81 réponses à ce sujet

[Mopreme_]

blasphemae wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

You can set the game to "Do not connect me to the internet" check in the login menu and the DLC should work even offline.

Can you please tell me specifically where this "do not connect me to the internet" option is? I just went in the game, looked at the online options and the log in options, and did not see it.

Click bottom left where it says logged in, should take you to account options.

[Greye]

I bought Champions Online from Steam, and I will not get another game from Steam again either. It's annoying, puts your game in a weird place, auto-updates, forces you to log in and play through Steam, etc. It's interesting and has potential, but unfortunately it's a middleman that causes too many problems. I don't think the OP is correct in blaming Bioware.

[Daveraa]

Gaming industry falling apart????? On what planet?

OK so the world wide ressesion has had an impact on games compaines (just like pretty much everyone else) but apart from that little blip the gaming industry has been growing extremely fast over the past 10 years. 

Just look at the sales figures for games, it seems every new big game breaks the previous records for number of sales or profit or some such. 

DRM is a totally misplaced effort to illicit even greater profits out of an already highly profitable area.

Teh music industry has already tried all this DRM stuff and is now waking up to the fact that its more hassle than its worth. There will always be pirates and there will always be people who are willing to pay (and people who do both). The best way to make the most money is to make the purchase as easy as possible at the best, most reasonable price without lots of limitations on its use.

Modifié par Daveraa, 14 novembre 2009 - 02:57 .

[imsayingit]

Digital validation of DLCs is a form of DRM. You can play them offline, after you have "validated" online.

[DragonRageGT]

Sblade wrote...

RageGT, this isn´t the way to go. Publishers need their software protected. Gamers need that the protection works effectively and without being invasive.
Going to a dev site forum and threatening the devs for their use of DRM does not cause anything productive, as they have the firm decission of protecting their product.
However, we could offer support and learn ways of improving the protections used so they make their work while avoiding the irritation of gamers.

RYG/P.R.I.S.M was born with that objective, and we are growing out. We are currently talking and evaluating 2 major DRM vendors. RageGT I invite you to read www.the-prism.com or www.reclaimyourgame.com and read the interviews.

On the forum you could learn about some games tested that their DRM behaves nice with end-users (gamers)
As for your personal problem with the EADM, contact EA tech support or anyone of this site´s administrator (in bold letters just at the botton of the window) and they may provide some help.
Alternate way tell me the exact error message you are getting and I might be able to help.

Later
Blade

Blade, I ain't complaining about DRM whatsoever, although they don't work right since cracked images are all over for anything you want... and those who use that and never buy the legit copy are way less bothered by DRM than legit owners. (if that is the term because as I read somewhere, we don't own the game, just a licence to it).

I said I already paid twice for a game and I still don't have the game!!! Not the one I want anyway... I am playing it but I had to resort to torrent and i don't feel bad at all because I did bought the game, twice, although I'm getting a refund for first one since it is published on EA website that their download manager does not work on a 64 bit OS. (at least on Win 7 64... not sure about Vista but I ain't downgrading my pc for that)

So, again, I didn't threatened the Devs for having DRM but for having a publisher that can't deliver the game globally, as advertised. (EA Brazil went from the 6th to 13th and now who knows... they say in their site that game is in stores now but that is not true)

And if you don't release something globally, on the Internet Age, you're likely to loose a lot off sales, because people will have the goods on the day of the first release no matter how!

As for DRM, I'll check those sites and please try and read above links, posted by a german guy, moderaton on World off Risen website, that I think works in the area and has some brilliant ideas and the right approach to it.

foobar's thoughts on copy protection
foobar77.spacequadrat.de/thoughts-on-cp.html

Myths about DRM
foobar77.spacequadrat.de/drm-myths.html

A proposal for a better copy protection system
foobar77.spacequadrat.de/fsncp.html

Modifié par RageGT, 14 novembre 2009 - 03:10 .

[JerseySeven]

dchalf10 wrote...

@blasphemae

I too would like to know this, I think alot of people don't realise that it logs in automatically, can anyone confirm that with no internet connected at all ( as in no cable or wireless on) the dlc still loads

I can confirm that I am not automatically logged in and still have access to the DLC. Win7 x64, DAO patched to 1.01.

I have my router on a powerbar.  I turn it off unless I specifically want to use the net.  I also can plainly see the logged off message in the lower left of the title screen.  The only times I've ever logged in was to enter my DVD code and download the extras (Shale, Blood Dragon Armor, Memory Band and Wardens Keep).

Regarding Steam and DRM: At least DAO doesn't make you use Steam just to install your retail DVD's.  I recently had this experience with Modern Warfare 2.  I absolutely hate the idea that I am dependent on a service to install the games I've paid for.  And don't say that Valve will release patches etc. should they cease to exist.  They have never made any such claim.

