161 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

I for one will wait and see how they fit into the story before I start raging (or not)

I mean, the names that I've seen all make sense as wanderers:  a Dalish elf, a ship captain, a runaway mage, an exiled drunk. 

Also given the Free Marches, while a seperate region from Ferelden, is still fairly close by geographically speaking.  I mean, Ferelden refugees fled there from the Blight, right?  Given that, and the overlapping timelines, it only makes sense to see a few familiar faces.  Those who would wander across borders.

As long as it doesn't get to the point where I feel like half the cast from DAO is following me around, waving to the screen and saying "Hi, remember me?  I have a cameo too!  By the way, would you mind talking to that person on the other side of the room for me?" I mean, there are limits

[TheMadCat]

David Gaider wrote...

Oh, please. I'd be fine with critique if it involved anything more than speculation regarding what people are assuming to be true... or if a few characters, some of whom you barely knew and the others who have entirely new stories to tell, showing up in a new story is somehow a tragedy then I don't know what to say, really. You'd think, from some of the comments, that these were the only characters in a story chock full of new characters.

What speculation was there in my post? Where did I use a hyperbole outside of that tiny little snippet you quoted and took completely out of context? I stated there are four characters that at least made an appearance in Origins/Awakening making at least an appearance in 2, even if that appearance revolves around certain plot choices made in Origins/Awakening. I noted that this is what we know up to this point because obviously we don't know everything, there may be more there may not. I said that four felt like quite a bit considering this is a new chapter involving a new central character set in a different country and could create a small world feel. More so since there is an attempt to seperate the two artistically which lends the impression that there was an overall goal seperate itself from the previous chapter. What stories you can expand on and all the new character was utterly irrelevant to my question. 

I mean geez all I really asked was if bringing back this many character was really best for the plot, was this many needed to create that thread of continuity you spoke of. Why you isolated two sentences and called me out for using hyperbole is beyond me.

Of course, if we didn't have these characters there'd be an entirely different set of people complaining how it wasn't really a sequel with nothing to tie it to the first-- oh wait, they do that too. Or complaining about it not being the right characters-- wait, got that too.

What does this comment have to do with anything? Did my post really look like the usual incoherent BS that typically comes with complaints?

Modifié par TheMadCat, 08 février 2011 - 05:55 .

[MarchWaltz]

One of my female wardens had a hot lesbian (hot) threesome which including said warden, isabelle, and leliana.



Would be cool if in that save import Isabelle says, in a random conversation, I HAD HOT LESBIAN SEX WITH THE HERO OF FERELDAN AND HER HOT GIRLFRIEND RED HAIRED BARD PERSON.

[Yodefet]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Just like in Real Life with New York, in Thedas, interesting people are only from Ferelden.

There are Fereldans in New York?

[AlanC9]

TheMadCat wrote...
I mean geez all I really asked was if bringing back this many character was really necessary for the plot,

Necessary? That's the criterion?

[TheMadCat]

AlanC9 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...
I mean geez all I really asked was if bringing back this many character was really necessary for the plot,

Necessary? That's the criterion?

Nitpiking? Poor word choice perhaps, wasn't the inital word I used though so I'll change it.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 08 février 2011 - 05:56 .

[David Gaider]

TheMadCat wrote...
What does this comment have to do with anything? Did my post really look like the usual incoherent BS that typically comes with complaints?

Sorry if I seemed snappish. I wasn't responding solely to you, but to the posts I'd read previously as a whole. You just get singled out for my response. Don't you feel honored?

[TheMadCat]

David Gaider wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...
What does this comment have to do with anything? Did my post really look like the usual incoherent BS that typically comes with complaints?

Sorry if I seemed snappish. I wasn't responding solely to you, but to the posts I'd read previously as a whole. You just get singled out for my response. Don't you feel honored?

As honored as one can feel I guess.

[HTTP 404]

better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.



wait this isnt a confucius thread?

[Emssry4]

A Turkey Frog wrote...

But you hardly got to know Merril and Isabela at all, so they're pretty much new characters IMO. I believe Bioware made them companions to give this game a sense of nostalgia, which is a pretty smart decision.

Yeah, it's not a direct sequel but I think they'd want to have things related. Also ME2 had returning companions, but they weren't the exact same as they were in ME1. I mean, they seemed to go more in depth with back story instead, "Hey I'm someone who you've never met beffore, join my team as we take down a rogue spectre, btw alien gods send me visions."

[HTTP 404]

I just want to say in the OP that in Charles Dickens novels, the main characters would always run into people from his past.  many critics of Dickens complained just as you have OP about this.  I just thought that was interesting, this is hundreds of years old critique of stories doing this.

So what Im saying is that David Gaider= Charles Dickens

[TheMadCat]

HTTP 404 wrote...

better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.

wait this isnt a confucius thread?

But this isn't really a flaw, just a design choice that myself and apparently others feel lessen the suspension of disbelief. To many "coincidences" can (Not always) be a bad thing.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 08 février 2011 - 06:13 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

HTTP 404 wrote...

