161 réponses à ce sujet

[Dayshadow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...

Anders is not a party member. His role is equivalent to Jowan, Zathrian or Teagan.

How do you know that?

The Maker told me.

[Dayshadow]

dreamextractor wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

I mean the whole point o DA2 is to travel to an all new land with a new hero to have all new adventures.  However every other person we meets is someone who knew the Warden.  I mean we know that the Keeper and Merril are both back from the Dalish Origin.  Isabella is back from the Pearl.  And Anders from Awakening is back.  Not only that but all three are companions of Hawke!  Way to make everything new....
I mean Bioware has taken the saying 'Its a small world"  and used it as the foundations of expanding their world.
It's like if I moved to Canada tomorrow and every other person I meet knows my neighbor form back in Jersey.

Anders is not a party member. His role is equivalent to Jowan, Zathrian or Teagan.

The other two were forgettable. The Merril in DA2 isn't even the same. She might as well be a whole new character. Not to mention she was only present for about 30 minutes. And Isabella had 10 minutes in Origins.

I guess you haven't read this thread.

Oh, I've seen it.

[Threeparts]

I look at it less as a coincidence that all these people with a connection to the Warden just happen to find themselves in Kirkwall at around the same time, and more as parts of an overarching story. The hand of destiny at work, if you will.

I don't know how much fate plays a part in the world of Thedas, but I'm intrigued with the idea that we'll see the effect of all these lives changing the course of history right up to a climatic storyline two or three games down the line at the end of the current Age.



Exchanging 'destiny' or 'fate' for 'Flemeth scheming' also works!

[dreamextractor]

Dayshadow wrote...

dreamextractor wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

I mean the whole point o DA2 is to travel to an all new land with a new hero to have all new adventures.  However every other person we meets is someone who knew the Warden.  I mean we know that the Keeper and Merril are both back from the Dalish Origin.  Isabella is back from the Pearl.  And Anders from Awakening is back.  Not only that but all three are companions of Hawke!  Way to make everything new....
I mean Bioware has taken the saying 'Its a small world"  and used it as the foundations of expanding their world.
It's like if I moved to Canada tomorrow and every other person I meet knows my neighbor form back in Jersey.

Anders is not a party member. His role is equivalent to Jowan, Zathrian or Teagan.

The other two were forgettable. The Merril in DA2 isn't even the same. She might as well be a whole new character. Not to mention she was only present for about 30 minutes. And Isabella had 10 minutes in Origins.

I guess you haven't read this thread.

Oh, I've seen it.

Oh, you're in denial then. Okay!

[Jimmy Fury]

Dayshadow wrote...
Anders is not a full fledged party member. His role is equivalent to Jowan, Zathrian or Teagan.

The other two were forgettable. The Merril in DA2 isn't even the same. She might as well be a whole new character. Not to mention she was only present for about 30 minutes. And Isabella had 10 minutes in Origins.

He sure looks like a party member in the new video released to announce him as a party member...
Unless of course there is WoG backing up your claim that has gone unnoticed by the rest of us.

I digress though, this isn't an Anders thread.
I'm mostly just in shock. This is the first thread I've seen complaining that DA2 is too much like Origins...

-edit: because I forgot how words work apparently-

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 08 février 2011 - 04:39 .

[TheRevanchist]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...
Anders is not a full fledged party member. His role is equivalent to Jowan, Zathrian or Teagan.

The other two were forgettable. The Merril in DA2 isn't even the same. She might as well be a whole new character. Not to mention she was only present for about 30 minutes. And Isabella had 10 minutes in Origins.

He sure looks like a party member in the new video released to announce him as a party member...
Unless of course there is WoG backing up your claim that has gone unnoticed by the rest of us.

I digress though, this isn't an Anders thread.
I'm mostly just in shock. This is the first thread of seen complaining that DA2 is too much like Origins...

To me the difference is this...people wanted gameplay and such to be about the same...which it is, just updated. But people like myself...think "hey...it's a new story...I want new faces, not rehashed faces I've already seen." I'm mainly talking about Anders personaly...idc if Merrill or Isabella's here...I'm hating the Anders thing because...I killed Anders.....

[David Gaider]

kylecouch wrote...
Mr Gaider theres a difference between returning characters and bringing possibly dead characters back from the dead...I'm guessing the rage over the US ret-con wasn't a clear enough signal that this is a bad idea.

