

Explain to me how TIM was trying to recruit Shepard to Cerberus prior to learning about the Reapers.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Source? Source? Source?

Ascension, Ascenscion, Ascension.

Feeling a bit repetitious today? Do you need.... and answer.... after.... every word?

[Moiaussi]

jbblue05 wrote...

You don't divert the time and resources into creating the Genophage without the intent of using it. Mordin is lying or being naive if he actually believes the Council just wanted to "talk" to the Krogans.

When does TIM consider the Alliance an enemy? If anything he's allied with the Alliance. given all the connectionss they have with each other
Explain to me how TIM was trying to recruit Shepard to Cerberus prior to learning about the Reapers.

Mordin? That was from ME1 and I think it was from Wrex, but might have been the Codex. Before we met Mordin at any rate. It was intended to be used as a threat, and that they would try to talk to the Krogan first. That likely would have failled but that is beside the point. It was deployed before authorization to do so was given.

That TIM considers the Alliance an enemy and that he wanted to recruit Shepard before learning about the Reapers is from the prologue of "Ascension", which is considered canon.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Source? Source? Source?

Ascension, Ascenscion, Ascension.

Feeling a bit repetitious today? Do you need.... and answer.... after.... every word?

Quotes please.

But before that, consider:

In "ME: Galaxy" Jacob Taylor saved the Council from a terror attack, and who was guiding him? Right, Cerberus Operative Miranda Lawson. Guess she went all rogue, just to get to the Priiize, while TIM was busy with his Asari "liaisons", but normally, the Council is still an enemy of Cerberus. Duh.

[jbblue05]

Moiaussi wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

You don't divert the time and resources into creating the Genophage without the intent of using it. Mordin is lying or being naive if he actually believes the Council just wanted to "talk" to the Krogans.

When does TIM consider the Alliance an enemy? If anything he's allied with the Alliance. given all the connectionss they have with each other
Explain to me how TIM was trying to recruit Shepard to Cerberus prior to learning about the Reapers.

Mordin? That was from ME1 and I think it was from Wrex, but might have been the Codex. Before we met Mordin at any rate. It was intended to be used as a threat, and that they would try to talk to the Krogan first. That likely would have failled but that is beside the point. It was deployed before authorization to do so was given.

That TIM considers the Alliance an enemy and that he wanted to recruit Shepard before learning about the Reapers is from the prologue of "Ascension", which is considered canon.

TUrians weren't on the Council during the Krogan Rebellions. they had no autorization to the Ganophage unless STG or the Council gave it to them.

Ascension is post ME1 and their is no mention of TIM trying to recruit Shepard.  Shepard's accomplishments are the only thing mentioned.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Source? Source? Source?

Ascension, Ascenscion, Ascension.

Feeling a bit repetitious today? Do you need.... and answer.... after.... every word?

Ascension supported none of those claims.