So what Im saying is that David Gaider= Charles Dickens

So David Gaider met The Doctor?! [/DoctorWhonerd]

[Cyr8]

Atakuma wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Artistic license. It helps establish continuity between the games, as well as being a nice little bonus for the fans. DAII is NOT real life.

Or they just didn't want to come up with a new character.

Atakuma, I've seen quite a few posts from you, all of them negative. Do you actually like anything that Bioware has done with this game? If not, maybe you should just cancel your preorder and leave.

[Blackout62]

There's some sort of beautiful metaphor for globalization or something in the title thread title. OP I may have to steal it for a research paper.

[Eclipse_9990]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Artistic license. It helps establish continuity between the games, as well as being a nice little bonus for the fans. DAII is NOT real life.

Or they just didn't want to come up with a new character.

This is the third thread I've noticed you in tonight in which you've been incredibly unhappy. *hands you a cookie* I dispense hugs too, but only on request.

Lol as far as I've noticed she's always unhappy. She's pretty much the dictionary definition of a "Debbie Downer". 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 08 février 2011 - 07:45 .

[Saibh]

I do think three companions out of seven--one of whom is our brother/sister and the Warden obviously wouldn't know--is just too many. The arguments that I debated against when people complained about Isabela's conclusion ("Why not just use a new character?") ring a lot truer to me now that there are a three (sort-of four) companions returning. Why not just make a new Dalish mage? Why did it have to be Merrill? We already had two other character returning.



I'm not outrageously upset. I'm not even irritated, I guess. Mostly, I just can't jump up on the hype wagon, and I want to hyped. So isn't that just a downer? I can't get excited over this piece of news.

[Saibh]

[img][/img]

Modifié par Saibh, 08 février 2011 - 08:21 .

[Dubya75]

I find it laughable how people can find so much stuff to complain about when they only have snippets of information and haven't even played the game.

The people at Bioware (including Gaider) work VERY hard to provide us with a quality game and all they seem to get most of the time is criticism. This is not right.

We haven't even seen the roles these returning character will play in DA, isn't it a bit premature winging and whining about it?

Maybe we need to put ourselves in their shoes for a moment before posting pointless rants. These guys have feelings too and to be receiving criticism like this must truly be soul destroying.

Now, I'm not playing innocent, I've complained about many things since DA2 became known. I just think we're getting to a stage where complaining about things that are already set in stone is pointless and not in any way constructive.

[Saibh]

Dubya75 wrote...

I find it laughable how people can find so much stuff to complain about when they only have snippets of information and haven't even played the game.
The people at Bioware (including Gaider) work VERY hard to provide us with a quality game and all they seem to get most of the time is criticism. This is not right.
We haven't even seen the roles these returning character will play in DA, isn't it a bit premature winging and whining about it?
Maybe we need to put ourselves in their shoes for a moment before posting pointless rants. These guys have feelings too and to be receiving criticism like this must truly be soul destroying.
Now, I'm not playing innocent, I've complained about many things since DA2 became known. I just think we're getting to a stage where complaining about things that are already set in stone is pointless and not in any way constructive.

That does not mean you can't show that you don't appreciate something.

If DAII were a complete failure, it's already been made, hasn't it? So why bother telling them they've made a bomb? After all, it's set in stone. By voicing our opinions now, we set the foundations for a better solution later.

And, you know what? You are just as wrong to say that you can't criticize. A common (and irritating) misconception about the fanbase is that we're all one big person with conflicting ideas. That we're some how inconsistent because we have different opinions on things.

I played DAII for the companions and story. Another may have played for the combat. We will have different opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of DAII. What may please me, may not please him. So, no, this isn't being petty about complaints. This isn't complaining about everything, because oh my god we're so selfish. I normally have no complaints. If everyone were me, you'd pretty much only hear praise. Except at a few key points. But I'm not everyone. So different people have different complaints.

...isn't it a bit premature winging and whining about it?

I just think we're getting to a stage where complaining about things that are already set in stone is pointless and not in any way constructive.

So, your response is to never voice your dissatisfaction? Because we haven't played the game or don't know enough, and, once we have played it or do know enough, it's too late. That solves nothing. I've seen many changes in DAII based on the criticism and hopes of these forums. So, no, waiting around to see how something works isn't always the right answer.

Modifié par Saibh, 08 février 2011 - 08:41 .

[David Gaider]

Saibh wrote...
I do think three companions out of seven--one of whom is our brother/sister and the Warden obviously wouldn't know--is just too many. The arguments that I debated against when people complained about Isabela's conclusion ("Why not just use a new character?") ring a lot truer to me now that there are a three (sort-of four) companions returning. Why not just make a new Dalish mage? Why did it have to be Merrill? We already had two other character returning.

I'd agree, unless there's something about that particular character returning that we find interesting. Some aspect of their story that hasn't been told, or a way they can change that makes their character something new. New characters are awesome, but I think there's also something to be said about characters that you see again. I love stories when that happens-- so long as it doesn't happen too often. Then it just feels like name-dropping.