That's not the same thing at all. The US in Awakening was unfortunate and unintended, but we didn't even try to explain that in the story. It was simply your choice whether you chose to import that ending or not, and wasn't the best situation all around.

I didn't give a crap about Merrill or Isabella because they were such small characters. In fact I played the Dalish origin once...and only once...so I totaly forgot she existed until she was announced...then I had to look her up on the DA Wiki and said to myself "huh...I don't remember her at all"...but Anders?...seriously?...I can understand the possible camo if he DIDN'T die...like Wrex for example...but a Companion!? Geez...this is outrageous as far as I'm concerned. I feel like this is turning into Dragonball Z where death means absolutly nothing.

...whereas Anders' presence is utterly intended, and explained. You may not like the explanation, granted, but you also don't even know what it is. And considering his death (or lack thereof) happened in an epilogue, one you weren't even present to witness, I'll chalk up your "outrage" to being a bit of exaggeration. We are not resurrecting people left and right. You will see.

[TheMadCat]

David Gaider wrote...

That's not why we did it, as it "gosh we need to make this feel like a sequel!" ...but the idea was to have threads of continuity from one game to the next. Lots of stories do that, and if someone's going to suggest that they already know all there is to know about Isabela, Merrill and Anders and that we couldn't possibly do anything new with them... well, I'll leave that for them to discover on their own whether or not it's true. Evidently when it comes to ties to the first game it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't", so I'll just be happily damned.

Was there really a need to have this many threads of continuity?, especially since there seems to be a strong attempt to create an artistic distinction between the two. Having so many characters make a return, even if they were in small roles in the previous title does give it the small world effect and isn't really necessary to do. I mean it's a different story with a different central character set in a different country so I just don't really see the purpose of having so many return. I'd think one minor turning into a companion would have been plenty to solve the need to continuity and create the relation between the two chapters, but I believe we're at 4 now between Origins and Awakening? And that's what we know up to this point. Just seems a bit excessive to me.

[TheRevanchist]

Mr Gaider I love your work as a writer...so I shall give you the benifit of the doubt in this situation...but it better be a darn good explination lol.

[David Gaider]

TheMadCat wrote...
Was there really a need to have this many threads of continuity?

Yes.

Having so many characters make a return

That's three, only one of which was a party member. We are not transplanting the entire cast. Please spare me the hyperbole.

[AlanC9]

Felfenix wrote...

This really shows that people will complain no matter what... Everyone was complaining that there wasn't enough from Origins. Now everyone's complaining there's too much from Origins. The forum has complained about everything from every end of the spectrum, and the game isn't even out yet.

Well, to paraphrase Maggie Thatcher, there is no such thing as "the forum." There's just a bunch of individuals with varying concerns, including some that are kind of silly.

[TheRevanchist]

Well as long as Velanna or Justice don't show up I'll more then likely keep my rage cap off as far as further companions are concerned.

Modifié par kylecouch, 08 février 2011 - 04:52 .

[upsettingshorts]

kylecouch wrote...

But yes...I agree with this...it seems a tad excessive.

That's the thing.  There is no objective gauge for "too much/not enough continuity."  I don't begrudge you or anyone else your particular preference for where that threshold lies - and as long as that's all it is, then I don't really have a problem with it.  

That being said, I do have a hard time understanding it.  So if someone could explain to me what the precise issue is with this kind of continuity - minor characters recurring, or however you'd like to describe it - I'd appreciate it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 février 2011 - 04:53 .

[David Gaider]

kylecouch wrote...
Mr Gaider I love your work as a writer...so I shall give you the benifit of the doubt in this situation...but it better be a darn good explination lol.

I think it is, but I'll break it to you right now: I won't be shattered if you don't agree.

[Brockololly]

If it makes sense plot-wise for some old characters to show up in Kirkwall then go for it. Again, its not like DA2 is set in the northern reaches of the Anderfels on the far side of Thedas. Kirkwall is rather close by, and given that it seems to be a pretty big trading/hub sort of city for travel, its probably not a stretch that some of Origins' people end up there or pass through there.



For reference:





And we've got what? Isabela, a pirate who sails around all over on ships. Merrill, who already was mentioned in Origins to be going north with her clan, and Anders (or Janders) seemingly helping out with refugees from the Blight who are overcrowding Kirkwall.