[mkess]

Sblade wrote...

RageGT, this isn´t the way to go. Publishers need their software protected. Gamers need that the protection works effectively and without being invasive.

That is so wrong.

No gamer needs any "protection". Even effectivly working protections make the overall system instable. 

And the reason for Protection is simply to give the publisher at least two weeks, before the first cracked copies are out. In case of Dragon Age, and many other games, the first copies were out some days BEFORE the official release date. That means, that ONLY regular customers were annoyed with DRM issues. All the other ones have NO problems at all.

And that is wrong. The more DRM they make, the less paying custumers they got.

I, as example, will never ever buy a game from Steam. I really hate the auto update "feature" and the forced online connection in single player games. The same for Games for Window Live. I kicked this out off Fallout 3, includiing all the worthless achievements, because this crashed my system regulary.

[Ghandorian]

hrrm I'm not getting this. I turned my connect on startup option off the other day and have played three or four sessions with none of this supposed lost content. Are you guys sure about all this.



Playing the PC Collectors edition since launch day.

[SPiercey]

The DRM is in the DLC, not DA itself.



No matter where you bought DA all the DLC still has DRM.

[SPiercey]

mkess wrote...
I, as example, will never ever buy a game from Steam. I really hate the auto update "feature" and the forced online connection in single player games. The same for Games for Window Live. I kicked this out off Fallout 3, includiing all the worthless achievements, because this crashed my system regulary.

Steam works just fine offline and the auto update feature can be turned off. It's not Steam's(Valves?) fault that you are uninformed.

[Sabin Stargem]

In my case, I bought the Digital Deluxe version of Dragon Age from Impulse, but had horrible results. It took a very long time to download the game and just as long to verify it, but the real problem was after installation: I got a "Mismanaged Configuration", which had no apparent solution from the self-help threads I visited. After trying 3 or 4 different things, I went ahead and installed a crack. Lo and behold, the game started.



I find it aggravating that if I went ahead and fully pirated the game, that I would have saved myself much grief and a good $52 bucks. If anyone from EA or Bioware is reading this post, PLEASE discover and correct these issues before releasing a game! I have no desire to be a technician or faith healer, I just want to be a gamer.

[Kolaris8472]

Shensi wrote...

Am I on /v/? What's happening to this forum.

This...leave the memes where they belong.

[Sblade]

mkess wrote...

Sblade wrote...

RageGT, this isn´t the way to go. Publishers need their software protected. Gamers need that the protection works effectively and without being invasive.

That is so wrong.

No gamer needs any "protection". Even effectivly working protections make the overall system instable. 

And the reason for Protection is simply to give the publisher at least two weeks, before the first cracked copies are out. In case of Dragon Age, and many other games, the first copies were out some days BEFORE the official release date. That means, that ONLY regular customers were annoyed with DRM issues. All the other ones have NO problems at all.

And that is wrong. The more DRM they make, the less paying custumers they got.

I, as example, will never ever buy a game from Steam. I really hate the auto update "feature" and the forced online connection in single player games. The same for Games for Window Live. I kicked this out off Fallout 3, includiing all the worthless achievements, because this crashed my system regulary.

Point one. It was 360 version the that was leaked before the official release. And this happens in many 360 games. This is completely off topic for this forum.

Gamers don´t need the protection of course, but if we have to live with them better to have a bridge to talk between DRM vendors than none.

The other option is to have less paying customers, which doesn´t seem to happen atm. So we have to keep the dialog and mind open for ideas.

Testing different DRM´s and putting seals on evaluating them should be a good way to start. Because tbh, we have a lot of people to educate about DRM´s, both publisher´s executives and gamers. 

[DragonRageGT]

This would work beautifully, imho! And no online b/s, dvd check, etc...

The CP method must fulfill these requirements:

• anonymous (no personal information revealed)
• secure (not significantly worse than established CP methods)
• obstacle-free (game owners are not required to burden themselves with CP, like inserting DVDs or online activation)
• customer rights must not be curtailed (as in online activation, for example, where you effectively loose ownership of your game)
• rewards for paying customers (game owners should be rewarded for buying the game instead of being punished by burdensome CP mechanisms)
• image bonus (the publisher who uses this system shall be able to be proud of it and let the community celebrate him for it)

Concept]

Ok, what is the idea? Simple:

• The publisher thinks of several algorithms for serial number verification. So we have the algorithms A[1], A[2], A[3], ..., A[n]. The algorithms must be independant from each other. So it must be guaranteed that knowing A[1] to A does not allow you to correctly guess A[i+1].
• Each serial you put in a game's box passes all of these algorithms (an easy way to do this would be encryption against multiple keys). A serial S is valid if A[1](S) = A[2](S) = A[3](S) = ... = A[n](S) = true. Only
  valid serials are shipped with the game, of course.
• When the user starts the game he will be asked for the serial. Whatever he enters (let's call it s) is checked against A[1]. And [i]only against A[1]. So if A[1](s) = true, the game continues. Otherwise, it prints an error message. This is important because it prevents the user from accidently typing the wrong number. If he makes a mistake, A[1] will notice and the game will tell him that the serial he entered was not correct.
• While the player plays the game, the serial he entered is checked against the other algorithms on several occasions. After the first hour, A[2] will check the serial. After two hours, it will be A[3], and so on. Every hour another algorithm. It does not has to be time-based you can also check on events within the game.
  Whenever A[i](s) for 1 =< i =< n returns false, the game will activate a hidden trap and the player gets stuck.
• Compromised serials (on the net) will be blacklisted via patches.

Modifié par RageGT, 14 novembre 2009 - 05:27 .

[Sblade]

RageGT wrote...


Blade, I ain't complaining about DRM whatsoever, although they don't work right since cracked images are all over for anything you want... and those who use that and never buy the legit copy are way less bothered by DRM than legit owners. (if that is the term because as I read somewhere, we don't own the game, just a licence to it).

I said I already paid twice for a game and I still don't have the game!!! Not the one I want anyway... I am playing it but I had to resort to torrent and i don't feel bad at all because I did bought the game, twice, although I'm getting a refund for first one since it is published on EA website that their download manager does not work on a 64 bit OS. (at least on Win 7 64... not sure about Vista but I ain't downgrading my pc for that)

So, again, I didn't threatened the Devs for having DRM but for having a publisher that can't deliver the game globally, as advertised. (EA Brazil went from the 6th to 13th and now who knows... they say in their site that game is in stores now but that is not true)

And if you don't release something globally, on the Internet Age, you're likely to loose a lot off sales, because people will have the goods on the day of the first release no matter how!

As for DRM, I'll check those sites and please try and read above links, posted by a german guy, moderaton on World off Risen website, that I think works in the area and has some brilliant ideas and the right approach to it.

foobar's thoughts on copy protection
foobar77.spacequadrat.de/thoughts-on-cp.html

Myths about DRM
foobar77.spacequadrat.de/drm-myths.html

A proposal for a better copy protection system
foobar77.spacequadrat.de/fsncp.html

RageGT

I already know long time ago many of the concepts you put on the link. Unfortunately, investors, shareholders, executives and gamers have near zero idea about DRM´s and CP´s. The publishers are determined to use the DRM´s, at least for now. While they use it, why don´t make our coexistence with them easier? A place where the gamers can directly speak to the DRM vendor and provide solutions would be productive.

The previous deaf ears we have made of: "DRM is useless" that the gamers says, and the "DRM is needed" by the publishers have gone no way.

At least, we could give it a try, don´t you think?

[bmatt17]

I also just confirmed retail version will work with DLC as well offline. Modem unplugged. I think what the DLC is doing is validating with the DA servers IF is detects an active internet connection. If no connection is detected it just lets you play after the initial activation when you downloaded/installed it. This is ok to me and I absolutely hate DRM as I've been burnt too many times. In fact the only reason I payed for Dragon Age is because it only had a disc check. As someone who has almost completely left PC gaming and moved onto consoles due to DRM issues I'm used to having to have the disc.



As long as there isn't a time limit to how long you can play offline I'm ok with it. If I go to play one day and it won't let me w/out logging in though I'll be p*ssed

[bmatt17]

Rage:

While the player plays the game, the serial he entered is checked against the other algorithms on several occasions. After the first hour, A[2] will check the serial. After two hours, it will be A[3], and so on. Every hour another algorithm. It does not has to be time-based you can also check on events within the game.

Whenever A[i](s) for 1 =< i =< n returns false, the game will activate a hidden trap and the player gets stuck..





Wait, are you saying you'd be ok with the game basically breaking if the DRM doesn't pass it's check? That is the absolute worst idea I've heard, yeah no possibility of screwing over your paying customers with that bit of code in the game. Not to mention it'd still be cracked, and if you were a legit user and you got stuck you'd think the game was bugged. You'd possible spend hours on tech support, updating drivers and reinstalling trying to resolve the "problem"

[Drogo45]

mkess wrote...



I, as example, will never ever buy a game from Steam. I really hate the auto update "feature" and the forced online connection in single player games. The same for Games for Window Live. I kicked this out off Fallout 3, includiing all the worthless achievements, because this crashed my system regulary.

Hear the words of the moron......

Modifié par Drogo45, 14 novembre 2009 - 05:49 .