Personally, I think we missed the boat with regards to Oghren in DAO:A. He's a fun character and all, but we had the chance to do something different with him and didn't. Not that there was room to do a lot in Awakening, but we should have done something. With regards to the characters returning in DA2, short of the occasional cameo (which is just that) these characters are here for a point, and if we didn't use them we'd have to tell a completely different story-- which would be fine, too, I just happen to like these ones. Eventually you'll see for yourselves.

[obnoxiousgas]

Eh, time for an appropriate Neil Gaiman quote.

Neil Gaiman wrote...
It is a small world. You do not have to live in it particularly long to learn that for yourself. There is a theory that, in the whole world, there are only five hundred real people (the cast, as it were; all the rest of the people in the world, the theory suggests, are extras) and what is more, they all know each other. And it's true, or true as far as it goes. In reality the world is made of thousands upon thousands of groups of about five hundred people, all of whom will spend their lives bumping into each other, trying to avoid each other, and discovering each other in the same unlikely teashop in Vancouver. There is an unavoidability to this process. It's not even coincidence. It's just the way the world works, with no regard for individuals or for propriety.

Now, if we change the number 500 to something more proportionate in terms of how many people we will ever meet in a video game at the moment, it works out pretty well.

On the other hand, maybe I'm biased because I either like or at the very least am ambivalent towards the returning characters, and if I didn't feel that way I'd be whining like there was no tomorrow.

[duckphone07]

David Gaider wrote...

Personally, I think we missed the boat with regards to Oghren in DAO:A. He's a fun character and all, but we had the chance to do something different with him and didn't. Not that there was room to do a lot in Awakening, but we should have done something. With regards to the characters returning in DA2, short of the occasional cameo (which is just that) these characters are here for a point, and if we didn't use them we'd have to tell a completely different story-- which would be fine, too, I just happen to like these ones. Eventually you'll see for yourselves.

I assume I am in the minority, but I really enjoyed what was done with Oghren in Awakening.  He was a fun character, as you said, but I think he did something more(At least for me). 

When I first started Awakening, I was surprised at how quickly things began, and how new and different it felt.  It was exciting, but also a little unnerving.  When Oghren showed up, I was also surprised at how relieved I was.  He was something familiar.  He was something to connect me back to the adventures of my warden in Origins.  And I was also relieved he didn't change much.  I had always found his humor very funny in Origins, and I also found it funny in Awakening.  I would have all these serious conversations with other companions, and then run over to Oghren so he could tell me about his crazy dream and pass out.  He was a reminder for me, and my Warden, to not take things too seriously. 

The main reason I enjoyed him not changing so much is, I think it added to his character.  Change in characters over time is good, but not all people change that much over time.  He had a kid, but still couldn't make himself become responsible and stay with his family.  That is interesting.  It would be unrealistic if every character went through some big change.  Change is intriguing, but not changing can be just as intriguing.

[PanosSmirnakos]

duckphone07 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Personally, I think we missed the boat with regards to Oghren in DAO:A. He's a fun character and all, but we had the chance to do something different with him and didn't. Not that there was room to do a lot in Awakening, but we should have done something. With regards to the characters returning in DA2, short of the occasional cameo (which is just that) these characters are here for a point, and if we didn't use them we'd have to tell a completely different story-- which would be fine, too, I just happen to like these ones. Eventually you'll see for yourselves.

I assume I am in the minority, but I really enjoyed what was done with Oghren in Awakening.  He was a fun character, as you said, but I think he did something more(At least for me). 

When I first started Awakening, I was surprised at how quickly things began, and how new and different it felt.  It was exciting, but also a little unnerving.  When Oghren showed up, I was also surprised at how relieved I was.  He was something familiar.  He was something to connect me back to the adventures of my warden in Origins.  And I was also relieved he didn't change much.  I had always found his humor very funny in Origins, and I also found it funny in Awakening.  I would have all these serious conversations with other companions, and then run over to Oghren so he could tell me about his crazy dream and pass out.  He was a reminder for me, and my Warden, to not take things too seriously. 

The main reason I enjoyed him not changing so much is, I think it added to his character.  Change in characters over time is good, but not all people change that much over time.  He had a kid, but still couldn't make himself become responsible and stay with his family.  That is interesting.  It would be unrealistic if every character went through some big change.  Change is intriguing, but not changing can be just as intriguing.

I respect your opinion and I can understand it but for me Oghren was the definition of a "one-dimensional character". You know, the one who lacks depth and who never seems to learn or grow or change from his experiences or has some variety in the way he reacts. He was damned to be a drunken dwarf with childish jokes and behavior for eternity. You can describe him in one sentence. He wasn't that bad in Origins though, but if I could, I'd chose a dwarven warrior like Gorim than Oghren as a companion / comrade in arms to aid me with the darkspawn.

[ninnisinni97]

Oh please, how can people complain about a thing like this?! I mean, I doubt BioWare just sat down with blindfolds and a list of all the companions in Origins & Awakening, and simply chose the returning characters at random...

So long as there is a good reason for every returning character, I'm satisfied.