I don't mind cameos if they make sense- although, I think they have more meaning when its a returning PC and not a new one.

[TheRevanchist]

David Gaider wrote...

kylecouch wrote...
Mr Gaider I love your work as a writer...so I shall give you the benifit of the doubt in this situation...but it better be a darn good explination lol.

I think it is, but I'll break it to you right now: I won't be shattered if you don't agree.

.........It's Justice isn't it.........something tells me it is......

[Morroian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

But yes...I agree with this...it seems a tad excessive.

That's the thing.  There is no objective gauge for "too much/not enough continuity."  I don't begrudge you or anyone else your particular preference for where that threshold lies - and as long as that's all it is, then I don't really have a problem with it.  

That being said, I do have a hard time understanding it.  So if someone could explain to me what the precise issue is with this kind of continuity - minor characters recurring, or however you'd like to describe it - I'd appreciate it.

People want new characters, I know I do, especially considering we only get 6 companions in the base game. Merril and Isabella were fine because they were so minor but Anders is close to being the equal of having one of the DAO companions return. They look to have put an interesting twist on Anders however which mitigates the situation to a certain extent.

[upsettingshorts]

So then, that complaint more or less goes out of the window if Anders is significantly changed from his appearance in DAA, does it not?

...because he'd be different.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[TheRevanchist]

If it IS Justice....I'm actually MORE upset....because I think I actually hated Justice just a little bit more than Anders...however Velanna holds the candle for the most hated DAA character.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That being said, I do have a hard time understanding it.  So if someone could explain to me what the precise issue is with this kind of continuity - minor characters recurring, or however you'd like to describe it - I'd appreciate it.

Won't speak for anyone else, but I think there is a bit of "them again?"  Having someone all new is shiny and well... new.

In theory I like continuity, it's just the characters I actually want to see again pop in and say hello before heading off to the Bannorn or Montsimmard, or go down in mysterious shipwrecks and are never heard from again. 

[TheMadCat]

David Gaider wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...
Was there really a need to have this many threads of continuity?

Yes.

Having so many characters make a return

That's three, only one of which was a party member. We are not transplanting the entire cast. Please spare me the hyperbole.

Hyperbole? Really? I stated 4 (Anders, Merril, Isabella, and the cameo by Alistair), which to me seems quite a bit considering this is a story set in a different country with a different central character. And I also acknowledged they mostly had small roles, which doesn't dissipate the small world effect. But I apologize, I'll stop questioning your obviously flawless writing talents and decision making which are above critique by mere mortals such as myself.

[BeardedNinja]

Dayshadow wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

I mean the whole point o DA2 is to travel to an all new land with a new hero to have all new adventures.  However every other person we meets is someone who knew the Warden.  I mean we know that the Keeper and Merril are both back from the Dalish Origin.  Isabella is back from the Pearl.  And Anders from Awakening is back.  Not only that but all three are companions of Hawke!  Way to make everything new....
I mean Bioware has taken the saying 'Its a small world"  and used it as the foundations of expanding their world.
It's like if I moved to Canada tomorrow and every other person I meet knows my neighbor form back in Jersey.

Anders is not a full fledged party member. His role is equivalent to Jowan, Zathrian or Teagan.

The other two were forgettable. The Merril in DA2 isn't even the same. She might as well be a whole new character. Not to mention she was only present for about 30 minutes. And Isabella had 10 minutes in Origins.

Yeah that  Game Informer video w/ Anders in it fighting in your party totally wasnt Anders, dont pay attentin to those facts at all

[JasonPogo]

Well for me personaly add to it that Anders was not that original of a character to begin with. I mean he is just Alistair as a mage. But I go back to what I said before. I think if they had left it with Isabella I would have been fine with it. But then to add Merril and Anders is just to much. Give us new characters to play with. In all honesty any companion characters should have been new characters in my perfect world. We already played with Anders. If I want to use him I'll go play Awakaning again.

[Eshaye]

lol... Of course people are going to complain about too many 'old' characters coming back. I'm finding the irony pretty funny considering how many of us were upset months ago we couldn't play our wardens in DA2 and we couldn't have all our companions back in Awakening or DA2....



You cannot please the masses.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So then, that complaint more or less goes out of the window if Anders is significantly changed from his appearance in DAA, does it not?

...because he'd be different.

Well then it's not continuity, is it?  Not meaningful continuity.