[slmisfit]

Mopreme_ wrote...

Click bottom left where it says logged in, should take you to account options.

Yeaaaaah... nope. That must be for the digital versions only, because the only thing remotely close to "account options" when I click
the log in at the bottom left is the "Manage account / forgot password"
button, which just takes me to a password recovery page on EA.

bmatt17 wrote...

I think what the DLC is doing is validating with the DA servers IF is detects an active internet connection. If no connection is detected it just lets you play after the initial activation when you downloaded/installed it.

I never thought to try totally disconnecting my internet... which I don't want to have to do just because I want to play DA:O without using my internet connection.  I'm gonna try it to see if it works, though.

Edit: AND THERE IT IS. If you have no internet connection active, you don't have to log in to access your DLC. If your internet connection is active, you HAVE to log in. Still don't see how this annoys anyone except legitimate players, because smart pirates would be playing with their internet disabled anyway.

Well, at least now I know why I absolutely have to log in. *sigh*

Modifié par blasphemae, 14 novembre 2009 - 05:55 .

[Gvaz]

I have no issues with steam, in fact I have a ton of steam games, but I bought dragon age off Impulse since I could get the collector's edition for $52 after a coupon (one of my friends got it for $15 from stacking impulse coupons). I agree the registration the OP had was retarded, mostly because I threw in teh CD key on this site which ****ed it up (lots of impulse users had this issue)



I just went and downloaded the retail version to get around the retarded validation and played that while I waited for EA to fix their stupid verification system. I mean, I had paid for the game, do whatever works that's available to you.



In short, if you have verification issues and you've paid for the game just download the retail version and go for it.

[DragonRageGT]

bmatt17 wrote...

Rage:
While the player plays the game, the serial he entered is checked against the other algorithms on several occasions. After the first hour, A[2] will check the serial. After two hours, it will be A[3], and so on. Every hour another algorithm. It does not has to be time-based you can also check on events within the game.
Whenever A[i](s) for 1 =


Wait, are you saying you'd be ok with the game basically breaking if the DRM doesn't pass it's check? That is the absolute worst idea I've heard, yeah no possibility of screwing over your paying customers with that bit of code in the game. Not to mention it'd still be cracked, and if you were a legit user and you got stuck you'd think the game was bugged. You'd possible spend hours on tech support, updating drivers and reinstalling trying to resolve the "problem"

Those are just excerpts from a nice article. I've linked it in a previous post. You might want to read it. There is no way a paying customer would get a fail check and for the game to be cracked it would take a long long time as ****** would have to actually play the game and discover all the check points. But then again, it would be much troublesome than it is today...

The European DVD version was available in torrent on the eve of release too, not only 360's. And as a musician who knows a little about real piracy on music CD, where ppl sell cheap copies on the street, in most cases the leak is from someone high inside the label company who is part of some mafia organization.

I doubt that it is any different in gaming as the real piracy is cheap copies being sold in the streets all over the world and not some loser who can't afford the cost and d/l it for his own personal usage, sometimes until he can afford it and purchase a legit copy. He wouldn't have bought the game if it weren't available for d/l anyway so it is not any loss for the publishers, but those who buy cheap physical copies are indeed causing loss as that money is going to a criminal organization i/o the legit copyright owners.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for online checking,  we can just right click and disable Local Area Network at Control Panel\\Network and Internet\\Network Connections and enable it later if it is such a big deal to authenticate DCL's online... or lock internet on any good firewall.

The problem with online checking, I believe, is that may come one day that there will be no one on the other side to authenticate thus leaving us with a broken game... or one cannot afford internet connection anymore for some reason...

[Seifz]

Maybe you shouldn't use Steam to purchase your games? This doesn't sound like a BioWare problem to me.

[Lundh0lm]

well, being a software developer myself, the whole idea of DRM isnt that strange to me... but it differs in what ever product it gets stuck on in my opinion. big corporate programs that costs many many thousands of $ should be protected by any means nessesary - and little things that costs below 100 bucks shouldnt have anything but >PERHAPS< a serial to verify it OFFLINE with.



What game publicers need to get into their heads is, that pirates WILL crack the game, no matter how many billions you spent on protecting your investment... now I aint saying that you shouldnt protect that investment, its only natural that you want to - its just not needed... as I have said in other topics on this matter, thoes who download the game most likely had NO intention on buying it in the first place, and hence no money is lost (one could argue that you actually GAIN by piracy, since more people will talk about your product, and perhaps even buy it, even if they at first didnt intent to ). legitimate people will buy the game if its good no matter what, why would you then hassle them with troublesome online verifications and other bull**** that only excists so the corporate world can make even more money?



I just dont get it hehe, but I prolly never will hehe :|